Do you believe the old stories ?

[Kid Couteau]

Hi All

I was reading my book on "Ancient Chinese Hidden Weapons"

There was a supposedly true story of a man that used the Willow leaf flying dagger as a weapon.

In a demo he set up 12 coins hanging by ribbons and as he did a saber demo he threw the 12 daggers one by one and pierced the hole in each coin.

Do you believe these types of stories?
Do you think that man is capable of such feats using his own abilities?

Kid Couteau

[SaMantis]

I'm a bit skeptical of really incredible martial art legends. Piercing coins with willow daggers may be possible in the way that it was possible for David Copperfield to make a jet airplane "disappear."

IMO most legends were a master's resume back then. If he were coming to a new town he made sure everyone there had heard about him in advance, and hopefully the bigger the legend, the less likely the chance of challengers waiting to meet him. As well as a better chance of gaining employment or starting a successful school.

[Arhat of Fury]

About a year and half ago , Ripleys showed a Japanese ninja/assassain(sp) that could throw a sewing needle through a 1/4" piece of glass. They showed it on tape and in slow motion. Im not positive it was real or smoke and mirrors but deductive reasoning would tell me that if thats possible, then maybe piercing coins with a willow dagger may be possible as well.

AOF

[Crimson Phoenix]

I take it from YJM that is own master could flick a chinese coin into a watermelon from a couple of feet away...and his test of proficiency was that the coin should actually exit the watermelon...

[NorthernShaolin]

Many times old Chinese style of writing does not translate easily to modern English. Many of these stories are written in old style writing.

Another problem is the style that they write. Many of the writer of the past wrote exactly what they saw and often times left out important or supporting facts. For example, Let say a man went behind a bush and at the same time, a chicken walk out from the bush at the same moment. The writer will write excatly what he saw; The man went behind the bush and suddenly a chicken appeared coming out from the bush. This leaves the reader to think that the man went behind the bush to turned into a chicken.

The writer failed to mention that the chiken was already there under the bush and came out because of the man sudden appearance near the bush.

[NorthernShaolin]

Many times old Chinese style of writing does not translate easily to modern English. Many of these stories are written in old style writing.

Another problem is the style that they write. Many of the writer of the past wrote exactly what they saw and often times left out important or supporting facts. For example, Let say a man went behind a bush and at the same time, a chicken walk out from the bush at the same moment.

The writer will write excactly what he saw; The man went behind the bush and suddenly a chicken appeared coming out from the bush. This leaves the reader to think that the man went behind the bush to turned into a chicken.

The writer failed to mention that the chicken was already there under the bush and came out because of the man sudden appearance near the bush.

[Ford Prefect]

If there's any doubt, that usually removes all doubt. Most of that stuff if bs. The legend is always bigger than the man.

[Kid Couteau]

Hi All

I forgot to mention that these were the Chinese coins that have a hole cast in them.

The skill thing was the actually placing the dagger through the hole by throwing. An accuracy thing

Thanks
Kid

[MonkeyBoy]

Originally posted by Kid Couteau
In a demo he set up 12 coins hanging by ribbons and as he did a saber demo he threw the 12 daggers one by one and pierced the hole in each coin.

Kid Couteau

All the Chinese coins I have, already have holes in them. Don't they all except the tael?

[Kid Couteau]

Thats what I mean the coins already have holes in them

His job was to throw the knife through the coin hole

See ya
Kid

[General Kwei]

I think there might be a little truth in each story you here, or atleast some of them.
If you were to come across someone who had been studying a martial art for a very long time, and putting alot of time in each day, they may seem to be capable of pretty incredible feats. The problem is that we dont have much to compare with now, very few people are able to work 10-16 hours a day on their art.

[Former castleva]

I don´t know so much of KF but Morihei Ueshiba so far,his feats...
They just make you think,and think again.

[SaMantis]

Piercing a hole that's already in the coin is more believable, that's a feat of accuracy.

I watched a tournament demo where a qi gong performer threw chopsticks into a sheet of plywood. Most of them stuck, a couple went straight through, although a couple of them shattered and bounced off. The guy didn't seem to be throwing too hard, either.

[Ford Prefect]

I once saw a demonstration where the guy ripped a quarter in half with his teeth and the blew the missing peice back on again right before your eyes. That David Blaine is amazing.

