Training to Fight Other Martial Artists

[MightyB]

When you guys drill, do you find yourselves training to fight other martial artists, or less controlled and measured fighters?

[yenhoi]

If your training for competition tho - then you must assume skill on the other side of the ring.

[SevenStar]

I assume skill. My worst nightmare isn't the guy who's big, psycho and wants to kill me, but the guy who's big, psycho, wants to kill me AND is more skilled than I am. As I spar with people who are both as good and not as good as me, I still get plenty of practice against wild technique and people who try to power through everything.

[Liokault]

I really see your point here and kind of agree.

Some threads recently asked what a good defense to MMA type take downs are. My question is why do you need to train them? Who is ever going to use them on you in the street or are you really about to go into a MMA contest (in which case i say find a MMA club not ask questions on a forum)?

Same goes for head kicks......whens that going to happen? and counters to counters to complex techniques.........do you really need to know that for the street or would you be better off learning to deal with high preassure life/death situations that are more likely to happen?

[LEGEND]

I agree with Liokaut...I don't train for the "other" martial artists anymore. I train against the BIG BIG STRONG STRONG guys that will either try to beat me up standing or do the typical power slam me to the ground. I found that training with SKILLED GUYs...will change your game and goal slightly. It's like when Evander Holyfield trained vs. Tyson...he had to have a different game plan. Then against Lennox...he had to use a different game plan also. I only train for REAL FIGHTING. Though I do miss the competition and being TAPPED by those *******s at yamasaki!

[oldwolf]

yep, I tend to agree with Legend and Likaut,
I train to fight/contend with/deal with /etc the asssholes that have had enough beer or other substances that they wish to interfere with me, my family and quite often people who pay me for the same. The nature of the game is that in most cases trained fighters are less likely to kick off, but of course they, despite their hard work are only hman and occasionally they break with tradition and join the assshole brigade and are dealt with in kind.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Liokault
I really see your point here and kind of agree.

Some threads recently asked what a good defense to MMA type take downs are. My question is why do you need to train them? Who is ever going to use them on you in the street or are you really about to go into a MMA contest (in which case i say find a MMA club not ask questions on a forum)?

Same goes for head kicks......whens that going to happen? and counters to counters to complex techniques.........do you really need to know that for the street or would you be better off learning to deal with high preassure life/death situations that are more likely to happen?

The reason It's still good to assume skill, however, is because they may have skill. The people I know that always ended up in fight the most were boxers and wrestlers. In school, we had gang bangers on my football team and some that boxed. These were the same guys robbing people when they had the chance or felt the need. you can't realistically assume that your opponent will be some untrained drunk, or an untrained psycho who wants to kill you - he may be very well trained.

That being said, the format of the training should be different, but still assume skill.

[TaoBoy]

At my SPM school we generally train to defend against your typical unskilled drunkard at the early levels. Then we progress to defending against BIG BAD UGLY MOFOS, then skilled guys, then other martial artists etc. The goal being to have some knowledge on how to defend against most* forms of attack.


* I don't believe it is possible to train to defend all kinds of attacks - there's always something that wil be missed.

[MightyB]

I was thinking in terms of some drills. It's like how many people will throw side kicks and round house kicks etc. outside of a MA ring? The ol' if he sidekicks and then punches, I just don't see many people who fight like that other than martial artists. It's kind of the "rhythm" ain't quite right if you know what I mean. I don't think that you should trained for an unskilled thug, but rather a brawler with some skills. Sucker punches, rabbit punches, shin-stomps, knee-kicks, groin bashing, slams and grabs, an occasional headbutt, kneeing, and stomping on the feet-- all with feints, deception, cunning, quickness and accuracy. That's what I think a seasoned fighter is most likely going to do. Kick and go's just aren't quite real to me anymore...

[SevenStar]

no doubt. From that perspective, yeah, I agree. chances are your opponent will not be throwing head kicks and backfists, eagle claws, etc. the skills I assume are infighting and grappling.

[Ray Pina]

What sevenstar's been saying. (I like these non-controversial threads ;) )

[ewallace]

Who is ever going to use them on you in the street or are you really about to go into a MMA contest (in which case i say find a MMA club not ask questions on a forum)?
I think that to assume that no one would is a bit dangerous no? I've seen it done. To me. Maybe it's just different over there in the UK but to rule out someone here trying a nice form tackle (American Football style) could be costly.

[Cipher]

I have to agree with SevenStar. I like to always assume the "other" person is skilled when training or any time I get into it with someone. I don't mean drilling to defend jump spinning back heel kicks and that type of thing but more realistic training.

When you think about it, if you train to fight against skilled MA with skilled and realistic, punching, kicking and throwing then why on earth would you not be able to defend your self from the average non skilled Joe blow on the street.

You can defend a well place, skilled powerfull palm, hook, cross, winging strike, good kicks to the leg but you can't defend a wild haymaker or a sloppy shin stomp?!?!?!?:confused:

[Liokault]

Yes by all means train against a 'football' type tackle as it is quite possibly going to happen.


You can defend a well place, skilled powerfull palm, hook, cross, winging strike, good kicks to the leg but you can't defend a wild haymaker or a sloppy shin stomp?!?!?!?

Its not just defending against a wildhay maker is it?

That guy throwing the wildhaymaker is going to throw 20 random punches before he (hopefully) burns out and colapses in a heap. AND he really really just wants to kill you.....not score a point with a great kick that as a bonus looks great on his torny recording.

[SevenStar]

I don't think he's saying it will only be one punch. What he's getting at is if you can defend yourself against say, a boxer, you should fare well against someone untrained in punching.

[IronFist]

Good thread. How did I miss this one before?

IronFist

[SevenStar]

You've been too busy playing Zork :D

[yenhoi]

MightyB and others,

Sounds like we have decided that martial artists tend to square off at longe range (typically) and then fight? The 'unskilled' but expierenced or intentful wont square off so-to-speak and have the initiative (hit you first) at his prefered range?

Ryu should comment here, in real-life-scenarios, your skill and your opponents skill mean very little unless part of your skill is understanding all the **** that happens before a fight. Adrenaline dump, first-strike, non-threatening postures and positioning, etc etc etc.

Bottom line, when the real badass decides to attack you, it will be at his time, at his place, with all the other odds stacked in his favor. Then you can compare fighting skill.

Martial artists, even those that sparr all the time, have martial artist habits. Like squaring off at long range. This is something that can be easily avoided, but like everything else, if you wish to do it 'for reals' then it must be trained.

[HuangKaiVun]

In my school, we try to take into account what other folks do.

It was true throughout my training that my teachers were always commenting on other styles. That's how they tried to prepare us for the unexpected.

One can never be fully prepared for the unexpected, but he can always keep his eye open for new possibilities.