ATTN: Grapplers

[BDKF]

I have a question about passing the guard. The art I practice has a ground component, but it is mainly defensive and the goal is to get back up on your feet. Is it possible if you are in someone's guard, to grab underneath their legs (in a cradling fashion) and step over their body with one leg so that they are in a "Boston crab" position. Again, stand up practitioner, so no flames about my ignorance. It was just a thought.

[SevenStar]

Why would you want to do that?

To answer your question though, I would say no. when you stand up, he will probably hook one of your legs and try to use his hips to force you to the ground. or he may try for an armbar or triangle, if he can trap your arm.

If he can get his legs free after he hooks your leg and turns, he may roll backwards, putting himself on the ground with your leg still hooked. he can then stand up shoot your hooked leg in the air and send you to your back.

IMO, it would take WAY too much effort to try something like a boston crab against someone with experience. I cound be wrong though, let's see what some of the other guys say.

[sweaty_dog]

I think the Boston crab is designed to get someone who wants to avoid a pin, so they will turn to their belly if they get a chance. It would be hard to turn someone who didn't want to go over IMO.

[LeeCasebolt]

Theoretically possible, but I've never been able to pull it off, and I've never seen anyone else do it, either. The handful of times I've attempted it, my partner's been strong enough abdominally to stay rigid, rather than being turned. I think if you set it up with some strikes, you'd have more success. Low percentage technique, though. I'd recommend focusing on basic passes and leg locks over something like the crab.

Of course, I keep trying it. But I strictly do submission wrestling, and I'm in it for my own amusement.

Lee

PS - What's a standup practitioner trying crazy carny **** like that for, anyway? If his legs separate, just stand up!

[DragonzRage]

That would never work against a submission grappler with even the most basic level of skill.

[TaoBoy]

Hmmm doesn't sound feasible to me but I'm just a BJJ newbie.

[BDKF]

Thanks guys,

I just had a thought and I wanted to see what those who had experience thought about it. Can't learn unless you ask!!

[LEGEND]

You can pass the guard with strikes! Go to www.groundfighting.com and look up MARIO SPERRY CLIPs...he'll show u a very effective pass in the street.

[Ford Prefect]

I used to try that every now and again for fun. You have to do it from your knees. the balance is all wrong to try standing. I wouldn't attempt it in a real fight though.

[Stacey]

You can't do it with both legs, you need to pick one, fake one way then go the other, dropping one leg and turning the ankle in your armpit/forearm for leverage. It goes to the knee ...to the hip and turns them.




Most people have enough abs strength to turn with you, but the fake and the added leverage almost always does the trick.


I start on the knees, and go to a stand and end sitting in a horse locking their back.

AKA.......Guo Long rides the donkey

if it fails, you have monk holds the stick or bend the donkey branch. (Ankle locks and knee locks)

[Asia]

You can't do it with both legs, you need to pick one, fake one way then go the other, dropping one leg and turning the ankle in your armpit/forearm for leverage. It goes to the knee ...to the hip and turns them.

That is called the SCORPION HOLD. And you can do it even against submission grapplers, but like ALL techniques you have to set it up. When I have dont it I grab the leg I want got to hit the guy in the stomach as hard as I can (or at least fake it) then go into the move while he isn't expecting it.

[Merryprankster]

While Stacey and Asia may have used this successfully, I would still consider this to be low percentage against anybody halfway decent.

Of course, if you get good at it--after all, Eddie Bravo uses a pin called the guillotine (no relation to the choke) as a spine lock rather frequently. Very unusual.

On the other hand, I would personally severely doubt anything Stacey claims to know about submission grappling of any sort.

[Asia]

MP,

I put the scorpion hold on the "high risk/low success" list because it is difficult to pull off (like the STACK in wrestling) It is also NOT one of my pefered techniques to do against the guard but it is one that I have used.

[LEGEND]

Attempts to do boston crab or scorpion deathlock type moves will get u SWEPT by a submission grappler or bjj guy. Do it if the guy is exhausted or NEWBIE.

[MA fanatic]

That move is not going to work. Not against someone whos has any grappling experience. The moment you try that, a bjj guy willl sweep you from his guard. Part of the reason the guard has been so successfull is because it could be a defensive position, and offensive. Guys who are good will have an active guard. They'll always be looking for submissions and setting up sweeps to role you over. Techniques should be looked at in terms of High perecentage, and Low percentage of effectiveness. The Boston Crab step over has been shown on some martial arts training tapes and taught in some schools. But, you'll always wind up air born and mounted by a skilled grappler. I wouldn't do it if you're up against someone good. There are numerous tricks to passing the guard and setting up your own submissions or taking good positions. You'll have to seek training from guys who really know how to work that position to really learn the various dementions of it. If you're looking into videos on guard assing, try www.fightingsecrets.com Marco Lala legs around bottom tapes. You'll be impressed.
MA fanatic