sparring advice?

[eulerfan]

There's a guy in my class who is just really big. Like, maybe amateur Sumo wrestler big. Any time I close the distance with him, I run the risk of him getting his arms around me and picking me up. Sifu is adamant about this, "DON'T let him pick you up." So, if he does, I make myself dead weight and get out of it pretty quick.

But, he's not quick enough to get behind me. When he lifts me, I'm sort of facing him and his arms are totally occupied.

So, I'm thinking, why shouldn't I just let him pick me up and then pound on him. Maybe there's some way to latch on so he can't really throw me or put me on the ground. I don't know. I just think there must be a way to use this to my advantage and I was wondering what ya'll thought.

And ideas?

[fa_jing]

Kick him in the nuts, it's your only chance.

[FatherDog]

1) If he is picking you up, he's presumably going to be trying to close the distance till the two of you are body-to-body. This makes it very difficult to throw effective strikes. You could manage turning elbows okay, but only as long as he hasn't gotten you off the ground.

2) In an actually situation, someone picking you up probably isn't going to just pick you up and hold you. They'd be trying to pick you up and throw you, or fall on top of you. Obviously, for someone who's amateur sumo big, taking one or two punches from you and then falling on top of you is probably an exchange he's gonna win.

This is probably why your sifu is so adamant about you not letting him pick you up in the first place. Could you describe exactly how he's gripping you to pick you up? I could offer more constructive advice if I have a clearer idea of the situation.

[eulerfan]

Yeah, I see your point. I definitely don't want to do stuff that only works sparring but would get me killed in real life. He'll just dip down a bit, wrap his arms around my waist and stand up.

It's just frustrating because I hate having to rely on kicks so heavily. Maybe this will turn into a good lesson in maintaining distance.

[fa_jing]

Your footwork is more important than your kicks. Dance to stay out of his reach.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by eulerfan
Yeah, I see your point. I definitely don't want to do stuff that only works sparring but would get me killed in real life. He'll just dip down a bit, wrap his arms around my waist and stand up.

Ah, okay. So he'd be body-to-body with you, both of you facing each other. Going deadweight makes it a little more difficult to throw you, but unfortunately it makes it easier for him to fall on you, which is certainly not a great idea. Which is not to say that going dead-weight on him is useless, but you'll have to combine it with other tactics to get yourself free and create some space. I'm speaking in generalities; I've never taken Shaolin-Do or Yang Tai Chi, or spoken extensively/crossed hands with anyone who has, so I'm not entirely sure about what specifics you've got in your toolbox.

'Boxing his ears' or going for his eyes can induce him to drop you, but if he's experienced in grabbing people as a tactic, once he gets hold of you he'll tuck his chin and turn his head a bit, which makes both of those difficult. Better would be to get your arms under his arms (instead of over) and use a raising motion to push yourself downwards till you can touch the floor again. Not having root as a striker is a bad situation to be in.

Ideally, you should be doing what your sifu recommended and not letting him grab you to begin with; being in the air and held by someone larger and stronger than you is pretty tough. In general, this means trying to be faster and have better footwork than him; using kicks and other strikes to maintain a comfortable distance, and cutting angles as he tries to advance. For specifics, keep a careful eye on the motion of his body. Practice reacting to the 'dip' as he goes down to grab you by immediately moving back/to the side and/or throwing a kick.



It's just frustrating because I hate having to rely on kicks so heavily. Maybe this will turn into a good lesson in maintaining distance.

I know what you mean. We all have our favorite techniques, and it's annoying being in a situation where we have to rely on things we don't feel as comfortable with. You're right, though; it's a good lesson to learn.

Good luck!

[eulerfan]

Thanks. This is good stuff. A lot to think about.:D

[MightyB]

Try to hit him more times than he hits you.

Also, as fa_jing says, kick him in the nuts.:D

[Ford Prefect]

Duck.

[eulerfan]

http://bounce.to/gusball

[LeeCasebolt]

In order of importance -

1) Do not close with him. If you only have problems when he's close in, keep him away, right? I know, easier said than done. This is the time to use your longest weapons - for me, leg and side kicks, but stick with whatever you do well.

2) Stay mobile. Lots of lateral and circular movement. Be wary of getting caught in corners. Don't stand and fire off long combinations. Don't use a lot of forward power in your shots. He (I assume) wants to close, so let him provide some energy by walking into your strikes. More efficient that way, anyway.

If 1 and 2 fail, and you end up in close range, things get tricky but managable.

3) HKE. I forget who came up with the term (a JKD guy from Straight Blast Gym, I think), but it stands for Headbutts, Knees, and Elbows. Your best friends when infighting. Use these *BEFORE* he gets ahold of you, to discourage further progress. Knees to the head if he goes low (remember to withdraw the leg quickly!), elbows to the face if comes high. Throw one or two to stun, then back/circle out.

If this doesn't work, well, that's why you learn to grapple.

