Learning to fight

[TaoBoy]

This may sound like a stupid question...

Do you have to fight in order to learn how to fight?

Your thoughts?

[joedoe]

I would have thought so. Can you learn to do anything without actually doing it? Yes, but theory and practice are too often very different things.

[LEGEND]

NO. You do need to spar against resisting opponents though. However if anyone says u need to go out there and fight u could say...to survive a car accident do I need to be in one???

The only thing beneficial thang in a real fight is experiencing the panic attack and adrenalin rush. However...I assume u prob. experience that arguing about sports or with your women! LOL.

[Lisa]

I've often wondered about this, too. Sparring obviously isn't the same as a real fight, because there has to be rules. I've never been in a real fight before in my life, and I'm not going to go out picking fights for the sake of training. Is there any way to really prepare for it?

[Shadow Dragon]

Lisa.

IMHO, there is nothing to really prepare you for the real thing.

Do your basics and train/spar with 100% on what you are doing.
When it comes to the crunch you need to let your body & training take over.

There is no time to think in a fight, good chance is that you won't even remember exactly what you did.
You just did what was neccessary wihtout thinking about it.

Kinda like the first time you executed a move 100% correctly in the Kwoon.
It just happened with no effort and no really conscious thought.

Just my 2 cents.

[Arhat of Fury]

I would say that YES, you do have to fight to become proficient in it. Some of you are differentiating fighting and sparring as 2 different things when in actuality, they are the same - the fact that if you fall down when sparring, your mate will not close the curtains on you.

To me fighting and sparring should become the same thing. After a while you should become comfortable with fighting sparring to where you dont get the panic feeling and your adrenaline is manageble(sp) This way you are comfortable and without thought when fighting, just reaction.

AOF

[TaoBoy]

Clarification: by 'fight' I mean either a full contact competition environment or a 'real' fight. So, to re-word the first question "Do you have to fight (full contact sparring etc.) in your academy to know how to fight outside your academy?"



Do you think that most schools train appropriately to handle a fight?

Do they teach adrenalin dumps, distance, warning signs etc?

[Shadow Dragon]

For me there is a difference between:
1.) Sparring
2.) Ring fighting
3.) Street fighting

Let's tackle them one by one:

1.) Sparring:
While intense is a training tool and no serious injury should result from it.
It is a learning tool afterall.

2.) Ring fighting:
More intense than sparring, and your oppenent is trying to hurt you but not to kill you or cause you a permamnent injury.
Atleast I hope so, the goal is to win and not to cripple your opponent.

1 & 2 also happen in a controlled environment, with people that can stop a fight and maybe provide medical aid if needed.

3.) Street fight:
All bets are off and anything goes.
Your opponent WANTS to injure, maim or kill you. There is most probably little or no outside help to stop the fight.

You most probably will be disadvantaged by your clothings, bags, surroundings, etc.
You DO NOT know what your opponent is capable or willing to do to win the fight.

I been in some and seen a few and things happen that would shock some people:
Ever been headbutted by a Guy wearing a full-face Helmet?
Or similar.

So for me there is a difference between sparring and fighting.

[TaoBoy]

There is definitely a difference between sparring and fighting. No doubt. But sparring is the closest we come get to fighting when training.

[Shadow Dragon]

TaoBoy.

No argument there.
But people must realise that sparring is a poor facsimile of the real thing.

Cheers.

[Martial Joe]

to survive a car accident do I need to be in one???


Yes you would, without a car accident there wouldnt be a car accident to survive.

[LEGEND]

Do you have to fight (full contact sparring etc.) in your academy to know how to fight outside your academy?
"Yup!"



Do you think that most schools train appropriately to handle a fight?
"Nope! Most schools use point fighting training!"



Do they teach adrenalin dumps, distance, warning signs etc?
"I do! Best to watch videos or clips from www.streetbrawl.com and other sources...and try to put yourself mentally there!"

[Ka]

Yes I think full contact is absolutly nescessary

However beginners should not just be shoved in there,Through partner drill work emphasis should be first placed on movement,power, speed
Then timing and Distance
Then fluid combination of the LOT
Throw in playing with people from other discilplines(for a different prespective),comps(so you can get beaten up and disqualified),and doing mentaly challenaging stuff not related to MA

Do most schools train hard
Nope
Most are too concerned about
a.looking bad (losing face and all that crap)
b.doing forms and wearing uniforms
c.trying to afford the next grade(everything will be better once I become a black belt won't it???)
d.trying to be asian
e.appearing mysticly profound and morally superior then plebs like us who enjoy sweating
f.dealing with their own insecruties and ego

[David Jamieson]

I would have to say that you don't need to fight to know how to fight.

