Skinny kung fu kid........advice and opinions?

[Mizong_Kid]

ok....basically i am a 20 yr old guy who is skinny and luvs kung fu.wen i was younger i was hesitant to start kungfu coz i was afraid of being weak and small....so last year i decided its time to get on with it. i found a style and a genuine master to teach it.

i am learning mizong aka my-jong and have proceeded from the basics (tan tui) to forms....i like the array of kicks we have to do as well....they are so cool....mayb unpractical but look good.

i realise u dont have to be strong and muscular to be good at kung fu......u get stronger as u go along....

basically i just want to increase my bodyweight but cant seem to be putting on the fat quickly enough.i aint annorexic...i eat regularly but cant seem to be putting on the fat!


anyone been in a similar situation or could advise me?

[Vyvial]

Go to a body building site, learn about protein and supplements and how to eat massive while you work out.

[psycho monk]

I use to suffer from the same thing but when i began bodybuilding my trainer gave me a tip that even shocked him when he saw the results , Eat a can of tuna a day (one can of tuna equals one pound of muscle) 2. if you cant eat tuna eat a cup of ice cream after every workout it will give you the nice mass you want and your training will cut the fat try it for atleast a month you should see results

[Lung Hu Pai]

The guys here gave me this advice a long time ago and its helped a lot, they said to train hard, eat hard, and sleep hard, and it worked amazing, lol.

[Vyvial]

another thought...

If you style has a lot cardio type movements or anything that burns a lot of calories talk to your sifu about slowing them down. You already don't eat enough to put muscle on yet, and it is actually really hard to get enough good calories on a massive eating cycle (5-6000 calories a day) so think about all the calories you are burning by working out. That means you are negative all the calories that you burned by training, which means you have to eat even more. I went through it years ago, I never could get enough to put on the size I wanted.

Also, you are gonna have to lift weights... if you want any advice from me on programs or whatever you can e-mail me but you can find all that info on-line and in Body Building forums. Just do a lot of homework, don't overtrain, and get lots of rest so that your body can grow.
If you have money, drink as much protein as you can, it's a lot easier than eating all that food. Tuna is great and so is cottage cheese right before bed but it gets so old (of course I still eat it all). You need different kinds of protein for different things. You can mix your ice cream into your shakes post workout but there are better things for glucose recovery than ice cream which is just bad for you

Whey is a quick protein--- take before and after working out
Casein is a slow protein--- take before bed

I could go on all night, there are lots of other things I could go into, but I could be doing kung fu instead of wasting all night on here...

[Ford Prefect]

Tuna will help, but it sure does not equal 1 pound of muscle. A can of tuna contains around 40 grams of protein, no carbs, no fat.

Mizong_Kid,

Basically, you are what is called a hard gainer. You have a faster than normal metabolism, so you have to eat more and smarter than the average guy as well as lift weights. Your muscles won't grow unless you stress them enough and force them to adapt. That's all bodybuilding and powerlifting is: creating the right stimulus so your body undergoes a very specific adaptation. Hey, it's the way of life.

A very simple formula for gaining weight and mass would be this:

Total calories you eat per day = your weight x 18

These calories should be split into 40% protein, 30% carbohydrates, 30% fat.

This is where is gets kind of complicated: protein = 4 calories/gram; carbs = 4 calories/gram; fats = 9 calories/gram.

For example, on a 3,000 calorie/day diet, that would be 1,200 calories from protein, 900 calories from carbs, 900 calories from fat.

To find out how many grams of each this translates to, it would be 1,200/4 = 300 grams of protein; 900/4 = 225 grams/carbs; 900/9 = 100 grams of fat.

You will also want to split this intake into 6 meals. 1 meal right before and after your workout, and the other 4 meals every 3 hours until bed. This will prevent your body from going catabolic (nutrient deprived) because it will start to eat your muscle at that point.

To lift weights, a simple 3 day split would do the trick.

