Horse Stance...Damaging/Pointless?

[AndyM]

Hi,

Not got a problem with Horse Stance myself, but I've been getting some abuse about it being damaging to knee joints, and pointless as a posture on other forums.

Any thoughts?

(Sorry if this has been done before)

AndyM

[NorthernMantis]

Well it seems that you aren't practicing the horse stance porperly. Make sure the knees are over the feet and that your butt isn't sitcking out cuz it will case problems with your lower back.. That's a major problem everyone has.

[Stacey]

horse stance is kung fu.

[[Censored]]

Yes, it's totally pointless, if you don't have a reason to do it.

[fa_jing]

Horse stance is the bomb, but it isn't an excuse for overtraining or other incorrect training.

[No_Know]

Motorcycle riders use it. Equestrians use it. Popular dancers--Fred Estaire? Danny Kaye (that style), use it. Tribal dance uses it. Other types of dancers use it.



On what websites did you get abuse about it?

[TkdWarrior]

1. never extends ur knee beyond ur toes.
2. if u want to go lower go into big stance
good link is here
http://www.stadion.com/column_stretch2.html
-TkdWarrior-

[African Tiger]

How else are you going to strengthen your legs, squats? Here's what doing squats can get you:

Blow out both your knees
Lower Back Damage (belts don't always work, kiddies)
Shoulder damage
Neck damage
Spinal Cord injury
And useless, monsterous, overdeveloped Quads that have no flexibility, and you can't fit into a descent pair of jeans.

The Davis Machine or a self-spotter isn't much better...

Horse Stance is the shizmit

[Budokan]

I think I look cool in a horse stance with my genitals dangling in the wind. Don't bad-mouth the horse stance! hahaha

[Merryprankster]

Properly done, squats are great, actually.

[TaoBoy]

Both horse stance and squats are beneficial when done properly and damaging when done improperly.

Train intelligently. If it hurts - stop and find out why.

[eulerfan]

Oh, let me tell you. When you are sort of slim and weak, people want to grab you and pull you in because they'll win grappling. When this is the case, horse is your BEST FRIEND.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by African Tiger
How else are you going to strengthen your legs, squats? Here's what doing squats can get you:

Blow out both your knees
Lower Back Damage (belts don't always work, kiddies)
Shoulder damage
Neck damage
Spinal Cord injury
And useless, monsterous, overdeveloped Quads that have no flexibility, and you can't fit into a descent pair of jeans.

The Davis Machine or a self-spotter isn't much better...

Horse Stance is the shizmit

Only if done wrong. And horse stance only builds strength for a limited time. after that, it becomes more of an endurance exercise. Horse training is far from pointless, however.

Horse stance isn't going to prevent you from being taken down or pulled off balance if someone wants to grapple you though - you just have to change the angle you use to take them down.

[eulerfan]

Originally posted by SevenStar
Horse stance isn't going to prevent you from being taken down or pulled off balance if someone wants to grapple you though - you just have to change the angle you use to take them down.

If somebody grabs you and you immediately go into horse, they can't pull you off balance at that moment. They have to readjust. It buys you time to break away.

It's not magical. It's just my best friend.

[SevenStar]

how are they grabbing? if it's a bear hug, all they have to do is walk forward. If you are in a judo style clinch with them, they have a chance at taking you back-diagonally with o uchi gari. If they just pull you forward, then yeah, dropping would stop it. but they can still just walk forward and try an o soto gari.

[eulerfan]

Oh, I'm all about maintaining distance. I'm talking about grabbing my arm.

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by Budokan
I think I look cool in a horse stance with my genitals dangling in the wind. Don't bad-mouth the horse stance! hahaha

Budokan has the right idea! :eek: Nobody's gonna grapple him! They'd never get close enough!

[SevenStar]

coincidentally, I learned something for that yesterday. you pull their arm on purpose, and when they drop their stance, readjust, etc. you immediately shoot low and hard to take one of the legs with an ankle pick or single leg type of takedown.

[eulerfan]

What? It's not foolproof? Ugh. ;)

[Mr Punch]

Coincidentally, last night I was practising dropping into my horse stance really quickly when somebody grabs you, then moving with a really wide outside step when they go for the readjust (ankle pick or single leg), supplemented with a quick kick (****ed tricky to do without getting landed on your ass) or dropping your weight through knife hands/downward punches to the zygomatic ganglia (just behind the ears)... naked! :eek:

I wasn't practising with any decent shooters though, and of course, I couldn't use full power... so I'm still none the wiser.

My point is, I never like to stay in my horse for too long... and when I've practised horse stance endurance, I usually practise a very quick change from it to loosen my footwork up again.

