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Bruno Lima Roch
11-05-2002, 06:34 PM
Dearfellows, my si-fu Marcello Teixeira asked me to post this topic here. Weare opened to talk about this in our site:
www.xingyitchuen.com.br

" Although I can read and speak in English, I have much difficulty to write due to the grammatical errors. For this reason I asked for to my student Bruno Lima Rocha to post this text in my name.I receive many e_mails diverselly asking about methods from trainings, besides following forums constantly where I notice the great conflict among practitioners of “internal” styles in relation to this subject.

I will express here for the practitioners of Xing Yi my truth, based on the more common questions that I receive.

1) External and internal: They are two parts of one same currency. Only internal it is a kind of therapy and only external it is not Xing Yi. The two have that to be in harmony. Let the theory for the theoreticians leaves and letìs train and practice hard. Xing Yi is a tremendous style of combat, and as everything in the life its development is based on the PRACTICE.

2) Fighter: A fighter without fighting doesn’t exist, if you want to learn to swim you must swim, if you want to learn to dance you must dance, if you want to learn to fight you must have to fight. The whole thing is simple, so don’t complicate.

3) Conditioning: It is basic for those who wants to fight. Catch something that is hard as a football-helmet, punch it for some times with all force and you will see that your hands hurt a lot. Imagine yourself in a middle of a fight, where you do not have time to prepare and to condition and take account that the target is in movement, the possibilities to hurt the hands, beating somebody with much force are enormous. This is valuable for any natural weapon that you wants to use. Ask for some friend who trains Thai or Kyokushin to give some shin-kicks to you and try to defend them. If your arms are not prepared they will not support the repeated impact. There is a detail, don’t come with theories to leave it and step-aside and to deviate because not always it is possible. Many times the thing happens so fast, that at the right moment the only skill is to block and if you are really good, then you will counter-attack simultaneously. Condiotionate all of your natural weapons in a way that they don’t leave you alone and without resourcesto in the time when i’s necessary.

4) Timing and reflex: To fight is to have reflex, you can’t think a lot in a middle of a combat. Or you are really prepared or you’re not.. Theories, movements, conditioning, forms, methods of Chikun or any other method serves for nothing without reflex and mental condition to enter in combat. Reflex is acquired with training for Toming and Reflex and/or sparring with your train-mates. When you feel prepared look for friendly people friends of other styles and spare with them.

5) Techniques: The best technique is the one that you have conditions to apply now, the remaining portion is remaining portion. If you have an old car and your neighbor has a Ferrari, for you its is better because you enter and drive whenever you want to. You must work to also have a Ferrari, but at this moment you can count on your old car. The only way to use one technique in combat is training exhaustingly its basic mechanism and its forms of application. A great difference between knowing and dominating a technique. To know the techniques is for curious, to dominate techniques is for serious practitioners.

6) Mix styles: I can’t understand this crazyness of the practitioners of Chinese Martial Art to learn and to practice at the same time, styles that has the same objective. If you train a style of fight in stan-up position (as a striker) like Xing Yi, what is the advantage will be practising at to practice at the same time another style of total different biomechanics and that also fight in stan-up (striking)? I will choose one and I dominate it. In case that you it wants to mix two styles, then I will choose one that belongs to a different universe, as, for example, a style of grappling (ground-fight and throws).

7) Ability: When somebody enters in some forum doubting about the functionality of a style, this serves to alert the practitioners that something is going wrong. On the reality the opinion of this person was based in what she/he has seen. If the Xing Yi this not being respected as a combat style, something is going very wrong. Or this pal has never really seen the Xing Yi martial art or the source that he saw is weak and imcompetent. If you practice a style for more than an yearand still ain’t have the conditions to defend yourself, you must change your school and goes to a serious one.

Best regards, from Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Marcello Teixeira"

Xebsball
11-06-2002, 01:31 PM
ttt

to the top

TaoBoy
11-06-2002, 05:06 PM
Bruno,

Nice post - but why did your sifu want it published here?
He makes some interesting comments - but I think I have missed the point.


