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loquito
07-08-2000, 07:27 AM
Does anyone know if there are any Fu-Jow Pai Kwoons or practioners in the Southern California area?

kookyguy
07-08-2000, 01:30 PM
Anyone know of any Fu-Jow Pai instructors in california at all? I have always wanted to see this style /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

loquito
07-10-2000, 07:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by loquito:
Does anyone know if there are any Fu-Jow Pai Kwoons or practioners in the Southern California area?[/quote]

quickness
07-11-2000, 12:41 AM
Sifu Wai Hong gives seminars on Fu Jow Pai throughtout the United States. Sifu Paul Eng teaches Fu Jow Pai in California. Hope that helps.

loquito
07-11-2000, 12:54 AM
Quickness,

Thanks for the info.

Do you know if Grandmaster Wai Hong has ever given a seminar in California?

And would you know where Sifu Eng teaches in California?

Respect,
loquito

MoQ
07-11-2000, 01:08 AM
Fu Jow Pai is mostly an East Coast thing, but I THINK Paul Eng is in Campbell, CA.

[This message has been edited by MoQ (edited 07-12-2000).]

Jimbo
07-11-2000, 03:25 AM
kookyguy:
There is a set of 2 videos out by ESPY called the 1988 and 1991 Masters' Demos. It is a collection of New York-area and other areas' sifus/students. Fu Jow Pai is demo'd briefly in both tapes.

Also, remember that show The Vanishing Son? Russell Wong, the star, was a practitioner of Fu Jow Pai and sometimes did bits of forms in the show. His sifu was Tak Wah Eng of NYC.
Jim

loquito
07-11-2000, 03:43 AM
I appreciate all the leads.

I am pretty certain Sifu Paul Eng primarily teaches a Mantis form, but I will double check.

How about are there any Fu-Jow Pai transplants now on the West Coast/Southern Cal area?

Respect,
loquito

kookyguy
07-11-2000, 06:09 AM
Thanks for the all the help gang /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I have been to Paul eng's school but he seemed too old school for me I had to talk to the students sifu eng just smiled and walked away from me /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif but mabey ill go check him out again , It was many years ago that I went to his school things may have changed /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Enlightment
07-11-2000, 12:20 PM
Sifu Paul Eng teaches praying mantis but he also teaches Fu Jow Pai to select students. Kookyguy, you should come by our school again. What specific questions do you have? Sifu is very traditional but he will answer questions for you. My name is Peter and I train at the school. If you want, I can talk to sifu and perhaps we can all sit down and chat.

He just finished teaching us a Fu Jow Pai form recently. I seriously doubt that he would teach a new beginner a Fu Jow Pai form because it's unfair to the other students. The best day to come and sit down is Saturday and perhaps one of us can demonstrate a form for you to see. When did you visit our school?

Sifus specialty is praying mantis but he worked his butt off in his early years when he first learned Fu Jow Pai to develop a good foundation. Our school is in Campbell which is in the Bay Area. You can check out our homepage at
http://www.earthworks.com/eng/

The page is very old and not very well done. We are working on a new page. I hope this helps.

kookyguy
07-11-2000, 10:56 PM
Hi Peter it was about 6-7 years ago that i came by the school. Do you think Sifu Eng would teach Fu Jow Pai privatly? All the students seemed pretty good when i was there. Ill have to come by again and check it out again /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Thanks for the info Peter /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

loquito
07-11-2000, 11:49 PM
Peter,

I wasn't aware that Sifu Eng taught any Fu-Jow Pai. Good to hear that there is a little Fu-Jow out on the West Coast.

Would you happen to know the name of the form he was teaching?

I am in S.Cal but next time I am up your way I will do my best to swing by the Kwoon.

Thank you for the info.