4) Clinch techniques. A lot of variables here, depending on your relative heights, weights, and strength levels. I'm assuming you give up a fair amount of all of the above. I'm also assuming he's using an upperbody clinch rather than a leg shot. Two main options in this case - a) get your arms inside, as FatherDog said, to reduce his grip and get some leverage to push away, or b) overhook/w-hizzer (I can't beleive they edit "****zer") Take one arm, wrap it tight around one of his, deep in his armpit, so your shoulder presses down on his. At the same time, pull your hips away from his, and crossface (press your free forearm against his jaw, or under the nose). There's a sweet throw from here once you get good at it:D, but for your purposes loosening his grip so you can escape is a good start.

If there's any shuai chiao in your system, they really ought to cover this.

If that doesn't work, then you're into groundwork ('cause you're gonna get thrown).

5) Learn a guard and some standups. Too much for me to go into here, even if I were qualified to talk about it. Hell, I'm not qualified to talk about what I just said. But consider it anyway. Might help.

Lee Casebolt
(Yeah, I'm new here. Been lurking a couple weeks. Nice place you've got .)

[SevenStar]

I pretty much agree with Lee, except on the grappling thing - as small s you are, you don't wanna grapple with him. if you get into a clinch with him, you need to be trying to get out. use knees, elbows, etc. to get away.

[LeeCasebolt]

To clarify, I'm not advocating Eulerfan choose to grapple in this situation. It's obvious that grappling is not her primary skill set, and given that, the size difference is a lot to overcome.

I am saying that sometimes you don't have a choice, and in those cases it's good to know what your options are. The biggest reason to study grappling for self-defense, IMO, is the defensive work - counters, escapes, standups, etc. Yes, you don't want to clinch with the Massive Sumo Guy (MSG). That's why we have points 1-3. Sometimes, though, MSG is just going to catch you. Nice to have a backup plan.

To sum up - moving first. Striking second. Grappling third, just in case.

Lee

[SevenStar]

yeah, that sounds better. as for the grappling, I'd have her working throws that favor smaller/speedy people, like tani otoshi.

[eulerfan]

Ah. More great stuff. Thanks.

To be sure, I don't know ANYTHING about grappling. I don't think it's in this system. It might come up later, I don't know. Sifu has taught us a choice few things but later revealed that they aren't really in the system. He just saw somebody do it on UFC or something and started playing with it.

So, to be clear, ya'll all think I shouldn't rely on deadweight to get out of his hold?

[eulerfan]

BTW, welcome, Lee. :)

[FatherDog]

Yeah, relying on deadweight isn't all that good. It makes you more difficult to hold on to, but if the guy is strong enough to lift even your 'dead' weight, you haven't really improved your situation.

Pay attention to your respective centers of gravity. Since you're shorter than him, yours will be lower than his; in order to pick you up without compromising his balance, he needs to lower his CoG to be equal to or lower than yours (that's the 'dip' you were describing before he grabs you). With speed, you can take advantage of this; in going down like that, he has to bend his legs considerably, which slows him down. This is why I was saying you should practice moving back as soon as you see the dip; unless he's very, very close, you should be able to move backwards quicker than he can move forwards in that position.

If he does grab you, as a striker, your priorities are to create space between you and him, and get your feet back on the ground. To do that, you should get your arms between you and him; either by getting them under his when he grabs you, as I said, or by getting a ****zer and a crossface, as Lee recommended. In both cases, you'll be using the arms to push yourself downwards, and your legs to move your hips away from him; both of these create space and let you use leverage to make him release his grip.

And of course, do your level best to make sure you don't get grabbed to begin with. :)

[eulerfan]

I hadn't thought of that. Not only am I shorter but I'm also a woman. So, my CoG will be lower than that of a man who's height equals mine.

Just a couple of weeks ago I had a huge revelation about low, wide steps. Just that you don't move slower and maintain better awareness.

But that would give a that much more of an edge in this whole CoG thing, as well, won't it? I just have to not get frazzled and remember to do it.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by eulerfan
I hadn't thought of that. Not only am I shorter but I'm also a woman. So, my CoG will be lower than that of a man who's height equals mine.

Yup, I'd imagine so. I haven't grappled females frequently enough to know how much the difference is, though.



Just a couple of weeks ago I had a huge revelation about low, wide steps. Just that you don't move slower and maintain better awareness.

But that would give a that much more of an edge in this whole CoG thing, as well, won't it? I just have to not get frazzled and remember to do it.

Yup. Just be careful not to make the steps so wide that you give him your front leg. Although that's probably not that much of a factor in this situation.

Let us know how everything works out, after the next time you spar.

[eulerfan]

FYI, it's generally pretty big. It depends on the person, of course. The difference won't usually be much for me because I have pretty narrow hips and broad shoulders. But, if a woman has more of a child bearing physique, the difference will be significant.

But, anyway, I'll let you know how it goes.