Cheers,
Adam

MaFuYee
11-06-2002, 10:21 PM
marcello;

i understand the general sense of confusion and dismay you must feel, reading the silliness that goes on, here on this 'wonderful' forum. - but, be not concerned about it; just accept it, and it will pass. - don't get stuck on it, thinking you can change anyone or anything. - you can't; except yourself.

you may think that you can, but... really... you can't.

it doesn't matter how intelligently, rationally and clearly you post, or how well you make your argument, they are only words. - words that will be twisted and corrupted by the evil that lurks on this forum....muhahhahaa!

actually, it's not 'evil' per se, it's just the natural shortcomming of words, in their ability to truely communicate understanding; and people's individual unique interpretations, based upon the entirety of their life's experiences, through which they will interpret the words.

- no one truely understands another.

jon
11-07-2002, 12:17 AM
Bruno Lima Roch

I really enjoyed reading that, its always nice to know that people still take there study seriously.

MaFuYee
There is really only one thing that can be said about such an elequently written insightfull post.


Dude that post 'like' TOTALY rocked , I 'like' know TOTALY where your coming from MAAAAAAN:)

Merryprankster
11-07-2002, 07:17 AM
**** fine post! No bull****, just reality.

Lovely!

Nevermind
11-07-2002, 08:05 AM
Word.

guohuen
11-07-2002, 09:50 AM
It was good. Yes, very very good.

Bruno Lima Roch
11-10-2002, 04:51 PM
Dear friends,
this post was just to socialize all of the members about is goin'on in the internal forums, oriented for those who parctice he self-named internal arts (like us in Xing Yi).
Best regards,Bruno

TaoBoy
11-10-2002, 06:23 PM
Thanks. It was a good post.

Zbloff
11-11-2002, 06:10 AM
Right on the money.
It should be put on a wall and read by everyone.
Hmm.. wait... it just has :p ;)

scotty1
11-11-2002, 06:26 AM
I like this bit:

A fighter without fighting doesn’t exist, if you want to learn to swim you must swim, if you want to learn to dance you must dance, if you want to learn to fight you must have to fight. The whole thing is simple, so don’t complicate.

:)

SifuAbel
11-11-2002, 02:33 PM
Great post all in all.

I have to disagree to part of #6. Striking fighting is multi ranged and has many permutations. I think its a good thing to be able to "roll with the changes" and not get stuck to the "rules" of one striking style that might be to your detriment.

Also, muscle memory is not a one track meduim. You can have more than one bio mechanical messege in memory. Otherwise we wouldn't be able to do anything else except walk. A muscician could only hope to learn one instrument and one song and not walk.

Henrique Mota
11-11-2002, 07:07 PM
"Sifu" Abel, you have missed some points, I think you heve "slightly" changed the balls. Unless you are a Martial Arts movement's collector, then I'm the guy who has made a mistake. :rolleyes:

Can you tell me what is the difference between a punch made with a Panther fist, another one with a clenched fist, and other one with a ****'s beak(that one with the entire fist clenched, except the forefinger is like a Panther fist)? Area of effect, strength, speed? The right answer is: appearance. Aplicattion? Maybe. But it doesn't matter, because all of then are straight forces, all of then do the same thing: hurt your enemy. What is the value of a Panther fist, if your style doesn't have this kind of technique, or if your Panther fist is not well-conditioned? Why do I have to learn something that I won't use, that does not belong to my fighting universe, to the stuff that I'm used to do? Every fighting style have all the tools that allow you to defend yourself against any enemy, you don't need to learn anything else. Then, I make a question. Why people are searching for another styles, like an injured man looking for crutches? It's a mistake; a mistake that the BJJ guys made, just to give you an example, since I know many of them. They spend hours and hours in BJJ academies learning... Guess what? BJJ, of course. They keep taking people down, and it goes on and on and on... And why? Because they are specialists. They never needed to spend hours doing kati from different styles, and waiting for the day that "my master will teach me the secret to beat any man down"... Ah, but many BJJ guys train boxing or Thai boxing... Yes, but just a little. They already know they are specialists, and will only rely on BJJ. Some of then do this to help then avoid being knocked out in the "taking down" process (some guys do cross-training and are very good at it, but the best were, still are, and will always be the specialists). You are just a specialist in a martial art if you train that style only, and a lot, and in a complete way, facing reality. And with a teacher that really has "know how": know how to beat a man down in a fast and objective way, know how to fight, and know how to teach. A real fighter trust in what he has learned, he must do, or he won't survive. How do you expect to be a martial arts expert if you also train another different style? A day has just 24 hours; one third of then are spent sleeping. And in society nowadays, almost everybody works for a living. To the ones that like stories... Tell me, the great guys from martial arts history: do they had spent their time learning hundreds of forms, or specializing in an unique style? You have more knowledge than me in that subject. Bring me the answer. And Abel, it is not about rules: in a real fight, you don't have rules. It is about survival. And I don't like the idea of playing funny with it.

