Shui Chaio breakfalls

[FatherDog]

I seem to recall it being mentioned on a previous thread that Shui Chaio breakfalls are done differently than judo/aikido/jiujitsu style breakfalls. Could someone experienced shed some light on the differences and/or similarities? I'm curious.

[Water Dragon]

Since no one else has replied, here's a few key points that I'm aware of. Tuck the chin tightly, both arms cover the head (shock absorbers), tuck the body into a ball (fetal position), ankles not together (or they'll bang each other.

Learn to twist the spine in the air so you land on your side. If you fall on a hard surface, you can injure your spine if you land on your back. If you're used to slapping the mat, you can break your arm if you're thrown in an un-orthodox manner.

[CrippledAvenger]

Water dragon,

Forgive my asking, but how do you guys train this? (I'm pretty uninformed on grappling.)

Are there any specific drills you do to teach beginners how to fall properly, or do you just pick it up as you go along?

[Water Dragon]

Well, you have the standard falling training like in Judo, except you tuck instead of slap.

There's also an exercise on the mat where you get into the landing position, turn over and kick your feet out and land on the other side. It's hard to describe, but it teaches you how to torque your spine in the air.

There's also a few falls that don't hurt that much and can be done low velocity to get you up to pair. Hip toss, neck surround, head mopping, etc.

Or you can be like me and ignore your teacher. Until the day he decides to teach you a lesson and you get thrown, hard, until you quit.

I still remember his words to this day.

**** larry, you lasted longer than I thought you would!

[SevenStar]

Ah well, he beat me to it. Since he did, I'll move on -

Crippled Avenger, I love your avatar. River City Ransom is one my favorite NES games

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Water Dragon
Learn to twist the spine in the air so you land on your side. If you fall on a hard surface, you can injure your spine if you land on your back.

Do you land on your side and then roll with the force of your fall, to wind up on your other side? (Dunno, if I explained that well) Or do you just land on your side and absorb all the impact on your hip/shoulder/thigh/ribs? I certainly agree that landing on your back on a hard surface can injure your spine, but I've broken my collarbone landing on my side.

[Water Dragon]

It really depends on the throw, specificaly how much velocity (power) was put into the throw. Most of the time, I can hit at between my side and back :confused: and roll a little.

There's a few time I've been thrown when it's just straight into the mat. You know when Coyote falls of the cliff in the Roadrunner cartoons? It kinda feels like that.

The fall is designed to absorb the fall with the big muscles of the body, (Shoulder, thigh, butt) so it does hurt like he!! when you get landed hard, but I've never been injured from it. Bruised once or twice, yes. But never injured.

[TaoBoy]

WD, do you ever find that you get winded with this falling technique? Is there any special breathing involved?

[CrippledAvenger]

Sevenstar,

River City Ransom is the cat's meow, ain't it? Nothing better than Japanese greasers beating up on badly named gangs of ethnic stereotypes. :D

now, if I could only throw a bike chain like that and if eating sushi really did improve my punching power, I'd be the mack.

[TaoBoy]

Originally posted by CrippledAvenger
and if eating sushi really did improve my punching power, I'd be the mack.

Sushi doesn't improve your punching power. I have been deceived!

:D

[GGL]

I'll try to build upon what has been said....

There are 3 basic falls (kinda of)
1: WD described it all.. have the arms around the head.. but not interlocking the fingers to absorb impact in the head region.. a "backfall" will include this and falling to the side in a fetal position as to not #1 break the tailbone.. that sucks and #2 not knock the wind out of you.. you land in the fetal position as to protect your internals from follow up attacks.. and then fight you way up from the ground... don't just pop back up .. you will open yourself up for getting kicked in the head
2: Front shoulder fall.. kinda like a front roll but you start with again arms up and not interlocking fingers and start with one shoulder and roll diagonal to the opposite cheek.. this energy should resemble a rock skipping on the water.. again don't roll up fight your way up from the groung..
3: front fall- you remeber the worm in break dancing.. sorry this is the best I can describe.. imagine if you were tripped and falling forward... have your arms bent in a triangle base with the meat of the forearm down.. bone does not take impact very well.. bent triangle arms hit first then disperse the energy to the chest then to the theighs and down the legs.. handgun weapons trainer teach this fall to still have the handgun ready as you hit the ground..

Oh yeah.. if you were ever a paratrooper they teach the backfall so not to blow out the knees.. kinda the same

Then main message as with any falls is to not put your arms out to "break" the fall and so with your arms too.

I have done this falls on all surfaces.. I have only come out with a few scrapes..

Training them you should always start low on a mat and then work your way up to other surfaces.. your body will adapt to the "abuse"

This is just one philosophy on falls.. there are numerous others.. and this is a long drawn out post so let me think what else can I say.... hhhhmmmmmm


I LIKE CHEESE :D :D

[CrippledAvenger]

This conversation makes me wish I'd taken up some sort of grappling training prior to playing rugby. Interestingly enough, the fall into a fetal position is exactly what I was taught to do when tackled during a match (fall to the side, hands over cajones and ears to protect them from cleats, don't pop straigh up, etc...). Odd, the similarities.

So, as a personal question, how much force do your legs absorb?



