Attn: Gene Ching

[Ray Pina]

I am wondering if you have a stat regarding the number of martial artists in the U.S./world?

[GeneChing]

I've seen a few attempts at stats but it's so hard to count. I mean just trying to figure out China alone would be a mess. The measure is really tricky. But I'd love to see more attempts (as well as the stats they are based upon.)

[Ray Pina]

Thanks. It's just that I'm about to pitch my book which involves some martial folklore (Bak Mei) and I thought it would be handy.

I surf, and I believe the last I heard there are almost 4 million surfers in the U.S. alone. Crazy! And believe me, I've witnessed the growing crowds locally and on the road.

With surfing being limited to states with a coastline, I would think something as widely popular as MA would draw at least twice as many people. I mean, what town doesn't have a TKD school in it?

I would guesstimate 10M in the U.S. Would you say I'm in the ballpark?

Anyone else?

[Ray Pina]

.

[GeneChing]

Unfortunately all my statistics would be skewed to Tiger Claw, and we only represent a fraction of the market, so it woul not be indicative of anything nationally realiable.

[norther practitioner]

With surfing being limited to states with a coastline

Thats not quite the truth. You have to look at vacationers who surf, and that would concider themselves surfers as well. The definition of a group of people can be tricky, would you classify yourself as a martial artist if you could only train once a month, once a year, once a day, etc...... What classifies someone as a martial artist varies by who is defining the group...... Just some food for thought. I look at statistics for work from time to time, and its interesting to see some of these things, people who say that they are a skier, however, they haven't skied in 5 years, etc.

[Ray Pina]

Vacationers who surf we tend to classify under the "kook" category;) . These also tend to be the people who arrive at the beach with an obnaxious amount of crap: large cooler, radio, umbrella, blanket, kite, brand new surfboard with wax on the bottom:rolleyes: and the brightest neon shorts available.

On a serious note though. I'm not even searching for a number of hardcores, lifetime MA. Just how many people would you guess are continously enrolled (seaking the black belt so to speak) in a MA class in the US; men, women and children.

My guess is about 8M, maybe 10M. But you are right, I see the difficulty.

[GeneChing]

Here I can give you some rough stats. On average, roughly 40% of new students will drop out in the first month, and another 40% in the next 6-12 months. That's an 80% attrition rate. The bulk of the martial arts population is what we call in the business "front end." That's why most schools work with contracts - it assures income, just like a athletic club (and this dones' even begin to calculate how kickboxing programs in helath clubs rate - still waiting to penetrate those stats.) Those people are going to leave our community anyway, so they might as well give as much to our economy as they can while their here, eh? ;) Anyway, where do you draw the line on a continuous student? Over one year perhaps? Also are you going to include those kickboxers at the health clubs? It's a very tricky question. As they say, there are lies, **** lies and statistics. The measure of our population is very deceptive.

[Ray Pina]

I didn't even think of those gym cardio classes. For my purposes I wouldn't include them, because I feel they won't be drawn into the martial art folklore of Shaolin and Bak Mei. Of course I'll count on them eventually for the literary draw, but I think my best bet in penetrating the industry would be to play up the martial art aspect and draw in that crowd. We'll see how it goes.

But that drop out rate is scary on one hand and quite comendable for those who stick it out on another. I had no idea that 40% didn't return after the first month.

Another interesting stat would be of those who do stay, how many are "hobbyists" and how many are looking for something a little more, and I don't mean entering the UFC, just those that view MA differently then going to the gym or taking a fly-fishing class.

Martial arts are great. Interesting people. A great lifestyle.

Thanks
Ray

[GeneChing]

If you stay at it, most likely you'll get punched in the nose and have your butt kicked now and again. Some people don't like that.;)

[Ray Pina]

What's a matter with those people?;) :)

Thanks for your reply.