And, please, don't be such a fool... Of course you can have more than one biomechanical message in memory. Marcello never said that people just have one. What he meant about this will be answered with an example.

The Choy Li Fut style is a style that depends basically (I mean BASICALLY) in round forces and wide movements; Xing Yi Quan has a totally different way about force generation. A XYQ guy beats with his entire body, using what is called a "monoblock structure", allied with the "half step" footwork system. If you still haven't noticed, both have a different biomechanic from one to another. How could a XYQ fighter use a Sow Choy, then? Or a CLF fighter use a Beng Quan effectively?

I hope I have made myself clear. Don't take my provocations seriously: I don't even know you. All of my friends, relatives and colleagues, and even enemies know that I'm not capable to insult anyone without a good reason. I just do this because it is necessary to "shake the people's head", and think in another point of view. Well, farewell then...

P.S.: Tadzio, right now, I'm sending you the bank check about the copyright. If you know what I mean... Hahahahahahahahahahah:D

Henrique Mota
11-11-2002, 07:15 PM
Sorry, the ****'s beak wasn't a insulting word: I meant the word that means the male bird of the common domestic fowl. I forgot it has another meaning... All of you know what it is, I don't have to tell...:o I'm really, really sorry...:(

SifuAbel
11-11-2002, 08:37 PM
First of all you can shove your condesending attitude up your arse. Instead of trying to be the big Crocks's beak, you can make a solid arguement.

And secondly "Mr." Mota . You are not going to be in ideal circumstances all the time. You will be in suituations that your repetois would benefit from haveing alternate ranges and lines and alternate stragtegies. If fact i think its more than needed to avoid being predictable.

Sometimes even you "experts"(and I use that term rather losely) need to hear something that doesn't agree with you. ( I know, it sound like something an MMA would say)

I came up with a simple disagreement and got the "brasilero emperor" in a panty twist. You don't know me, thats for sure. But this BS that somehow you know how I train or what i do is stupid. If anyone does more that one style it should be to absorb and grow as fighter. You want to see variety go to manaos and fight someone from chan kwok Kwei 's school.

I'm so sick of this South American sales tactic. First its the gracies , now its you. Its seems to be the national creed. "we da best" "we can'k be wrong".
Please, save it for the cartoons.

Ricardo XYCS
11-12-2002, 11:01 AM
Hello to you all. My name is Ricardo Gancz and I'm a student of Marcello Teixeira.

It's good when we can have a discussion in a polite manner. We shall always try to keep it that way. Sorry if Henrique's reply sounded offensive. He apologized and there's no point in going on with this.

Sifu Abel, I think the #6 was not clear, leading to diferent conclusions.

Here I want to show what Marcello always says in classes. The point in learning two styles, in our opinion is the following:

1 - The fight itself is in a rude way who gets to hit the other person in a better way and is able to take the other person out of the fight. Each style of combat, being Thai, Kyokushin, Aikido, Xing Yi or JuJitsu has its own method to win. Each style has its own biomechanic. Its own method to generate force. Its own method to evade, to defend and to strike.

The #6 meant that if you learn two styles of the same kind at the same time it will not be good for you because the methods mentioned above are diferent and it will generate a conflict inside you.

After you mastered one style and you want to extend your knowleges, there's no problem at all.

Marcello puts great emphasis in the stressing the repetitions of the movements because after lots of repetition when you face a real situation the movements will just flow. In a real fight you don't have time to think. You have to act espontaneous and you won't be able to do it if you don't train enough.

3- He always says that wheter its your kick, punch, elbow, et cetera, you have to be very well trained to really have a strong weapon when you strike.

And last he always repeat that: "There's no real truth. We don't want to be the truth. There are lots of paths. This is ours ."

Regards

Ricardo Gancz