Chinese astrology

[Former castleva]

Anyone?
Got a single thought?
Found it interesting,if complex and questionable from a scientific view,but besides...

[dezhen2001]

i think its a science in its own right :)

dawood

[David Jamieson]

well, any astrology is hardly worth considering as a "science".

It is good fun for the superstitous and non-superstitous alike though.

The characteristics outlined in Chinese astrology are often times eerily accurate though. That is a curiousity about it that I have always found interesting, even when I was a little kid.

peace

[dezhen2001]

hi kung lek...

imo ba zi along with feng shui are more complicated than superstitions and everything... you have to know the earthly branches and heavenly stems as well as a very accurate date of birth for calculations. similar to feng shui they have to use the lo pan and many other things ot make calculations. thats why i say its chinese science as you have to study for a long time under a good teacher to learn the skill :)

dawood

[eulerfan]

Complicated superstitions are still superstitions, imho.

[Chang Style Novice]

Eulerfan is correct.

[dezhen2001]

eurlefan: im not even gonna TRY to argue with ya coz ur 2 d@mn good :D

dawood

[Former castleva]

Seems to cut ppl in two categories:

"LOL.BS-HOGWASH"

"Actually my friend,it is based on age old science and mathematics."

I just wonder...
Obviously it links perfectly into some things of TCM and chinese philosophy and CMA maybe.
That is one interesting point about it I think,I consider it worthy but it´s pseudo scientific approach is what makes it questionable.
While it seems that you could dis it immediately,you should still study it very much to understand various little nuances.
Besides that,such stuff as elements and match of animal signs make good behavior science and are even logical...
:confused:

[guohuen]

Me, "Spinach, I hate spinach!" Me Mum, "How do you know. You,ve never tried it."

[Chang Style Novice]

You will receive vague advice from someone who knows nothing about you or your circumstances and has in fact never met you. This advice will be based on irrelevant facts of no precision whatsoever. The result may be good, bad, or inconclusive.

[eulerfan]

A little foible of the human mind to keep in consideration:

If you read horiscopes of any nature, the times that they are surprisingly accurate will stick in your memory. You tend to just forget the times that they are completely off base.

I've had a preminatory dream. I literally dreamed something and it happened in real life.

Am I psychic? Hell no.

In my time on earth as a person capable of identifying that what I dreamt was happening in real life, I've had about 8,800 dreams I was able to recall in my waking hours. The probability that ONE of those is going to coincide with a real life event is pretty **** high. It's not special. But people to whom this has happened tend to think it is. It's just the way our minds work.

FC, I do think it's scientific. It is based on the science of human nature and making people believe utter hogwash.

dezhen, If you don't fight me, I'm just going to sit here poking your side. (poke, poke, poke) Is that annoying? Is that bugging you? (poke, poke, poke):D ;) :D

[dezhen2001]

ur poking isnt so annoying yet ;) do u ever get to wushu chicks chatroom or anything (msn, yahoo etc.) btw? its usually ages before anyone else is there and im on uk time...:(

dawood

[eulerfan]

Wen has a site?

[dezhen2001]

hey yup she does...

sorry to spam for wen guys! im sure she can do a good enuff job on her own! :D

http://www.fu-ragz.com
http://pub7.ezboard.com/bshaolinnorthwestforum for the discussion and chatroom, but u need to sign up 1st...

:)

dawood

[eulerfan]

Awesome. Done and done. I'm taking my blind dog to the park right now but I'll probably be in the room a good bit.

Not because I'm pathetic and spend an inordinate amount of time on the internet, mind you...other reasons.

[Former castleva]

Back to astrology for now? ;)

Huh,I nearly forgot to thank you for replying,here it goes...

Yeah,I don´t think it is very scientific from a western point of view,maybe not even eastern...hmmm.
I´ve studied it a bit and have come to recent conclusion that:-
-It should not be relied on.
-It is complementary,and may aid in understanding TCM etc. philosophy.
-It is good to know,just in case...
-Results and forecasts may vary from making sense to making no sense at all,a good point that I have found out is that even though it can aid in understanding things,it is also noted that things also originate from all different things.