Taoboy-- You should have eaten the spicy pork at Mao's! :D

[GGL]

Depending on the technique.. the legs talk a lot of impact but is absorbed through out... so no real damage is withstanded

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by CrippledAvenger
Sevenstar,

River City Ransom is the cat's meow, ain't it? Nothing better than Japanese greasers beating up on badly named gangs of ethnic stereotypes. :D

now, if I could only throw a bike chain like that and if eating sushi really did improve my punching power, I'd be the mack.

no doubt! I wish donuts really could increase my defense! :D My favorite groups to beat up on were the internationals and the cowboys - the frat boys chickened out too much and the others didn't put up a fight. I take that back - the mob would maul you if you gave them the chance

[CrippledAvenger]

Originally posted by SevenStar


no doubt! I wish donuts really could increase my defense! :D My favorite groups to beat up on were the internationals and the cowboys - the frat boys chickened out too much and the others didn't put up a fight. I take that back - the mob would maul you if you gave them the chance

yeah. and that tire was a freakin' killer. who would have thought a rubber circle would be such an impossing weapon?

Ah, memories.

[SevenStar]

yeah, I remember it like it was last week...Oh wait - I played it last week! :D

[CrippledAvenger]

Originally posted by GGL
Depending on the technique.. the legs talk a lot of impact but is absorbed through out... so no real damage is withstanded

ugh. Even contemplating Shuai Chiao might have to wait another couple of months then. Drat.

Guess I'll just have to work my standup for a while. :(

(actually, this gives me an idea for another thread, but I think I've gone off topic too much as is.)

[CrippledAvenger]

Originally posted by SevenStar
yeah, I remember it like it was last week...Oh wait - I played it last week! :D

Lucky [insert naughty word here] ! My roommate's old NES is on the fritz, so we have nothing to keep us busy and away from class.

You know what I always wanted to see, though? A crossover game between River City Ransom and super Dodgeball. That would be incredible!:D

[Nichiren]

I thought that the main reason Judo guys slap out their arm (the other arm protecting the head) was that they want to avoid injuries to the elbow???? Shure some of the energy bleed of in the slaping but the main reason is not to land on their elbow.

What do you guys think???

/Cheers

[Water Dragon]

Judo falls work great if you land on your back. I've done Judo falls in practice and never been hurt. I've also taken one or two that would've put me down directly on the elbow if I didn't tuck.

Crip, what exactly is wrong with your ankle?

[CrippledAvenger]

Water Dragon (mind if I call you WD?)

The main problem with my ankle at the moment is this pin that the doctors put in the joint to hold it together while the torn ligaments healed. The plate in my leg isn't really too much of a concern because it can take a lot of pressure, but the doctor has been telling me horror stories about people who bent or snapped their pin for the last two months.

I should get that removed in January though, so who knows...?

[Water Dragon]

OK sure, if you're still interested, let me know. It's hard to find a good training partner. Everyone wants to train Gong Fu until they start training. Then they don't want it anymore, LOL.

Anyway, if you want to check it out, leet me know. The ground's gonna freeze pretty soon, so probably no throwing until spring anyway (I don't have a mat :D ) bit there's a lot of stance work, forms (forms=footwork in SC) apparatus training and some other stuff that could keep you miserably happy for a while.

[CrippledAvenger]

WD--

Most definitely, I'm still interested. I'll keep you posted as the doctor okays things. And don't worry, I'm used to being thrown to the ground rather hard. I *do* play rugby, after all.

But stance work and apparatus training and forms, etc.. should be easily managed by January. It'll probably just be a matter of conditioning at that point. (Gotta get my leg back up to its former strength, ya know.)

But yeah, Shuai Chiao looks d@mn cool.

[edited for spelling and grammar.]

[Water Dragon]

If you're serious, My Shuai Chiao teacher is coming into town this weekend. The public seminar is on Sunday. If you want, I'll get you directions so you can see what the art is about, get a feel for it and see if it's something you'd like to do. The seminar is out in the burbs somewhere.

[CrippledAvenger]

WD-- I can't guarantee I'll be able to show, but I'd definitely be interested in getting a peek at the art. Would you please drop me a pm with the info, if you wouldn't mind?

[kungfu cowboy]

Shuai Chiao breakfalls seem much beter suited for reality than the ones for the mat. I know the standard judo/jujitsu ones, but these sound better at protection and recovery. Not to mention that side air twisting one looks cool! Anyone know a good Shuai Chiao instructor in NE Ohio?

[ewallace]

The plate in my leg isn't really too much of a concern because it can take a lot of pressure
That's what I thought about the Titanium plate over my clavicle. Bent the thing just sleeping and had to have the surgery redone a year later.

[kungfu cowboy]

ewallace. I must bow in the humblest of humility for your having the best avatar/text combo. Was "what's Happening Now!" by any chance a short-lived series starring an older and wiser Rerun?:D

[CrippledAvenger]

Originally posted by ewallace

That's what I thought about the Titanium plate over my clavicle. Bent the thing just sleeping and had to have the surgery redone a year later.

Uggh. That hurts just to think about.

Sorry dude. That must have been so painful I'm not even going to make a bad pun about being a heavy sleeper.

...d@mn.

[ewallace]

That must have been so painful I'm not even going to make a bad pun about being a heavy sleeper.
:p

Yeah, talk about a bad day. I went in to the doctor's office to see when they were going to take the plate out. X-Rays showed that the plate was bent and the bone had not healed. They told me that I had to have a different kind of bone grapht and it needed to be done within 30 days. I celebrated new year's that year by pressing the button on the morphine pump at 12:00 A.M. I was asleep by 12:11.

[TaoBoy]

Gees, Eric. You seem to have all the fun!

:p