Respect,

Enlightment
07-12-2000, 05:41 AM
Sifu will not teach Fu Jow Pai privately. In fact, he does not give any private lessons at all. That would be unfair to the other students who have put in their time and hard work. He would also feel awkward if he taught a stranger by private lesson because it would be sort of " selling" his art. I hope you understand this. People have emailed about private lessons and the best thing sifu told them was to check in a motel here and join the school to learn a 7 star mantis form and the applications that go with it. We just finished learning the Fu Jow Pai form called Tiger Claw. Sifu does teach Fu Jow Pai, Hung Gar and Northern Shaolin. He has a very good understanding of those arts from his previous training but he has dedicated the last 20-30 years strictly to 7 star praying mantis. He does not claim to be a specialist in any other styles other than 7 star mantis. In my opinion, he is very more than qualified to teach the other styles as well as his 7 star. For him to teach the forms from the other styles, he has to go back and study his notes which takes a lot of his time. The last time he taught the other styles was more than 20 years ago. Before teaching us the Fu Jow Pai form, he had to study his notes for a week or so. He would never do this for a stranger unless it was under special circumstances. That's why he doesn't just teach a style other than 7 star mantis to people that he doesn't know. I hope this helps.

kookyguy
07-12-2000, 05:49 AM
Thanks for the post Peter you just saved me a trip down there hehe /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Your Sifu is very good from what i have seen but i was only interested in Fu Jow Pai. Good luck in your training Peter and again thanks for the info /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

matrixninja
07-12-2000, 08:20 AM
Hey Enlightment Will you ask your sifu if the school in Taylor Michigan is still there. I looked at the web page and it says there is a school here .

I would like to learn for a little bit 7 star for about 6 months. I live in Taylor MI right now ,but will be moveing back to Flordia in 7 months, please ask thanks.

Enlightment
07-12-2000, 01:50 PM
Matrix, What do you mean "the" school? My sifu only has one school. Perhaps you are referring to one of the Tai Mantis branches in Michigan? What website?

matrixninja
07-12-2000, 10:54 PM
Thats is what i was refering to.

Enlightment
07-12-2000, 11:31 PM
We do have a Tai Mantis branch in Michigan under sifu Lay Fuy Yen. Whereabouts in Michigan, I do not know. What webpage are you talking about?

Enlightment
07-12-2000, 11:46 PM
We do have a school in Taylor, Michigan. I just checked. I don't know how much you will learn in just 7 months but you can try it.

matrixninja
07-13-2000, 12:07 AM
COULD you ask you SIFU WHERE it's at in TayloR mi.

Enlightment
07-13-2000, 11:50 AM
I'm sorry but we are very busy. Sifu doesn't have that information readily available.

matrixninja
07-13-2000, 12:04 PM
Thanks anyway.

Enlightment
07-13-2000, 02:58 PM
For anyone who doesn't know anything about Fu Jow Pai, it was brought to the United States by Sifu Wong Moon Toy who learned it from the founder Wong Bil Hong. Wong Bil Hong studied Hung Gar from Wong Fei Hong before creating Fu Jow Pai. The 2 styles are somewhat similar but still different.

loquito
07-13-2000, 07:10 PM
Enlightment,

Do you have any insight what the differences are between the two styles, Fu-Jow Pai and Hung Gar?

Regards,
loquito

Enlightment
07-14-2000, 01:35 AM
From the one form that I know, there seems to be more techniques using the tiger claw. Some of the movements in the form come straight out of Hung Gar. I only know one form so I don't want to say the wrong thing and give the wrong impression.

07-14-2000, 10:25 AM
I actually thought that Fu Jow Pai was created from Hark Fu Moon, as opposed to Hung Gar. It is taught along with Hung Gar because of Wong Fai Hung. Hark Fu Moon is older than Hung Gar. I study all three. This is something I've been pestering my sifu about lately. By the way, my kwoon is in Az. I don't know if that's close enough for you to be interested.

loquito
07-15-2000, 12:28 AM
Friends,

This is paraphrased from Fu-Jow Pai history:

Wong Bil Hong, circa 1840s, was a master of Hung Gar. He learned Hung Gar from Wong Fay Hong.

During a duel w/another master in the court yard of the Hoy Hong Temple, Wong Bil Hong and his opponent were thrown apart by an elder monk, who invited them to discuss their differences. They settled their differences and then both men asked to learn the old monk's art, Hark Fu Moon or Black Tiger.

Wong Bil Hong mastered the system and taught it to two people: his manservant and his nephew, Wong Moon Toy. Wong Bil Hong renamed the system "Fu-Jow Pai of the Hoy Hong Temple" in honor of the monk.

Soon after the deaths of Wong Bil Hong and the maservant died circa 1934, Wong Moon Toy came to NY and opened up shop teaching Hung Gar and Mi Ching I and only taught a selected few Fu-Jow Pai.