[mantis108]

Chinese astrology

Pseudo sicence... perhaps
superstitions... may be
Old wives' tale it is not

It is very easy to slap on heritic labels and burn the witches (pardon the expression).

In the ancient texts, which many didn't survive through the ages, there are well explained reasons behind why certain animals are associated with certain time and the "Gone Gee". Surely folklores make it easier to remember and more interesting to pass on the info.

The Ten Heavenly Stems "Tien Gone" represent ying/yang and the five phases which are again representation of the 4 seasons. They are more as abstract as nature itself. The Twelve Earthly branches "Dei Gee" are more tangible. That's why there are animals to representing them. The TEB are also representation of the charaterics of the "hours". For examples:

The four extremes:

Rat (mid-nite) : it's a "farm" or wild animal that's most active at nite. Mid-nite is the first yang (beginning of the circle) which is still pretty small yet very active and productive in the procreation department ;) like the roden.

Horse (mid-day): it's a "farm" or wild animal that's most dynamic and full of energy which is believed to be a kin of dragon. This powerful animal is quite gentle. That's like the first yin (middle of the circle) which is hidden in the big yang (mid day) - Gentleness in a power house. Horses' procreation powress are quite astonishing in the Chinese eyes. :D

Rabbit (beginning of sun rise): it's a farm or wild animal that's very agile and fast. It represent the quick changes of rising sun at the eastern horizon. Also it's similar to the rat in its ability to reproduce in large numbers (many things/events happening).

Rooster (beginnging of sun set): it's a farm or wild animal that's punctual. It faces the east [the sun] thus it is place is on the western horizon. I think we all know how productive the chicken are. ;)

and so on so forth...

Anyway, these are just few examples of how information are "hidden" in layers of natural phenomenia. The THS and TEB are IMHO earliest form of "digitalized" information grids. It's traits of information age in the pass that didn't have the tool (technology) to go with it. Too bad that they are to many people as almost witchcraftish. BTW, Chinese divination is not more difficult or absurb then space expeditions. It's all about numbers crunching. Study the subject if you are interested in find the truth about it rather then relying on other people's opinions over facts.

Mantis108

[[Censored]]

Would you feel embarassed to learn that the PC you are using right now, is a derivation of the Yi Jing? Probably not...but maybe you should be. ;)

[Former castleva]

"Would you feel embarassed to learn that the PC you are using right now, is a derivation of the Yi Jing? Probably not...but maybe you should be. "

? Yi Jing.....let´s see..."intention essence" or something like that loosely translated off the top of my head but you must have meant something else.
Explain a bit more so I´ll understand that joke too and we can release the laugh together. ;)

Thanks for any replies.

mantis108,
now that you are offering such detailed information which I´m slightly aware of,would you (anyone) like to share your elements or animal signs and tell if you feel they have anything in common with you...
Mine is "wood ox" as far as I know...fits in pretty well.
Of course we love to rationalize ourselves and at times these things just don´t match or we want to close them away.
According to my "personality",I shall prefer roosters,snakes and possibly rats.
:)

[[Censored]]

Pinyin: Yi Jing
Wade-Giles: I Ching
A universal model expressed in 6-bit "words", as opposed to the 16- or 32-bit words used by most modern PCs.

[David Jamieson]

astrology and astronomy split centuries ago.

astrology is what it is and in fact gave birth to true astronomy by being coupled with it for so long (so to speak :D )

truly, to think that positions of stars govern your life, while interesting, is hardly based in any solid scientific foundation.

feng shui, is different again, but similar. It is dependent entirely on your belief in it in order for it to have validity and sway in your personal life. The rest is coincidence and has been disproven so many times it is pointless to start drawing hypothesis on it's scientific validity.

tcm has uses in the acute and chronic areas of disease and malady, it is a science, though it contains some systems that as of yet cannot be measured by science. It also contains a greater body of systems that can be measured by scientific method.

