The best diet for the internal martial artist?

[jbmmaster]

Im new to internal martial arts and i was wondering what should i eat and drink in order to suit my practices?

I was thinking about the taoist diet but im clueless as whats best? any information would be helpful.

Thank you

[Muppet]

Eat to be healthy.

Any dietary restrictions are due to religious constraints (which in reality have little to do with the IMA) or for your health.

As far I know, no one worth their salt in the internal arts circles have ever emphasized a particular diet that everybody is supposed to follow, so stick to a sensible, well-balanced diet.

You know, avoid consuming too much alcohol, processed foods, highly-fatty foods, be sure to consume enough fresh veggies and fruits on a daily basis, don't keep left-overs for more than a day, etc.

If you're really concerned, then you may want to do your research and see which foods mix with others, what nutritional deficiencies that you may have that you didn't realize, etc.

For instance, citrus fruits like oranges don't mix too well with most veggies, so it should be consumed separately and during different meals.

[stormmountain]

You should definately eat large slabs of beef, as much as you can possible cram in your mouth.

[Repulsive Monkey]

Too be honest eating a Taoist diet won't make you a Taoist, however eating a healthy diet potentially will help make you healthy. I can't say much more than eat in a balanced way, from a TCM point of view they would say the best diet is to steam all your vegetables, eat meat sparingly, maybe more of it during winter, don't eat raw uncooked foods, dont eat dairy products keep away from damp forming foods i.e. peatnut butter, all dairy, generally fatty stuff, bacon, and too many curries. Limit alcohol consumption (which just means drink sensibly) and never eat to you're full always fill the stomach up to 75% its capacity.
The Taoist diet i.e. the Chang-ming diet is stricter, it usually requires to only eat ntaural foods that have been grown naturally within 50 miles from where you live. You are not allowed to eat foods not indiginous to your immediate local or even foods which have been exported over to countries soil , so potates and tomates are out along with other foods. Potatoes are usually frowned upon because energetically their root species or Phylum is connect to the Nightshade plant and thus energetically is considered to be poisionous, hence one never really seeing potatoe in a Chinese menu.
This diet can work but you must ask yourself why you want to follow it. I personally just eat balanced, in proportion, never overdoing it, I avoid raw uncooked foods and stay away as best as possible from damp forming foods.
This seems to suit my requirements. You must choose what suits yours!

[omarthefish]

Nice to see you here Storm.

I train BAJI ! and we eat MEAT ! Especially organs and tendons and gross stuff like that.

It depends on the style I guess. I would say a true daoist wouldn't be so exteme in dietary habits. The buddhists say keeping buddha in you heart is more important than on your plate. Christ said pray before meals and don't worry too much about kosher. ( **** anti-traditonalist reformer ) - just kidding .. . don't get worked up over it.

Listen to your body. You know what you need to eat. The dietary rules are for those who can't connect their heart mind and body.

[Shadow Dragon]

Agree with everybody else.

Keep eating a heatlhy and balanced Diet.

Drastic changes in your diet will produce drastic effects in your system and some of those might not be good for you and actually hinder your training.

A lot of the old Dietary requirements like kosher and halaal were actually for health reason as badly preserved food often developed bacteria. (Salmonella in Pigs, etc.)
Or to give the Body an extra boost of stuff that is heaivly used during a certain season.
Ex.: Unagi no Hi in japan where People eat grilled eel, it is said to boost the mineral contents of the Body thus helping survive the Summer Heat.

Just my thoughts.

[Ye Gor]

Originally posted by Repulsive Monkey
... avoid raw uncooked foods... I've heard this before. Specifically in regard to 'things to avoid with certain Chinese herbal medicines'. Also, the typical Chinese response to 'Salad?' is 'I am not a cow.'

I have these questions, though:

Does 'no raw food' mean:
a) no sushi? (My accupuncturist says sushi gives you worms. Thus, many Japanese have worms. She is Chinese.)
b) no salads? (either just lettuce, or lettuce+carrots/bellpeppers/tomatoes/etc)
c) no fruits? (that doesn't sound right...)

In general, what is the reason for the 'no raw foods' rule (provided we chew them well)?

[Internal Boxer]

I have been practicing an ancient set of excersises which open up specific acupunture meridians so I only need to consume one specific food, beer.

The ancient art of Pizdhup

[Former castleva]

"You should definately eat large slabs of beef, as much as you can possible cram in your mouth."

"I have been practicing an ancient set of excersises which open up specific acupunture meridians so I only need to consume one specific food, beer.

The ancient art of Pizdhup"


:D :D :D

That made the day,thanks.