Wong Moon Toy died in 1960 and his closed door disciples of Fu-Jow Pai decided to open the door to the public in the late 60's early 70's, with Wai Hong as Grandmaster and leading the helm today.

Now, Wong Moon Toy learned Hung Gar and Mi Chung I first. Wong Bil Hong also began with Hung Gar. As a result, there are many elements of Hung Gar in Fu-Jow as well as some Mi Chung I. Forms such as Fu-Hawk Kuen, Gung Gi Fu-Fukien and Iron Thread are common staples in the Fu-Jow form arsenal.

Fu-Jow Pai and Hark Fu are one in the same. If you learn Fu-Jow you are learning Black Tiger. Hung Gar is a close cousin to, but a different style to Fu-Jow. Fu-Jow Pai was not created from Hung Gar.

And there are interesting questions regarding the history of Fu-Jow. No one has ever found if the other Master that dueled with Wong Bil Hong and later learned Hark Fu Moon left disciples. It seems apparent that they would have surfaced over the years but have not. Thus, Grand Master Wai-Hong and the other disciples of the Grand Master Wong Moon Toy, are the sole heirs, (along w/their students) to Fu-Jow Pai/Hark Fu Moon.

I hope this is clear.

Tigerlilly, where in Arizona is your Kwoon and with whom did your sifu learn Fu-Jow Pai?

Respect,
loquito

MoQ
07-16-2000, 12:01 AM
There's abit of Fu Jow stuff going in the Kung Fu Forum under the Bo Law thread...

07-17-2000, 09:43 PM
Hi...My kwoon is in Tucson, Az My Si Gung is Don Hinzman. He studied with Dave Kovar, from age 6 to age 15. He then went on to study Judo with Gene LaBelle for 5 years. Don was given his Master's from Gene last July when he found out that Don was made Si Gung. He has had his own kwoon for 7 years now. Wai Hong is who taught Dave Kovar. Wai Hong knows my Sifu if you want to ask about him or Kovar for that matter. I hear Kovar no longer teaches Hung Gar!!! Sold out!! Or I would recommend him.

[This message has been edited by tigerlilly (edited 07-18-2000).]

KrAzy FiLiPino
07-18-2000, 05:13 AM
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[This message has been edited by KrAzy FiLiPino (edited 07-18-2000).]

KrAzy FiLiPino
07-18-2000, 05:15 AM
Tigerlilly,

I am from Tucson also. I was curious, when is a good time to come in and watch a class? Also, how much is it to train per month and how long have you been studying? I appreciate any response.

Respectfully,
Daryl

07-19-2000, 08:21 PM
Mon and Wed are Kung Fu night 7-9 p.m. Tues and Thurs. are full contact/grappling night 7-9 p.m. Oh my God please... tell me who you are right away Daryl. Hinzman totally messes with new people's heads! I'm the Si Goo Mui who begins class on Mon and Wed nights. You can ask for tigerlilly. I'll defend you. I've been at this kwoon for 2yrs. It's 65.00 a month and that's for all the classes. You want. I only go to grappling class if I'm training for something specific. It's a rough class. There's also a 3 hr. open mat every Sat 3-6p.m. That's very casual. My personal favorite.

[This message has been edited by tigerlilly (edited 07-20-2000).]

KrAzy FiLiPino
07-19-2000, 11:21 PM
Tigerlilly,

That sounds like a great school. I studied over at Fong Sifu's for only a few months. Had to drop cuz of school and work /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif. That was '96 and I am 20 now, I love Wing Chun but I am looking for someone from the William Cheung lineage of Wing Chun to study from. Hung Gar is also something I am very interested in. If your there next Monday, I would like to stop by to watch a class. Where is it on 22nd? I live right across the street from Sabino Caynon. One last question, have you heard of "Kyriako's Kung Fu Academy", he teaches Wing Chun. Is he from Augustine Fong Sifu's lineage? Thanks for any response.

Respectfully,

Daryl

07-20-2000, 05:05 AM
The kwoon is on 22nd and Wilmot. It's on the n.w. corner next to Tony's italian deli about half a block west of the light. Kyriako's is a Wing Chung kwoon that's on Wrightstown. They're nice, but they don't spar there... forms and lots and lots of stancework. I like something a little tougher myself. I'm unsure of their lineage.

loquito
07-20-2000, 10:29 AM
Tigerlilly,

Would your Sifu know of any Fu-Jow Kwoons and/or Fu-Jow practioners in the Southern Cal area.