Kung Fu is pure science :D measured and measured again and again through the millenia.

peace

[Kristoffer]

Speaking of chinese astrology and the zodiak animals and such.. I've always wondered how you see what ELEMENT you are. Metal, wind, water, fire, earth? A friend of a friend said that ppl who are born in the sign of the Rat (like me) and in the month of March (like me) is the element WATER. But I've checked around and I have yet to found any sources for this. The only chart of any kind is this:
http://qi-journal.com/culture.asp?-token.SearchID=Astrology

And if you look under 'Rat', 1984 you see that after each line it sais different elements.
February 2, 1984 to February 19, 1985 (wood) I dont understand this... :confused: So accourding to this a person born 1984, 20/3 is WOOD or WATER?

[Former castleva]

Thanks for those replies.

These days,I have no doubt about the validity of TCM or even feng shui which is,besides having superstitious stuff also includes plenty of things based on pure feeling of comfort,common sense,good taste,and ASSOCIATION as said which like basic elements as processes do display our feelings toward certain things...
Besides that,things like radiation which have been proven threatening by science are taken into consideration.

When it comes to signs and elements which you,Kristoffer asked about...
Sign is determined by birth year (this shall be checked out carefully since chinese year cycle is a bit different) while element is determined by more "exact" time of birth not only depending on the year.
If you wish to get more sources,go to:
www.chinese.astrology.com
I better let you know that this is not your only reliable site,but belongs to the better ones.

BTW,this for astrology so far.
Your dominating element could be different in TCM as example,related to your condition but they might be connected...

[Kristoffer]

I see.

I've also heard that you can be 'determined' a element in Hsing-I. How is this done? maybe it's just wich of the elemental forms you prefer? But does the forms have anything to do with the zodiac?

Chinese astrology makes no sense :D

[eulerfan]

I'm tiger and my element is wood. So I take charge and like to be in control but I should be careful about how incredibly passive I am.

Dum de dum dum dum. Okay.

I once went to a tarot card reader at a renaissance festival. It was just supposed to be a lark but it ended up being pretty funny.

She lay out the cards, looked at them and said, "This is the most confusing thing. It doesn't make sense. This has never happened to me. Apparently, the best I can make of this, is that you don't know where you are going but you know exactly how to get there."

[mantis108]

Well, most of the tiger ladies (including my sister) that I know of are very impulsive. They are like tiger which can be extremely focus [ politically correct term for tunnel vision ;) ] But they get things done and get things their way. Unfortunately, that's the source of their unhappiness. Also they lead very stressful life.

Me being a dragon is pretty lay back [politically correct term for being lazy. :D ]. In a sense, that's the opposit of tiger. We dragon people are mostly dreamers and highly independent and love to ponder (pun intended). Think trice before we act.

Snake people, that is both guys and gals, they remember well (usually the bad stuff that you have done to them). On the outside they would be cool about it but don't repeat your mistake twice. They WILL get you for sure. Also they have extremely need for company. That's they will hardly be single. If they are they must live with family or something. In that respect they are like tiger folks too. Having social acknowledgement is a must.

Rat [ oh... that failed relationship of mine. :o ] is intelligent yet very emotional. She often gets into the ivory tower. If not for that I believe dragon and rat could very well be an excellent match.

Oh well... "life sucks, love stinks and I survive. I survive to date another gal. lol... " [battle chant of a dragon boy]

Just a few observation.

Mantis108

[eulerfan]

None of that Tiger cr@p fits. This is the best description of me I've ever found. Leave it to Jung.

http://www.intp.org/description.html

Myers-briggs personality test. It'll blow your mind. I've met VERY few people it didn't completely peg.

[Former castleva]

I do not know about Hsing-I,maybe Hsing-I makes no sense... :D

mantis108,
good insight.