Day 1: Chest and arms
-Chest -Tricep -Bicep -Forearm
*3-4 sets of 8-12 reps each

Day 2: OFF

Day 3: Legs
-Goodmorning/Squat/or Deadlift -Calve raises (calves = 3xreps)
*3-4 sets of 8-12 (24-36 reps for calves)

Day 4: OFF

Day 5: Back and Shoulders
-Pull-ups & rows -Overhead presses
*3-4 sets of 8-12 reps

Day 6&7: OFF

Do 3 - 6 sets per body part and concentrate on the lowering motion. Count to 3 when lowering the weight, and to one when raising it. This is what we call a 3/0/1 tempo.

This may seem complicated to start, but it's the most basic protocol to follow for gaining muscle mass. If it was easy, then you'd see a lot more people walking around with muscle. You will have to alter the number of calories needed depending on how much cardio you are doing. The more cardio you do, the difficulty of gaining weight goes up exponentially.

Dear other forum members,

I know this is a body building routine ::gasp::. :) I just think it is an easier way to gain muscle mass than to explain the powerlifting conjugated periodization approach. He will gain a little fat on this program, but there is no way to gain a significant amount of muscle without some fat too.

[Suntzu]

ahhhh… I remember being 20 and real skinny… now 6 years later I am still skinny… I'm stronger and more developed… but skinny none the less…

welcome to the wonderful world of high metabolism… be happy about it… u could be the dude sueing McDonalds… but if your really hellbent on getting big… eat massive amounts of GOOD food… exercise with weights as stated above… and have lots of patience…

but now that I see my friends that WAS in good shape at 20, now at 26/27 look like, well, fat out of shape slobs… skinny is a not such a bad thing after all…

and please… if u do the squats/good morning/ deadlifts whatever… have somebody teach u the correct form…

[sticky fingers]

There is a guy in my wing chun class about 20, about 6'3 tall and skinny as a chopstick. We started together but he is ahead of me after I took 2 years off.

He isn't concerned about doing weights or gaining muscle. Why?
because his kung fu is so good he can whoop almost anyone's ass even some of the seniors.
Just bear in mind if you concentrate too much on gaining muscle, it could affect your kung fu adversely.

[Vyvial]

good advice but some things are not about kung fu. Maybe he just wants to improve his physical image for himself. That's why I did it for so many years, now all I care about is Kung Fu so I lift weights rarely. It all depends on what someone wants.

[Ford Prefect]

Sun Tzu is correct that you should learn proper form before lifting heavy weights. It's always best to avoid unnecessary injury. Just keep at it. I'm as hard gainer as they come, but through simple and well thought out diet/workout plans, I've gotten a pretty impressive amount of strength and a good physique. I was 6' 142 lbs when I was 20!

[Mizong_Kid]

thanks people for the advice........

ford perfect thanks..... i will email u to ask some specific questions.....the idea of lifting weights is totally new to me.tho i hav a fren who lifts weights all the time so i wll ask him 2moro about how to do things properly.shud one do reps to the point with maximum muscle fatigue is felt or jus enough to feel tired?

sun tzu its good to hear frmo someone in a similar position.....obviously strength is important in kung fu.....if there is no strength there is no external power.....in some respects i look at sum of the other students in my class......some are a bit "plum"....and so their motion looks a bit restricted.....whereas i find it easy in motion to perform the stances in my forms....

thought ultimiately i just want to be like students who are of "normal size"........not skinny! and not fat! i dont wanna be muscley.........i just wanna b normal.

[Suntzu]

NOT TO FAILURE… being sore and doing KF is not fun…even tho u will be sore when u first start lifting… don’t strive for pain… don’t let the muscle heads talk u into doin 1 more… knock out your 6/8/10 whatever reps and get up… the weight should be a challenge but u should be able to lift... if u need help its too heavy...

what I like to do sometime is ( 1. Keep a journal ) start out with a weight that I can lift only 6 times before I struggle and do my reps with that… than after a few weeks at that weight I strive to do 10 reps… ie. Week 1 lets say bench press I do 3 of 6 reps... week 2, 3 of 7 week 3, 3 of 10... after i hit 10 i step the weight up and start with 6 reps again... thats what i like to do...