Thanks,
loquito

07-21-2000, 09:14 PM
I will ask later today for you Ioquito. But I've been told this is a rare lineage, esp. on the west coast.

loquito
07-22-2000, 05:39 AM
Tigerlilly,

I very much appreciate you asking for me. Any Fu-Jow Pai in the So. Cal area would be of great help to me.

Regards,
loquito

FIRE HAWK
07-22-2000, 07:11 AM
HI in a book called FIVE ANCESTOR FIST KUNG FU THE WAY OF NGO CHO KUN by author ALEXANDER L.CO on page 31 and in the glossary of terms they mention the most popular styles that are practiced in FUKIEN province a few are PEHO (FUKIEN WHITE CRANE) NGO CHO KUN (FIVE ANCESTORS FIST)CHUA KUN (SNAKE STYLE)TE BOK SUT (DOG STYLE)CHUKA (SOUTHERN SHAOLIN STYLES)and then they mention FU JOW PAI (TIGER STYLE) i wonder if this FU JOW PAI that is in FUKIEN province has anything to do with the FU JOW PAI style that is here in America.There is two books called FIVE PATTERN HUNG KUEN by author LEUNG TING in the books they talk about the tiger pattern in it it says tactics of the tiger pattern are come from the HUNG MUN RED SECT (WHITE TIGER STYLE)and the HAK MUN BLACK SECT(BLACK TIGER STYLE)these books have very poetic names for each tecnique maybe there is a connection with FU JOW PAI and HAK FU PAI tiger styles.THE HUNG MUN BLACK SECT or(BLACKTIGER) and the HUNG MUN RED SECT (WHITE TIGER)arent these names for secret societys like the triads and the heavan and earth groups that tried to destroy the Ching Dynasty.In a magazine called KUNG FU WUSHU QIGONG the Millennium Edition they list diferent BLACK TIGER STYLES ZHEJIANG BLACK TIGER FIST,SICHUAN BLACK TIGER FIST,and a northern BLACK TIGER FIST STYLE from the northern province of GANSU.There is also a book called WHITE TIGER VERSUS THE BLACK TIGER OF THE LAO HU CLAN of the SEVEN STAR SYSTEM KUNG FU the Black tiger form in this book looks like FU JOW PAI.And then there is the SHANTUNG BLACK TIGER wich is posted on the other board which i am know confused about its history does someone know the history of the SHANGTUNG BLACK TIGER. FIRE HAWK

SwiftKill
07-22-2000, 11:03 AM
Tigerlilly,

Your Si Gung(Don Hinzman), does he know Fu-Jow Pai and if yes, is he a master in the system or a degree ranked disciple and by who? Also, do you know when Dave Kovar was learning Fu-Jow from Wai Hong and what rank was he given and also by who? Does your kwoon have a web site? Just curious.

07-24-2000, 10:55 AM
I'm sorry to say that my sifu said that there is no one in s. ca that he would recommend for Fu Jow Pai. He has been studying Fu Jow Pai and Hung Gar since he was 6. His first black belt and the first 2 degrees are from Kovar. The third is actually from a guy named Shawn McGregor and then 4th 5th and 6th are from Darius Ross. He also is a Judo master that is from Gene Labelle.He also has a black belt in Tae Kwon Do from Tim Rymer.He has one other Japanese style black belt but I can't remember off the top of my head. I was wrong about who taught Kovar though sifu said he would have to look it up for me. Hinzman's fighting record is 243 wins 1 loss. Used to fight under the school name of the Black Tiger Fighting Rebellion if that rings a bell w/ any old timers.Yes Eng is in Campbell and Kovar is in Sacramento. These are the only FJP that sifu mentioned in Ca.that are worth recommending.

[This message has been edited by tigerlilly (edited 07-25-2000).]

[This message has been edited by tigerlilly (edited 07-25-2000).]

loquito
07-24-2000, 11:37 AM
Tigerlilly,

Thanks for the effort, very much appreciated.

I'll continue my search and hope to swing by your kwoons some day.