BTW,Did you know Bruce Lee was a dragon? Nice things they have in common...
Oh well,Jet Li is a rabbit as far as I remember... :D As far as my geomancy etc. philosophy knowledge goes,such animals would certainly clash,whether it is in geomancy or... :)

"Rat [ oh... that failed relationship of mine. ] is intelligent yet very emotional. She often gets into the ivory tower. If not for that I believe dragon and rat could very well be an excellent match. "
This is very interesting mantis.
As far as I know,opinions on how well different signs match does differ slightly but when it comes to rat and dragon...
A PERFECT match!!
Failed or not you know,I think this is a good example of how various things color the outcomes...but oh well,there could not have been a relationship at all.
:cool:
Monkey and Rooster are also excellent matches for Dragons (While a dog is an awful one)

One overview of Dragon:
"The Dragon is one of the most powerful and lucky Signs of the Chinese Zodiac. Its warm heart makes the Dragon's brash, fiery energy far more palatable. This is a giving, intelligent and tenacious Sign that knows exactly what it wants and is determined to get it. Dragons possess a certain natural, charming charisma that ensures they can always influence their peers and often find themselves the center of attention in social situations. This Sign is truly blessed, too; Dragons are considered to be very lucky in love! The Dragon's friends are always keen to hear what this firebrand has to say and when it comes to dispensing advice, the Dragon has the floor.

Its ego can get in the Dragon's way, but even so, this larger-than-life creature has a knack for initiating projects and keeping the troops motivated. According to Dragons, it's their natural born right to lead the way -- because who else could do it so surely and so well? As lucky as they are, Dragons have a good chance of achieving considerable material wealth during their lifetimes, although it isn't mere money that's this Sign's main motivation. Power is what the Dragon wants and truly believes it deserves. Dragons are quite the opportunists, forever searching for ways in which to consolidate their considerable power. Contrary to all this strength and fire, a weakened Dragon is a sad sack, a creature that refuses to take defeat with even a modicum of grace.

The role of leader is the only one the Dragon wants, the better from which to give orders and be king of the hill. They make solid leaders, too, knowing instinctively what needs to be done to stay on top. Crossing the Dragon is never a good idea -- this beast can singe! A valuable life lesson for this clever creature would be to absorb the principles of flexibility, compassion and tolerance. Being high and mighty can serve to inspire others, but it also keeps Dragons from living their lives to the fullest. If Dragons can learn to balance their quest for success with an appreciation for the little things, their life will be more than worthwhile."

Another thing to take into consideration is one´s element which has an influence on your sign.

As an ox,I should have most of the success with rooster or snake,rats can be taken into consideration too.
No tiger,monkey or especially goat.

Just some stuff.

[Former castleva]

eulerfan,
Are you a tiger? :D
Maybe I should continue standing in my illustrative defense position by telling that it has been said that signs come to play the best when one reaches the ago of 30 (once heard so...)
Also every single sign has good and bad signs,maybe our image of ourselves differs from those (which is not bad) and we want to see ourselves in a different light,therefore closing certain manners away which we don´t wish to get involved with.
Also in certain cases,these signs may start to overflow thus presenting more bad things than good...kind of ying/yang.
This kind of rambling for now.

BTW,Great site you brought up.

[eulerfan]

FC,

If you read that intp description I posted, just scroll to the bottom and read the description of how I go about relationships, you'll see that the intp description paints a picture of a much less likeable person than a 'tiger'.

Ever the logician, after I took that test I asked my sister to read the description, just to get an objective POV. I just asked, "Am I sort of like this?"

She said, "No, Gwen. You're not sort of like that. You are exactly like that. I've known you my whole life and I don't think I could have come up with a better description. What is this? I want to take this test."

When all is said and done, I'm one of the most laid back people you'll ever meet. People comment on it. How laid back I am. I don't want things done MY WAY. I could give two sh!ts what anybody else does or how they do it. I barely want to bother with other people much less be in control of them.

[Kristoffer]

Rats rule BTW :D

[mantis108]

Hi FC,

Thanks for the boost! Man does that ever feel great. :D

Hi Eulerfan,

Right, with the exception of you then. lol....

Regards

Mantis108

[Former castleva]

Thank YOU for posting.

[GeneChing]

Got horoscopes? (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/resources/horoscope.html)
When we first started doing Kungfu Horoscopes, it was an odd resolution to an odd problem. We had this local Feng Shui master who was writing a lot of Feng Shui stuff for us - crystal power, matrimony, etc. We did a great series on how to organize your Kungfu school that started back in Feb 2000 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=111) but the rest of the stuff didn't quite fit. So we eventually started working on Horoscopes. Master Sun is funny to work with - he forcasts stuff like when you'll have diarrhea or when you'll break your fingers - not what most people like to read in a horoscope. But after working on this for a while with him now, I must admit, he's nailed some stuff for a lot of people. Check it out. We post all the predictions here with all the qoutes accumulated (but's it's worth checking out our back issues and seeing what rang true.)