[[Censored]]

I don´t know so much of KF but Morihei Ueshiba so far,his feats...They just make you think,and think again.

Yeah, like "Why can't anyone else in Aikido do it?"

[Arhat of Fury]

If people or should I say "when" people use smoke and mirrors to portray great martial feats it is a very sad happening!

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by Former castleva
I don´t know so much of KF but Morihei Ueshiba so far,his feats...
They just make you think,and think again.

Read some odd business about MH in Angry White Pajamas... he said adept students should test their ki by piercing shoji with... how should we say this on a family board...? ... a well placed burst from a certain fast repetitive one-handed technique at round about mid-level...!!! :o

Now there's a legend! And to be honest [Censored], can't say I've tried to emulate the legend that closely! :D

[Former castleva]

Ha?

Is that the same book where those aikido experts went to brawl with bouncers as someone said?

[MonkeyBoy]

Some stories have holes in them, some coins do too.


http://www.alltel.net/~dt22545/s1762.jpg

[Shadow Dragon]

Hi.

Personally, I take all those stories with a large grain of salt.

I have heard often the same story in different variations from different styles.
My personal belief is that a lot of those are not actual historical facts, but lessons for students used by masters of old to make a point.

Like the thread about "Was Mas Oyama beaten".
I don't think that there ever was or ever will be a 100% undefeated MA.

BW, not saying that those stories are not based on some fact.

Cheers.

[ZIM]

I make it a policy to believe everything all at once, esp. if they are conflicting. That way I can just say "Unh-hunh" without surprise to everything I'm told. :p

Plus it cuts down on all the time lost doubting eveything so i can train. :D

[rubthebuddha]

Originally posted by ZIM
I make it a policy to believe everything all at once, esp. if they are conflicting.

poor zim's gonna kill himself if he ever tries chung moo do. gonna be splatted all over the sidewalk. :(

[ZIM]

poor zim's gonna kill himself if he ever tries chung moo do. gonna be splatted all over the sidewalk.

Unh-hunh! I believe that too! :D

[JusticeZero]

Gods no, I tend to assume that things get a bit Baron Munchausenified over time. But then again, our most often cited fish story is of Besouro, who got his name partly by jumping over people (which I can see, considering how low we often are), but who also was reputed to posess corpo fechado against bullets. The Boxer Rebellion in China demonstrated about how plausible THAT story is.

[Tainan Mantis]

How legends were born

My Shr fu went to another outdoor MA school and issued a challenge at the end of class at dusk.
He performed a type of Mantis style takedown where the thrower finishes in sideways type front stance with one palm extended.

Well, this other teacher tripped over my Shrfu's foot as he was going backwards and the students watching didn't see it clearly so they all thought that my Shrfu used his chi and projected it out of his palm to throw the man.

So, I suppose that all those people, to this day, believe that they saw a man project energy out of his hand.

[Tainan Mantis]

In Taiwan, many years ago, people would do a MA demonstration to help sell their medicine.

One group would blow up balloons and stand on them to show how they could become very light-ching gung.
Afterwards they would pop them with needles.

My Shrfu used guile to figure out the trick.
They had some fake balloons that could support a man's weight.

The most amazing real skill he witnessed was a knife thrower.

The thrower hit a bull's eye. Then he would throw another bull's eye which would knock the first knife into a bucket below the target.

The thrower never once missed.

Warning rated X...

Another highly amazing feat performed by women that he witnessed and can still be seen today.
At a certain female strip show the women insert a knife into their groin and shoot it onto a target board.
Another part of the show they insert crisp sugar cane and with a twist and snap they pull it out broken.

A student of mine said he saw it done with ping pong balls in Thailand.
This is part of the female assasination technique and method(the darts, not breaking sugar cane).

[[Censored]]

But then again, our most often cited fish story is of Besouro, who got his name partly by jumping over people (which I can see, considering how low we often are), but who also was reputed to posess corpo fechado against bullets. The Boxer Rebellion in China demonstrated about how plausible THAT story is.

That reminds me of a guy I met a few years ago. He said he could run very fast! But when I saw him run, he wasn't very fast. That's how I know that nobody can run very fast. Also, because I was born in America, I am an expert scientist. It's all simple logic.