I would also say that sparring and fighting are not the same, though sparring prepares you for fighting. you spar to your ability and you fight to your ability to.

any training is an advantage at some level. and yes knives, bullets and baseball bats usually win.

peace

[chingei]

Originally posted by TaoBoy
This may sound like a stupid question...

Do you have to fight in order to learn how to fight?

Your thoughts?

yup

[jon]

"Do you have to fight in order to learn how to fight?"
* Look at this from a different point of view.

Say you want to become a pilot on a Jumbo. They will teach you what to do in the case of an emergency.
Should you then have to practice a water landing with an engine on fire?

Fighting in the extreame case is and should be reasonably rare, if you can confine your ego it should be rarer still.

I would doubt that swat team officers are trained by being shot at with live ammo. Nor would i expect the bomb squad to use real mines when there teaching disarming.



On the other hand i also abhore the idea that you can somehow become profiencent in combat without getting dirty every now and again. You dont have to be trying to kill each other but you should at least be able to test your defences and attacking capabilitys.
I would not want to be sent out into battle with a rifle if i had never fired the darn thing.

[LEGEND]

Do u have to experience RAPE to know what to do to defend against RAPE??? I hope not :) Use LUBE!!!

[TaoBoy]

LEGEND - that was in seriously bad taste. I'm not even gonna start with why that is wrong. Take a good fckn look at yourself! :mad:

[SevenStar]

You need to train as realistically as possible. this includes drilling and plenty of sparring. Your techniques and responses need to become second nature, and you need to Know how to deal with taking hits. You also have to learn to deal with an adrenaline rush. Ryu posted a few training methods a while back that he uses to deal with that.

"Say you want to become a pilot on a Jumbo. They will teach you what to do in the case of an emergency.
Should you then have to practice a water landing with an engine on fire?

Fighting in the extreame case is and should be reasonably rare, if you can confine your ego it should be rarer still.

I would doubt that swat team officers are trained by being shot at with live ammo. Nor would i expect the bomb squad to use real mines when there teaching disarming."


They are training as realistically as they possibly can while still being safe. This is where full contact sparring comes in.

[straight blast]

Do you have to fight in order to learn how to fight?

To a degree yes. You must swim to learn how to swim, but that doesn't mean that you must immediately try to surf Waimea bay on your first surfing lesson! First you learn your art, then you learn to fight...or in the case of things like Muay Thai you do both at the same time. I'd be very wary of those folks who claim to teach Martial Arts but have never been in a fight.

It's like schoolkids sitting around talking about sex. Lots of ideas and solo practising (:D ) but until you've done the real thing it's all just speculation.

[MightyB]

I would never advocate streetfighting except under the most extreme circumstances, that being that there was absolutely no way to get out of it without fighting.

That being said, full contact against people who are not from your school is a must. Remember, only those who dare to lose can truly win.

I've always felt there was big difference between those who speculate, and those who know. It's in the way that a person carries themself. It's not ****y or arrogant, it's calm and very self assured. It's having true confidence in your abilities. You know what you can and can't do. (I'll never be a Cung Le or a Rudy Ott, heck, I'd be lucky if I can survive the next 5 years with a winning record, but I'll know my capabilities).

Full contact isn't for everybody, it's not. But, to know, to really know about fighting, you have to experience a fight. Not sparring, rather NHB or San Shou.

Someone said that a SWAT member doesn't train under live fire. That's somewhat true, but there is a huge difference between one who is green, and one who has actually experienced combat.

[LEGEND]

Do you need to eat COW *****( fear factor ) to know it's disgusting??? :)

[ewallace]

I do not advocate picking a fight with someone to gain experience. However, I think those that have actually been in a real fight before have a slight advantage. The adreneline is MASSIVE. You begin to tunnel, your heart starts pounding, and any "if he does this I will do that" type of thinking goes out the window. To think that one will remain calm like Steven Segal in the movies is fantasy. When you experience that adreneline rush the only thing that's gonna save your hide are those things that you drilled, and drilled, and drilled more until they became almost instinctive.

The problem here is that you would really have to fight ALOT and consistently over a long period of time, which is obviously unhealthy behavior. Just yesterday I almost got in an altercation and I started tunneling, heart started pounding, and I hadn't even gotten out of my car yet (never did). It's been a long time since I had to fight, I know what to expect, and this still happens.

Think of it like this...have you ever almost been or actually been in an a car accident? Remember how fast it happened? Do you remember any of the little facts and tidbits taught in driver's Education or defensive driving popping into your head, or did you just act? That is the best analogy that I can think of.