I'll be posting the stuff for next year in a few weeks. I'll let you all know when it goes up.

[KC Elbows]

Ironically, both 'zodiacs' and the myers briggs sum me up pretty well.

I am a taurus. I'm set in my ways and like a simple life. I am also known for being able to endure through tough times.

I am a dog. I am loyal to a fault.

It's been a long time since I did the myers briggs, but it was accurate as well. I'm introverted, intuitive, and some other things I don't remember.

Keep in mind that the Myers-Briggs is not intended to tell you what you are like, but what your preferences are. Your preference might be that you are intuitive, but you can still have crappy intuition. You could be an extrovert who can't hold a conversation.

At the same time, I happen to fall in the same situation as eulerfan in this case, myers briggs happens to describe how I am as I am described to me by my friends and family. Now, I need to stop making my loved ones describe me to me so **** much.

But I'm just so good. It kind of ticks me off that Narcissus gets so much credit when he's clearly a punk next to me.:D

Anyway, I don't believe in crap. The Dog/Taurus/Myers-Briggs things all happen to sum me up pretty well, and that's the only reason they hold some sort of meaning to me.

BTW, somewhat OT, but someone was talking about dreams, and I was curious how closely anyone else followed their dreams. I have found that all the dreams I remember I can immediately apply to my life. Not meaning I'm seeing the future, but that I can connect the dreams with things that are going on at the time in my life and my feelings about them. Whether this is because the only dreams that are memorable pertain to my present interests, or for other reasons, I don't know.

Also, if I'm trying to think of a word that doesn't immediately come to mind, the first word I think of ALWAYS sounds a lot like the correct word.

Final one. Anytime I leave a building with parking and go to find my car, if I simply walk out and don't pay any attention, I walk right to my car, no matter whether I'm in a borrowed car in a strange parking lot or not, but if I think about it, it takes me too long to find my car.

Just to delve even more deeply into my disturbed psyche, when I was young and stupid, I was in a relationship with a married woman, the wife of a friend of mine(we're still friends, actually, despite all this). The whole thing was horrendous. Anyway, one day a friend asked if I wanted to see this dumb King Arther movie, and I felt like I just had to see this movie, even though I thought it looked like total garbage when I first saw the ads and I didn't like the actor who was in it.

Yet suddenly it took on amazing importance, seeing this movie. Anyway, in short order, I watched the movie, was a wreck for like a day because of the Lancelot-Guinevere-Arthur thing and the relations it led me to in my own mind, and I fixed that part of my life in like two simple, harsh steps. That's my one glowing review of Jung, the idea that things that take numinous importance for us, no matter how silly sounding on the surface, take such importance for a reason, and we must search for that reason. For me, it was some crappy Richard Gere movie. How embarrassing. Obviously I knew the Arthur story before, but I had not consciously related it to my situation. Thus the unconcsious urge to see a movie that normally would not engage my unconscious in any way.


Frankly, I think tarot is about as valid as rorschach blots in a way, except the wrong person is looking at the tarot cards. In both cases, you are looking at chaos and seeing what order you make of it. Then that order can be looked at for what it says about you. It is only when you accept the traditional explanation for how divination works and why it is applied that you run into scientific difficulties. If you merely examine these things for what they actually do, I think they're okay. I don't think tarot looks at the future or anything like that. I think divination takes pieces of chaos that are always present in varying degrees, and forces practitioners to look at those pieces of chaos as they stand in their lives. A lot can be said for what a person can look at without alteration, and what a person has glossed over because it is too much.

Oh, and as a side note, Eulerfan, please be more careful about how incredibly passive you are while taking charge.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by KC Elbows
Just to delve even more deeply into my disturbed psyche, when I was young and stupid, I was in a relationship with a married woman, the wife of a friend of mine(we're still friends, actually, despite all this). The whole thing was horrendous. Anyway, one day a friend asked if I wanted to see this dumb King Arther movie, and I felt like I just had to see this movie, even though I thought it looked like total garbage when I first saw the ads and I didn't like the actor who was in it.