Regards,
loquito

SwiftKill
07-25-2000, 01:21 AM
Hi Tigerlilly,

I am a curious. You said that your Si-Gung(Don), studied with Dave Kovar at the age of 6 until the age of 15 receiving his black belt and first 2 degree's from Kovar. The third is actually from a guy named Shawn McGregor and then 4th, 5th and 6th are from Darius Ross. So are you saying that Don was a 2nd Degree in the Fu-Jow Pai System at the age of 15 and then later in time became a 6th degree in the Art of Fu-Jow Pai. Correct me if I am wrong but it is hard to believe that your Si-Gung became a 2nd Degree in Wai Hong's Fu-Jow Pai at the age of 15. Also, where(City & State) did the Black Tiger Fighting Rebellion fight at and did they ever fought in Wai Hong's Full Contact Tournament and what year?

07-25-2000, 08:49 PM
No actually Kovar waited until Don was 18 to to test him for his 2nd. You know that IS 9 years of studying a system and that's hung gar and fu jow pai combined. If you're going to attempt to dis my sifu I WILL NOT TALK TO YOU anymore. I don't care if you don't believe me either.Tigerlilly does not lie. You know he still is in contact w/ Kovar if you want to talk to him about my sifu. He would have been in the tournaments you're talking about from the mid seventies to 1989. The BTFR was out of Sacramento. His nickname I think was Alleycat. He was also a body guard for rock bands in the 80's. And was one of the main self defense instructors for the guardian angels(remember those guys?)He did all these things before the age of 25 too. Hey Daryl what happened to you? I have a month pass for you if you want it.

[This message has been edited by tigerlilly (edited 07-26-2000).]

[This message has been edited by tigerlilly (edited 07-26-2000).]

KrAzy FiLiPino
07-26-2000, 05:06 AM
Sorry 'bout Monday, I have school right now and am stressed out and busy http://216.219.234.88/forum/roundtable/mad.gif . I will show up next week though at 7:00 pm. Thanks for the invitation.

Respectfully,

Daryl

[This message has been edited by KrAzy FiLiPino (edited 07-26-2000).]

SwiftKill
07-27-2000, 07:59 PM
Hello Tigerlilly,

If you read my replies carefully, you will know I have no intention to 'dis' your sifu but if it makes you feel better for you to see me write it then fine. I am not going to dis your sifu in anyway. So RELAX and PUT THE GUARDS DOWN for I am a peacefully man with just simple questions.
Now I know 9 years is a long time but 9 years between the ages of 6 and 15 while studying Fu-Jow(only) does not mean that someone can still easily achieve a high degree in that system. If you know the high standards of Fu-Jow Pai, especially back when Fu-Jow Pai was finally being taught to non-asian, then you hopefully should know that it did not happen. Now I am ofcourse mainly talking about Fu-Jow Pai not Hung-Gar; in Fu-Jow I do believe there are certain standards, requirements, forms, techniques and theories that should be known for each level of degree. And there must be a mass amount of knowledge leading to a high degree that cannot just yet be taught to a youngster say between the ages of 6 to 15 for any system out there if the teacher teaches the individual correctly and by not watering down the system.
Now I did not say I do not believe you nor did I call you a lair, I am just asking questions based on your info. Now when you wrote that "You know he still is in contact w/ Kovar if you want to talk to him about my sifu." who is 'he' that you are talking about, I am not sure if you mean your sifu or someone else, please specify. Also, when you state in your post "He would have been in the tournaments you're talking about from the mid seventies to 1989." are you saying that he did compete in Wai Hong's Full Contact tournaments in the mid seventies to 1989 or that he would have but did not for some reason, please specify. Now this question is towards Fu-Jow Pai only not Hung-Gar. Your sifu received his 3rd degree from Shawn McGregor his 4th, 5th and 6th from Darius Ross; are these rank degree's given to your sifu for his knowledge in the Fu-Jow Pai Black Tiger Claw System alone or are they degree's given to him for his knowledge in the Hung-Gar system by itself?
For my final question. Did you find out when did (date in time) Dave Kover was learning Fu-Jow Pai, what was his highest achievment in the system and from whom did he learn and achieve these degree's from.
Thank you for you post and I hope to hear from you soon. Later.

07-28-2000, 05:53 AM
The 4th 5th & 6th degree certificates are displayed on the wall at the school...They say SI-LUM BLACK TIGER at the top and have the tiger fork fu jow pai symbol at the bottom these span in time over the last 8 years do you want the exact dates? Actually I thought learning about a kung fu system traditionally started at around age six. Kovar, McGregor and Ross all learned the system back east in the late sixties and early seventies. I can ask who their sifus are (were) I know that Ross's lineage is rare, like ours. His Hung Gar students also do kuan introduced to the system by Mok Guai Lan as our kwoon does. So... tell me who your sifu's sifu's sifu's is? What are their fighting records?...greatest achievements? Oh I asked specifically about Wai Hong Tournaments and Sifu Don said yes he has done these tournaments, if you would like to look up his record.