[Ford Prefect]

I don't think training to failure on a regular basis is a good idea. It does have its place though depending on your goals. Normally, it is optimal to leave 1 or 2 reps "in the chamber". ;) When training for mass, training to failure once every 3 or 4 weeks isn't bad. To do so all the time would be detrimental to your development.

[IronFist]

Yes, listen to Ford Prefect.

1 can of tuna = one lb muscle? Okaaaay...

Dude, be careful if you go to bodybuilding forums. Most of them suck, and are full of people who don't know what they're talking about.

A good one is anabolicextreme.com . A bad one is t-mag.com. Another good one is dragondoor.com, but it's not really bodybuilding, and you probably won't get the kind of answers you're looking for there.

Simple things to remember are these:

1lb = 3,500 calories. Since a can of tuna is no where near 3,500 calories, one can of tuna obviuosly does NOT equal one pound.

Going from that, you need to eat more calories than you burn to gain weight. And similarly, you need to burn more than you eat to lose weight.

Another good rule to remember is to eat at least 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight per day. So if you're trying to gain muscle and you weigh 150lbs, eat at least 150g of protein per day.

Don't eat tuna too much, because it has high levels of mercury in it. Cans of salmon are more expensive, but better for you in the long run.

IronFist

[psycho monk]

oookkkaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy,

so tuna does not equal one pound of muscle **** Men's Health mag always fibbing < Iron Fist let me know when you write your own health catalog so i can subscribe

[Serpent]

psycho monk, you really should learn to shut up and listen to people that know better. People that really know better.

Men's Health magazine, along with all those other glossies, are usually wrong. People like you are the reason they are so successful and the general population is so unhealthy.

[IronFist]

Hey, play nice.

Most "health magazines" are pretty useless, though.

Iron Fist let me know when you write your own health catalog so i can subscribe

Haha, if I did no one would buy it. Do you know why? Because it wouldn't promise things like "get ripped abs in 4 weeks" and other things that aren't possible for 95% of the population. It would also only be one issue long because I wouldn't recycle the same bull**** over and over each month. It also wouldn't appeal to the mainstream fitness audience.

Oh well. Things tend to suck and lower in quality as they become mainstream. Fitness information seems to be no exception.

IronFist

[Mizong_Kid]

the thing is.........exercising with weights now n then and hence working up the appetite is all fine..........

but the thing that hinders me is the busy life we all live....i have to go uni on most days, i have a part time job which takes out 16 hours of my week.....studying,....which i have not done much off......


so sometimes fitting in a filling meal on the go is tough.......i mean i would love to have a full plate of bacon,eggs,sausages and tomatoes,beans every mornin for breakfast........but most time i end up having cereal,toast and some good old raVIOli (hot version of tuna n pasta combined)

get what i mean?

[Ford Prefect]

Mizong,

I completely understand that. The eating it takes to put on a significant amount of muscle is almost like a second job. That's the reason why most hard gainers stay skinny. It's just too **** tough to put on the weight. You can always just let yourself mature into it. When I was 20 I was a natural 142. Now at 25 without the eating schedule, I'm a natural 165. If I take a long enough break, I end up at that weight. I'm sure in another 5 years, my natural weight will go up another 20 lbs.

[Suntzu]

the only time I really gained weight was after I got out of school and was living at home… mom would cook up some food… I never ate so well in my life… and I would go to bed sometime after that… I lifted a lil weights at that time… got up to an amazing... get ready for this... 160lbs... can u believe it??? my dad started jokin me about how 'round' i was getting... so i had to turn back to MA... haven't got past 156 since... what really sucks now is that i fight at 144-149, in that range... so now after years of wanting to gain... now i HAVE to stay skinny...