[Ye Gor]

Originally posted by Internal Boxer
I have been practicing an ancient set of excersises which open up specific acupunture meridians so I only need to consume one specific food, beer.Do you find that some types work better than others? (As in 'british lagers vs. german darks vs. coors/bud/miller) Thanks

[woliveri]

Ye Gor Wrote:
In general, what is the reason for the 'no raw foods' rule(provided we chew them well)?

If memory serves, Raw foods have a cold nature and excessive consumption will injure the spleen. Now, having said that I've had dinner with many Chinese and I have seen lot of them do eat raw foods but not too much. In fact, I was at a Chinese Qi Gong Master's house Saturday Night and they did have some like cucumber salad along with the other dishes that were there.

My take on this is from experience. Eat what your body "can burn" easily. That is, for me, I look at the digestive system like a camp fire. When the fire is weak and small you wouldn't want to put some big heavy green logs (steaks, etc ) on it. You'd want to put small twigs (broths, congee) to build it up. From there you can get the idea. Everybody's "fire" is different and so should adjust their diet accordingly. I would avoid excessively fatty and sweet foods. They will impair the digestive function and your "response time, recovery time" after training will be limited.

HTH,

[Rurouni Kenshi]

every follower of the way should read the book of danial reid
'tao of health sex and longevity'
other comment are waste of word, read it or forget it

[Liokault]

Water mellon.


It clearly states in the Tai Chi classics that all internal martial artists should only ever eat water mellon or else your really just a boxer.

[Repulsive Monkey]

Yes as mentioned it harms the Spleen if excessive raw,uncooked, cold food is consumed. Too much cold fluid obviously does excatly the same. Its true that Chinese people do eat cold and raw foods, but not too excess (if they are looking after themselves that is). Fruit is eaten sparingly too and red apples are predred over green ones due to their energetic nature. So with this last point in mind some raw uncooked foods are slightly more permissable due to their energetic nature being slightly warming or not so so cold.


By the way Danile Reid book was not very good to be honest. I bought it a few years ago and gave it away because quite a bit of the info. in there I thought was quite innapropriate, and one can find superior information to this stuff with better credentials.

[woliveri]

I agree with RM on the Danial Reid book. I looked at this one several times in the bookstore and found nothing earth shattering.

[SevenStar]

How much, if any, will your training suffer if you don't eat like this? I consume cold fluids and potatoes on a regular basis, and right now I'm in great shape. I'm not an internalist either, though.

[Repulsive Monkey]

Being either is not really relevant to the energetics of the food one eats. I think eating potatoes is ok, of course in a balanced way, however lots of cold food/drinks will definitely start to have an effect at some point unless your Jing is superior. A weakened Spleen will present such symptoms as muzzy heads, unclear and excessive pensive thought, other elemenst of inaapropriateness in ones diet, Loose stools and infrequency, distension in abdomen, could go on to effect blood capillilaries in making your bruise more easily too, and worse for women it can excessive bleeding in menstruation, it can weaken ones intention too but that kind of ties in with the muzzy heads and unclear thoughts, a classic sign can be not getting off to sleep easily because one has a hundered and one thoughts buzzing through your head, excess and inaapropriate sympathy. So there is a mix between emotional, mental and some physical symptoms that can come about just through a weakened spleen.
Some of these will take serious depletion to get there but others will come on when the spleen has been slightly weakened.
Think of it in terms of western medicine, the stomach generates a certain internal temperature to efficiently digest food at, so wne colder food enters into it it requires more energy to be expended just to reach that optimum digestion temperature hence depletion of dietry organs. The energy has to come from somewhere so you lose nergy from the body in the area of the abdomen. If this contiunes then it will be a bigger drain on the bodies reserves hence in Chinese Medicine when the spleen weakens over a period of time so then ususally does the kidneys, and if they weaken so to can the lungs and then intestines etc and so on and so on.
The balance here is just to say that when you cook food it needs a certain temperature to cook properly, because then it ends up uncooked and more effort is needed to recook it. The stomach and spleen are the same they work best when food is already warm, and if its not then it becomes weakened by trying to get it to the right temperature just so it can pass through the body and be of benefit to us.

[Ye Gor]

Hey, and what about fasting?

I know that Chinese in general frown on that, and I know a couple that said they've tried it and it messed up their stomach. But with a bit of questioning I discovered that those gyus were not aware that it's important to regularly drink water during a fast. (To dilute the acid in the stomach, plus to flush out the cr@p that enters the blood during the fast... the main reason for fasting in the first place, as I understand it.) Any one know what the Daoist take on fasting is?

Thanks.

[omarthefish]

No real health benifits to be had unless your a fat pig who lives off of McDonalds and pringles. It can also help to break certain food addictions or discover alergies. These are exceptions though.

As a form of spiritual training though . ..