[This message has been edited by tigerlilly (edited 07-28-2000).]

SwiftKill
07-29-2000, 07:12 AM
Tigerlilly,

Now I understand, you are talking about Si-Lum Black Tiger Hung Gar. Si-Lum Black Tiger Hung Gar and Wai Hong's Fu-Jow Pai Black Tiger Claw Kung-Fu are two complete different systems. The tiger fork is actually the chinese character of a tiger's claw, it is not the official Fu-Jow Pai symbol. If you want to see the Fu-Jow Pai symbol, it can be seen at this website:
http://waisingtigerclaw.com/
the symbol is in between the website's buttons. I asked you these questions because I wanted to see how your sifu was connected to Wai Hong's Fu-Jow Pai but he is not connected at all.
That is cool to hear that he did enter in Wai Hong's Fu-Jow Pai Tournaments. What year and what weight division did he enter in, also did he win in any of them because I have no way of looking up his record.
I do not study nor practice kung-fu. I just watch my friends and give them my support whenever they enter in tournaments. I don't know who their sifu is but their sifu's, sifu's, sifu's, sifu's, (well you know what I mean) I am sure is everybody's sifu, Boddidharma. Thanks for the info. Keep on writting.

loquito
07-29-2000, 07:35 AM
Swiftkill,

Do you know what the difference and similarites are between Siu-lum Blacktiger and Fu-Jow Pai?

Regards,
loquito

SwiftKill
07-29-2000, 10:58 AM
Hi Loquito,

Fu-Jow Pai is a chinese martial art system based on the fighting strategies, techniques, movements, and spirit based solely of an attacking tiger. What similarites do they have? Well? I do believe the basic stances are the same eg.(horse stance, bow & arrow, x-stance, etc.) punches, kicks(front heel, toe, back, roundhouse, etc.) as in most systems.
The Hung-Gar system I think based their system on more than one animal. In fact, Hung-Gar(Hung's Family school of Gung Fu) started first with two animals, the tiger and the crane. The founder of the Hung Gar style I believe was Master Hung Hee Goon, a famous boxer who lived in the late 1700s. However, I think with the help of Tigerlilly, maybe we can get a better understanding of what Si-Lum Black Tiger is about. Can you help us out Tigerlilly?

07-29-2000, 08:50 PM
Actually one of the reasons I'm here is to learn more about my history. There are some really good threads already on the board about Hung Gar history. You know I didn't know I was studying 3 different systems. You can see the difference in the notheren kuan. Slightly higher stances with a straighter, less arched back, more foot work too. Hey you forgot the one thing the tiger styles all use and that's our CLAWS. Lots of open palm strikes and tearing. Tigerstylists have a tendency to attack from behind just like real tigers do.

SwiftKill
07-30-2000, 01:29 AM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Julio Gonzalez:
Wai Hong's Fu-Jow Pai is not a made up style.
The man's kung-fu is of the highest caliber. Testament to this is the quality disciples who have evolved from his establishment: Dewey Fong, David Chin, Angel Giboyeaux, Hui Cambrelen and World Champion Paul Vizzio.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is a cool link on Sifu Angel Giboyeaux's website http://waisingtigerclaw.com
The link is BASIC EXERCISE and can be found on the home page. However, the application quicktime movies must be viewed on a macintosh with the latest version of quicktime. For some reason it can not be viewed on a IBM PC. I was told that quicktime is very buggy on ibm's. Find a mac and check it out.

07-30-2000, 08:11 PM
Well I checked out the Fu Jow Pai symbol you were refering to and that's the one on my uniform and all the certificates. That's the symbol for the Fu Jow Pai Federation is it not?