[Ford Prefect]

Wow. You guys are a wirey bunch! :) I've gotten up to 195, but then I got injured and Lyme desease which made me drop 35 lbs in two weeks. That was real frusterating because it was such hard work getting to that weight. Cool thing is that after I broke my body in, now it packs on pounds a lot easier. I'm back up to 185-190 and going strong. I figure I'll level out when I'm 210-220'ish. My body fat has never risen above 9% in all this time. I measure skin folds every two weeks with calipers. Lowest was slightly under 5%. I was 160 at the time though! Heh! I'm in the process of writing a few training manuals for different approaches wirey people can take to fitness and also some general fitness ones too. I'm hoping to be selling them by the end of next year on the web.

[Suntzu]

Wow. You guys are a wirey bunch! yeah... but i can still kick azz:p

[Ford Prefect]

Hell yes!

[guohuen]

One of my favorite nicknames in the service was "wirey ba$tard).:D

[SevenStar]

luckily, we mesomorphs don't have to worry about that :p

[David]

In a rare lucid moment last night, I was thinking about this thread (I'm skinny but have lately been described as wirey which I take as a compliment :-) and I remember going through this issue with metabolism.

I used to think I had the world's fastest metabolism. Then I found out that it was more likely I had a lazy digestive system and the food I was eating wasn't getting digested properly. Suddenly, I felt a lot less ****sure.

If you think that you've been eating far too much and getting nowhere weight-wise, then it's possible that your digestive tract has become lazy. What this means is that it 'knows' that there's loads of food along any minute now and therefore doesn't feel it necessary to work its socks off gettin gthe nutrients and energy from what is already in 'processing'.

The way out of that is to eat less, thus giving your digestive system a rude awakening as it receives requests from the body that it can't fulfil...

If you suspect that, speak to a doctor - don't base your actions on my strange thinking and vague memory.

-David

[IronFist]

Well, it's true that the more you eat the faster your metabolism goes. But as far as I know it still digests all the food. I dunno.

IronFist

[Ford Prefect]

Yeah. What that sounds like is that when you eat a lot and often, your metabolism will increases due to the fact that your body will be used to receiving sustanance regularly and will not feel need the need to store food energy for later use. Also, it takes energy to digest all that food (so digestion itself burns energy and gives off heat).

When you reduce how much you eat, your body will eventually adapt to this stimuli too. It will slow your metobism and store energy (fat) for later use. This is why when bb'ers "cut up" they cycle their caloric intake because too long at a reduced intake level will have the reverse effect that they are looking for.

What it all comes down to is the adaptability of the human body and the fact that you must stay one step ahead of it in order to progress towards any of your goals.

[Mizong_Kid]

would it be a fair comment to say......

that jet li gets his strength from his kung fu........whereas donnie yen focuses more on weight training????

i dont kno wher i read this......jus wanted some opinions........


because i hav heard of and read.....even seen skinny guys who are good at kung fu......and wud be a capable match for a stocky plum thug off the street......

[SevenStar]

It's not fair to say that as you don't know what either of their training regimens are like.

As for the skinny person thing, yes a skinny person has the potential to beat a larger one, but you can't guarantee anything in a fight. Training only helps to even the odds for you. There are WAY to many factors involved to make such blanket statements. Heck, the thug off the street could have wrestled in school. The thug in the street may be a golden gloves boxer. The thug may have experience in some other MA. The thug could have friends, a gun or a knife.

[guohuen]

I'll second that. Having been on both sides of the bars I can attest that many street thugs have some training. A lot box, as mentioned some golden gloves, some grapple and some practice karate, many lift weights and some run. Heck, I don't know where people get the ridiculas notion that only good people train or train hard. Most prisons in the U.S. are like health spas and gyms. You get slow, you get caught, you go to prison, you train, you spar, you hear lectures, you go back out on the street smarter, leaner and meaner.