Yet suddenly it took on amazing importance, seeing this movie. Anyway, in short order, I watched the movie, was a wreck for like a day because of the Lancelot-Guinevere-Arthur thing and the relations it led me to in my own mind, and I fixed that part of my life in like two simple, harsh steps. That's my one glowing review of Jung, the idea that things that take numinous importance for us, no matter how silly sounding on the surface, take such importance for a reason, and we must search for that reason. For me, it was some crappy Richard Gere movie. How embarrassing. Obviously I knew the Arthur story before, but I had not consciously related it to my situation. Thus the unconcsious urge to see a movie that normally would not engage my unconscious in any way.

Just imagine how different your life would be now if you'd gone to see "The Mists of Avalon" instead.

(For those who don't know, "Mists of Avalon" is a decidedly feminist retelling of the Arthurian legend... and about midway through, Guinevere tries to solve the whole Arthur/Lancelot thing by setting up a threesome.) :eek:

[KC Elbows]

:eek:

Well, let's see, take one for the team or pay 8.50 for a Richard Gere movie. It's a tough choice. Despite my liking of the dalai lama, I'm not sure I can pay 8.50 for D1ck.:D

[Former castleva]

Ha..?
Gere is awesome. :)

Thanks.

[KC Elbows]

Originally posted by Former castleva
Ha..?
Gere is awesome. :)

Thanks.

Your welcome.:confused: :)

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. I like him as a person well enough, but don't care for his acting.

[eulerfan]

"Oh, and as a side note, Eulerfan, please be more careful about how incredibly passive you are while taking charge."

:confused:

I'll see what I can do.

[KC Elbows]

My humor chip is apparently shorted. I was paraphrasing your bad tarot reading. It amused me more than my comment on it does today.

[GeneChing]

Back to horoscopes, I just finished the stuff for our next issue. I'll have it all posted after Thanksgiving so you all can peek into next year (doesn't look good, not until after Oct 2003 I'm afraid.)

Remember the old pick up line "what's your sign?" So 70's. It only worked if you could guess their sign correctly.

I'm a wood dragon pisces. Now you all know how old I am and when to buy me a b-day gift (but you'd a known that from my profile.)

[guohuen]

Fire rooster, taurus, myers-briggs and temprement sorter 11, all spot on.:eek:

[eulerfan]

Originally posted by KC Elbows
My humor chip is apparently shorted. I was paraphrasing your bad tarot reading. It amused me more than my comment on it does today.

Ah, sorry. I don't think it's your humor chip. To be fair, somebody recently insulted me in a very pointed, stinging way. Their wording was almost exactly like yours in that joke.

So, when I read it, I thought, "what the fu(k is that supposed to mean?"

BTW, you're right about the Myer briggs, test. I think I'm naturally a better socialite than logician. I'm very good at being witty and charming and all that. I never want to do it and, when I do, it takes so much out of me. Social events leave me exhausted.

I have to work really hard at the logic and math stuff. It doesn't come easy. But it gives me so much energy. Like a really good workout. You'd think you'd be tired but you're bouncing off walls.

[KC Elbows]

Well, sorry to mess with your day like that. I've been kind of off lately(winter royally jacks me up, I don't know what it is about it.) I wasn't actually meaning anything by it, I thought it was a pretty meaningless fortune telling, so I was making fun of that, not you. My apologies for the confusion.

As for myers briggs, that's interesting. I have a love/hate with the social thing. I like one on ones, but groups I'm panicky in. And math, well, I guess I've just not studied enough of it to appreciate the advanced stuff. It came very easily to me when I was younger, but I couldn't maintain interest. Really, intuitive stuff is the only thing that comes naturally to me that I still love. Thus the constant writing, and the love of wrapping absolutely everything I write in one form of silliness or another.

And, continuing my trend for serious topic drift, although I rarely check my horoscope, I once got a fortune cookie fortune that read 'disregard the advice of fools'. I disregarded it. Or did I?

[Former castleva]

Thanks .