SwiftKill
07-31-2000, 07:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tigerlilly:
Well I checked out the Fu Jow Pai symbol you were refering to and that's the one on my uniform and all the certificates. That's the symbol for the Fu Jow Pai Federation is it not?[/quote]

So, what you are telling me is that your Si-Gung(Don), is known by the FU-JOW PAI FEDERATION as a 6th Degree in the art of Fu-Jow Pai Black Tiger Claw Kung-Fu (Wai Hong's Fu-Jow Pai System) and I am not talking about Si-Lum Black Tiger Hung-Gar, just Wai Hong's Fu-Jow Pai System. A simple yes or no would do.
Also, you said that your Si-Gung did enter in Wai Hong's Fu-Jow Pai Tournaments. What year and what weight division did he enter in, also did he win in any of them because I have no way of looking up his record.

08-03-2000, 09:08 PM
The answer is Si-Lum black tiger. Before I get into a really long history of my Sifu...Who is yours? How long have you been studying black tiger systems?

loquito
08-03-2000, 10:07 PM
Tigerlilly,

Si-lum Black Tiger is Fu-Jow Pai? If so, why not call it Fu-Jow Pai?

If different than Fu-Jow Pai, what's the difference.

Respect,
loquito

08-04-2000, 03:59 AM
Honestly I just asked Sifu the same question and he started laughing and said there really isn't any difference black tiger is black tiger. He said the only real difference is a bunch of lineages that don't get along (That's pretty OBVIOUS)By the way I get most of my info through HORUS or ALMA not through someone's commercial website. It just makes sense to go to the most accurate source.

[This message has been edited by tigerlilly (edited 08-04-2000).]

SwiftKill
08-05-2000, 09:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tigerlilly:
The answer is Si-Lum black tiger. Before I get into a really long history of my Sifu...Who is yours? How long have you been studying black tiger systems?[/quote]

Hello Tigerlilly,

I am sure your teacher has a long history but with all due respect you do not have to repeat yourself .
The answer you have given me on August 4th at 12:08 p.m. "The answer is Si-Lum black tiger", does not answer both of my questions. Please read the posted message by user name Disarticulator, which was posted on August 4th at 6:06 p.m. in the Bo Law Kung-Fu, NYC; Kung-Fu Forum section.
Then ask your Sifu this question word for word, " Do you have a signed certificate from Master Wai Hong with the Fu-Jow Pai federation's seal stamp on it.". Please let me know what your teacher said. Also, as I stated before from my previous post, I do not study martial arts my friends do, and the style that they are learning is Fu-Jow Pai Black Tiger Claw Kung-Fu. As for the other question that you have been avoiding, I guess we know what the answer is.
When you asked your teacher about the difference between the two systems and he started laughing it is because he does not know what the difference is. Just because one system has claw techniques does not mean that it is the same as another system that also performs claw techniques. Therefore, his answer was just enough to satisfy you but nowhere near the truth. Would you have believed that there really isn't any difference between all styles because kung-fu is kung-fu? Horus or Alma are not the ones to go to for the most accurate source on Wai Hong's Fu-Jow Pai Black Tiger Claw Kung-Fu.
Now if your teacher does not have a signed certificate stating him as a qualified instructor from Master Wai Hong with the Fu-Jow Pai Federation seal stamp on it, then there shouldn't be a Fu-Jow Pai Federation symbol on your uniform and on your teachers certificate. However, still get back to me with his answer.
As always, I know you will get back to me but please try to answer all my question completely as best as you can. It does become tiresome when you have to repeat yourself more than once to get an answer. Thank-you.

[This message has been edited by SwiftKill (edited 08-06-2000).]

[This message has been edited by SwiftKill (edited 08-06-2000).]

SwiftKill
08-05-2000, 09:12 AM
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[This message has been edited by SwiftKill (edited 08-06-2000).]

molum_jr
08-05-2000, 02:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SwiftKill:
As always, I know you will get back to me but please try to answer all my question completely as best as you can. It does become tiresome when you have to repeat yourself more than once to get an answer. Thank-you. [/quote]


I can see that this forum is going down hill really fast...

loquito
08-05-2000, 08:34 PM
Swiftkill,

With whom do your friends study Fu-Jow Pai?

Respect,
loquito

SwiftKill
08-05-2000, 11:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by loquito:
Swiftkill,

With whom do your friends study Fu-Jow Pai?

Respect,
loquito[/quote]

Actually, two of my friends study with one teacher and the others study with another but I don't want to mention their names. However, both are certified Fu-Jow Pai instructor by GrandMaster Wai Hong that teach in the EastCoast.