I went for 6 and a half days without food once and it was a fascinating experience which made a lasting impact on my view of the world.

p.s. certain limited fasts like juice fasts or fruit only fasts may be more usefull from the health perspective.

[The Willow Sword]

Cheeseburgers,,,fries,,,beer,,,,cigarettes and a sh!tload of those little vials of red ginseng. (feel the internal power welling up).


MRTWS

[Rurouni Kenshi]

in my experience, all information contained in the reid's book were checked true. first read might not appear interesting if one doesnt experience it.
also reid didnt say eat only raw food, but prefer it, and when the whether is hot. all exess are nefast that's a point of taoism
although i may be wrong in this case monkey could you give me some other book to enlighten me?

[Tai-Jutsuka]

Originally posted by Repulsive Monkey
Too much cold fluid obviously does excatly the same.



I guess that explains why my Tai Chi dojo has a warm water dispenser.

[Repulsive Monkey]

The Sun Wen quotes that "half a day without food weakens the Qi, a whole day without food depletes the Qi". In Chinese diets fasting is not considered a good thing, it means that the Gu Qi of the food cannot mix with the Lung Qi to create Zheng Qi which then dissemnitaes into creating both internal organ Qi and the outer Wei Qi to protect the outskirts of the body from external pathogenic invasions (heat,cold,damp,dryness etc.)

There are several good books which are superior to Daniel Reids book even on a simplistic level and at a snip of the price Bob Flaws Imperials Secrets of longevity will point out what Reid hasn't but if you want something more thorough and detialed then why not borrow (or if you've got the money) just by a text book on the whole area of TCM most notably Giovanni Maciocia's Foundations/Practice of Chinese Medicine.

I do think that Reid's advocation of Colonic Irrigation is so profoundly against principles of Chinese Medicine and thought that I cannot understand why he included it in his book. It has nothing to do with Chinese Medicine and certainly has nothing to do with Taoism either. Can anyone tell me about Daniel Reids origins and credentials????

[Fu-Pow]

The Taoist rule of eating is that there are really no rules.

I think the important thing is to eat how you feel. Take notice of how food effects and how you feel after eating it.

In general, I'd say that martial artists need more protein then your average joe on the street. We work our bodies a lot harder and we need protein to rebuild and recover.

Also, you want to drink plenty of clean water, take a good multivitamin, try to eat a variety of fruits and veggies , emphasize beans and whole grains, deemphasize refined white flour, milk and refined white sugar, avoid heavily processed foods, dies and preservative chemicals.

Everything else is pretty much conjecture. Even some of the stuff I wrote is.

I was a vegetarian for a long time but always felt run down so I started including meat in my diet. Now I feel much more grounded and less tired.

However, someone else might do great on a veggie diet.

You really have to listen to your body.

[Repulsive Monkey]

Well there are rules actually. Are you familiar with Taoist Chang Ming diet. It does have rules. Taoism has rules, i.e. ways in which one does not deviate from nature and natural principles. The formlessness is the natural adherence to natural principles and when one realises this they realise that to follow nature is formless and natural hence no more rules needed. In order to deconstruct what we have construceted (i.e. how we have deviated from the Tao) some guidance and advisory means are needed. To undo a not in a piece of rope one must analyse it to a certain extent!

[HuangKaiVun]

I practice the "internal" (I hate that term) arts.

My sifu - and his sifu - were big time MEAT EATERS. This despite our Taoist influences.

The bottom line was that if we didn't, we didn't feel as good and couldn't train properly.

The internal martial arts, when used combatively, burn a huge amount of calories.

[Rurouni Kenshi]

daniel reid included fasting because its his own experience,
it wasnt included in traditional taoist medicine simply beaucause in the past they didnt need it, for they didnt eat such intoxicating food we eat in modern world
i have always experienced that, when sick, if i fast, i will recover faster, if i more solid food, i will get worse.

[Repulsive Monkey]

You say they didn't include it in it traditional Taoist teachings. As far as I know they never have and still donn't include it in their teachings. The Sun Wen is explicit about fasting. Of course less courser/denser foods can be consumed but this still instils Gu Qi being produced in order to initiate the Zheng Qi in the body. Fasting can temporarily be used when their are pathogenic toxins in the dietary tract but these can be expelled through emetic means too.

[Rurouni Kenshi]

i just find out some reasearch on ge hong saying that fasting was a curent practice for him to cleanse his spirit. he also advocate to stop the intake of grain (like others taoist) to that stage stoping grain for someone who allready dont eat meat is nearly fasting.

now i have a lot of example of indian yogi who remain healthy without eat, because of their mastering of prana (qi)
the aim of taoist in immortallity was to break free from this need and live only on plant, water and qi. i dont think its just metaphoric.


btw what did you mean by emetic means?

[Repulsive Monkey]

Emetic is that which causes one to vomit.