The supreme way!

[Shadow Dragon]

Check this out!

The supreme way (http://www.taochi.org/html/the_supreme_way.html)

Seeya.

[Souljah]

erm, what do you want to be said abot this??
Tao chi's quite widely practiced.....erm, hello?? is this thing on????

[Chang Style Novice]

Tai Chi is widely practiced. I don't know what the aitch ee double hockey sticks that was supposed to be. Looked even worse than Tai Chi Chi'h.

[eulerfan]

Hmmmm. MAs with a scientology bent. That's what it looks like to me.

[Shadow Dragon]

Souljah.

Read the History and check the 12 movements.



Tao-chi history.

Tao-chi (literally "supreme Way") is the most ancient chinese discipline, idealized on 6th century b.C. by the taoist monk Chou Ling who passed on it secretly to his pupil Zhang Sanfeng.

Then, about the end of 2nd century A.D., the imperial doctor Hwa Do, became aware of Tao-chi, invented the "game of five animals", from which derives the actual Tai-chi-chuan.

Tao-chi - from 6th century to today - counts 50 grand masters and 1200 masters. The last grand chinese master, Tao Ling, decided to transmit the teaching of Tao-chi to a western, F.G.R., who became grand master.


Another Art that pre-dates a well-known style and was suddenly taught to an outsider (non-chinese).

Plus, it is another style that can be taught direct (Teacher) or indirect (E-Mail).

Something smells fishy, when I am offered to learn an Art via 12 Photographs and get the "the way of Chi" via E-Mail.

Cheers.

[Souljah]

u should probably post this on the neijia boards, you'd get more response there i reckon.

Tao-ji or dao ji is a very ancient art, we had a discussion on and around this on the tai chi board in a thread called origins of tai chi.

Dont take this silly advert site as a stereotype for any Dao ji you ever may come across. This is jus some fools way of making a buck or two.

[Shadow Dragon]

Souljah.

I read the other Thread.
Points being:
Chang Sang Feng(1391~1459) - has no prooven link to MA of any sort.

Chen TJQ traces is origin back to Chen Bu ( around 1374).

Chen Wang Ting(1600~1680) was 9th generation, and is credited with creating/formalising the Art into Chen TJQ.
Long time between him and Chang Sang Feng, who transmitted those teachings for nearly 2 centuries.

Even plenty of Chen TJQ players accept that the softening of the art most probably came from outside the Village (Jiang Fa, etc.)



Internal Boxing was passed down through the generations with noted practitioners like Chang Sung Chi, Huang Zhen Nan, Huang Pai Jia, Gan Feng Chi and Wang Tsung. Wu Dang Internal Boxing still exists at the place of its birth though it has been diversified into many different styles in the course of the centuries. But still present in its syllabus is a form called Wu Dang Taijiquan. This bears only a little resemblance to the popular Taijiquan of today but has common theories.


Read about the TJQ Histories here:
http://web.singnet.com.sg/~limttk/historg1.htm
in case you haven't.

Lots of Data and you will need to decide for yourself who tells the truth.

Cheers.

[Souljah]

I didnt say start the arguement up here, theres no point.

I've given up trying to look for evidence on the web because of the obvious biases, I will only continue research when I can get the word of real historians or read REAL histories (at least more authentic than what you read on the net)
U may also see that I got pretty much ganged up on in that thread, does this make my ideas wrong....NOPE, because most of the people there are going on what theyv read over the net.

Which is usually written by someone trying to promote and inflate their style with no real regard to true history. Though being fair some are witten with sole historical purpose.

You can say that zhang san feng has no proven link to MA of any sort, but then you dont really have any proof of this, There are so many variants of even when he was said to live. (1200s,1300s,etc)
So you cant make any solid conclusions on him or anything surrounding him.

Equally by rule this makes for the question "did he really exist?", again like so many things this comes down to what you believe.
The credit that is given to him for being the founder/co-founder of neija cannot be overlooked. (wudang wushu also known as dao ji)
But i guess neither can the mystical claims of him being a 7foot tall 200 year old immortal. That he was made up to bring in some national hero in counter to the external (mystic) influence of bodhidharma - as stanley henning writes in what many hold a sacred essay in the proof to the validity of taijis history (but then you have you question why these stories exist, perhaps to shroud the truth.....or to spread it.....).

also, Chen wang ting is credited not as just the founder of chen style, but many claim he invented taiji as a whole.....

Again obviously you can believe what you want and I will do the same, there is not much more we can do than that...



also- I do question the article stanley henning wrote as I find it very weak and not very solid on the ground it treads on, just mine and a few others opinions again.




soul

[Shadow Dragon]

souljah.

BTW, I doubt that you read the link that I provided as it addresses a lot of the things you just mentioned in your last Post.

I still go with what my Chen TJQ Sifu tells me, he is Chen family after all and should know best the origins/history of Chen TJQ.

Unfortunately not much of the Chen TJQ knowledge has been released publicly or been translated.
The Chen style I study only goes back to Chen You Ben, and is still not very widely spread in the world.

Also remember that most of those "claims" come either from outsiders of the Chen or Yang Family (i.e. Douglas Wile, etc)

Cheers.

[Shadow Dragon]

Souljah.

You can do a lot of research on the Net, but need to realised that many things are either repetition or interpretations of what people were told.
Some people did do actual research and some got reasonable facts on the Net.

Much info about Chinese MA still has not become known outside the MA Families or been transalted.
In some cases you will need to be a high-ranking student of a style to be allowed to access certain documents.

As for reasearch while in china, it is more than going to a style head and asking questions.
You will need to corss-reference goverment, Family records and many others to come to a common denominator which MIGHT be the truth.

Never mind that those records can be spread over the country, be written in old Chinese, etc.

You most probapbly will have do redo some reasearches already done in order to verify the validy of those claims, etc.

Example:
One Guy once went to japan to research a MA, but failed to find the "founding" Village and thus write in his book that the style is fake.

Problem was that he didn't check the goverment records as the village was renamed 200yrs ago, but solely relied on the stuff from the lineage holder.

Have fun in your research.