08-08-2000, 12:01 PM
What question am I avoiding? I have quite a few threads I am trying to keep up with that are far more inspiring and didn't you say you weren't attempting to dis my sifu? There is absolutely nothing wrong with my sifu or his certification. his education did not stop at age 15 you know, he went with La belle for 4 years specifically to learn ground work and then went back to black tiger. I have already said this if you were paying attention he still talks to and confers with all of his teachers that are still alive. He has 26 years total of Martial arts instruction and teaching. He was a middle weight. 243 wins 1 loss between 1977-1989. The lineage is Si-lum black tiger hung gar, which IS part of the Fu Jow Pai Federation. I think I have answered enough questions for some one who won't reveal who his "friends in Kung Fu " are and doesn't even STUDY kung fu. Hey I have never said I am an expert, but I most certainly don't have to stand for this. As far as My sifu not knowing the difference....he actually said many more very political and inflaming things while explaining the subtle differences, but I'm against that. But I know what I know and laugh at your silly, untrue musings. I invite you to visit my kwoon and see how things are run. Maybe you should before making such accusations. Maybe tues thurs would be really really good for you... I'm sure with a nic like SWIFTKILL You'll have no problems......

SwiftKill
08-11-2000, 04:23 AM
Hello Tigerlilly,

Never mind about the question, I am not going to repeat myself for the third time. I am not insulting your teacher I am merely stating the facts. First, I did not say there was something wrong with your teacher. However, if he does not have a certificate from the Fu-Jow Pai Federation along with a gold stamp seal depicting the official emblem and a hand written signature from Grand Master Wai Hong on this certificate, then he is not a recognized as a Fu-Jow Pai qualified instructor by the Fu-Jow Pai Federation.
What does that mean? It means that if he is teaching or claims to teach Fu-Jow Pai, Hark Fu Moon, or Shaolin Black Tiger Claw Kung-Fu, he is misleading causing confusion and misinformation about Fu-Jow Pai's Black Tiger Claw Kung-Fu discipline to you, his students, and the public around the area. Si-Lum Black Tiger Hung Gar, is not, and I will repeat, is not a part of the Fu-Jow Pai Federation. So as I stated before, there should not be a Fu-Jow Pai symbol on your teacher's certificate or on your uniform. Try to understand that having maybe having a few lessons does not qualify one to teach Fu-Jow Pai and even if the lessons were from a qualified instructor, still does not qualifies that individual as a Fu-Jow Pai instructor unless he or she has that signed and stamp seal certificate from the Fu-Jow Pai Federation. By the way did you ever ask your sifu if he has a certificate from the Fu-Jow Pai federation with the gold stamp seal depicting our official emblem and it being signed from the Grand Master Wai Hong himself on the certificate.
Tigerlilly, I have been paying attention more than you think. All of your questions to me I have answered and all of your answers I haved questioned; if you had been paying attention, you would have noticed this. As I read your post to me, at the same time I am typing out the answers to your questions on another window so that I do not miss any of your questions; that is how much I pay attention to your post but I understand there are other forums that you are involved in. Repeating your teachers history over and over again is not necessary; in fact, 99% of it has no connection to Fu-Jow Pai which is what we are talking about.
Ask for my "friends in Kung-Fu" it is none of your business what their names are for they have no part in this conversation. I respect their privacy because I am sure they would not want me to give out their names to any stranger as you would not want someone to give up your name to a complete stranger unless it is for a good reason. I do not study Kung-Fu, but I do go to my friends Fu-Jow Pai Federation meetings. I have met and got to know personally all of the Fu-Jow Pai qualified instructors as well as the Grand Master Wai Hong himself. As you can tell, I ask a lot of questions and during the meetings I ask Wai Hong and the qualified instructors a lot of questions as well; questions about the history as well as who is involved with the Fu-Jow Pai Federation to this day. I'm not saying that I am an expert myself but I do have a bit of knowledge of Fu-Jow not only from my friends, and known Fu-Jow Pai qualified instructors but also from the main guy himself, Wai Hong.
I am sorry to say this but you are being misinform. You may laugh as much as you want but actually I feel sorry for you for being sadly misled and misguided. Even if I had the time to visit your kwoon, I would not be interested because I do not care how things are run. I am not questioning how your teacher teaches but what your teacher claims to teach. I am glad that you like my username it was given to me by my friends, and what is so special about Tuesday's and Thursdays class that would be really, really good for me?