[cha kuen]

Biggest problem many people have is that their knees are not pointing outward!

If your feet are 45 degress then your knees should be pointing outward to line up wtih the feet.

If you stand straight up, your knees are aligned with your feet. It should be no different in your horse. I used to do my bad horsestance for 3 years before someoen pointed it out to me.

[neito]

-i have rough cartelage in my knees, if i don't do horse stance to strengthen the muscles it will hurt to walk. thus, horse stance will not hurt you but actually help you.

-also i fight from a "front stance" so doing horse really helps my balance.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by eulerfan
What? It's not foolproof? Ugh. ;)

The only thing that's fool proof is chain punching :D

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by SevenStar


The only thing that's fool proof is chain punching :D

LOL.

Dunno, I've never managed to stop even a fool with just chain punching...!!! :D

[TkdWarrior]

Originally posted by neito
[B-also i fight from a "front stance" so doing horse really helps my balance. [/B]
wat's front stance??
-TkdWarrior-

[eulerfan]

You want pointless? I'll give you pointless. Right now, I'm learning to use a broadsword.

Yeah, that's going to come in real handy.:rolleyes:

[TaiChiStorm]

MaBu RULEZ !!!!

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by TkdWarrior

wat's front stance??
-TkdWarrior-

front stance, forward stance, bow and arrow stance = same thing.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by eulerfan
You want pointless? I'll give you pointless. Right now, I'm learning to use a broadsword.

Yeah, that's going to come in real handy.:rolleyes:

Actually, I found broadsword to be useful. All you have to do is carry it around. I was practicing outside over the summer, and I'd walk to my practice spot. I usually had on a tank top. I found out that when people see a big muscular dude swinging a broadsword walking towards them, they get out of the way pretty fast. And as an added bonus, cute females will watch - from a safe distance.

[Skarbromantis]

Useless?

SifuAbel can hold a man on each leg :D

Skard1:D

[FatherDog]

I'm not really familiar with bow-and-arrow/front stance, but I've heard it's very similar to classic boxing foot-position. Could someone describe it for me?

[Gold Horse Dragon]

True strength comes from the legs, waist and back...Say Ping Ma (four corner horse) stance develops this to a high degree and with time will lead to internal power as well. Done properly, it causes no damage or ill effects. To have great 'kung Fu' you need Say Ping Ma.

GHD

[AndyM]

Hi again,

Not too many answers to my original questions on Post One of this thread, but someone asked which forum this question came from, so here's the link;


Forum Link (http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1361&goto=newpost)


It's an open All styles/systems forum, with a few other KFO members on board.
I'm a Mod there, so behave or I'll track you down and put chewing gum on your car upholstery :D

Andy Murray

[[Censored]]

What can you get from a horse that you can't get from squats? And why do you want it?

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by [Censored]
What can you get from a horse that you can't get from squats? And why do you want it?

horse is static, squat isn't. horse stance will give you muscle endurance in that position and squats cannot do that. Also, a good horse is the basis of some chi kung methods, and helps to properly align the body. the squat does neither of those.

Both are beneficial, IMO

[neptunesfall]

reasons to practice horse stance:

leg and lower back strength
leg and lower back stamina
proper posture
pain tolerance
meditation


reasons not to practice horse stance:

injury
fever/illness

[anton]

Originally posted by FatherDog
I'm not really familiar with bow-and-arrow/front stance, but I've heard it's very similar to classic boxing foot-position. Could someone describe it for me?

Here's the bow and arrow stance that I know:
Shoulders square facing forward. front knee bent (the bow) with toes and knee angled inwards so that if you're looking at your reflection your knee is sort of protecting your groin. Back leg straight with toes at almost the same angle as front-leg toes. back straight.

[Souljah]

just a query for the horse-stancers, but how long do you guys sit in horse-stance for? (on average, say at training or something where the whole class is doing it)
And how long is your maximum?

Just Be honest and dont compete please....lol:cool: :cool:

[Souljah]

oh yea and how often do you sit in horse stance.....?

[eulerfan]

My class only meets twice a week. So, we don't do conditioning in class. We are supposed to do that on our own. I sit in horse stance as low as I can get to failure. I'll have to pay attention to how long it takes. I don't really know. I usually just do it while I'm watching tv or something.

[No_Know]

Front stance: one foot at least body width apaprt in front of the other. The feet are natural some times (Kung-Fu) the feet are perpendicular with the front foot turned in. Weight mostly on the front leg. Rear leg to support in case forced backward.



eulerfan:

broadsword seems to require speed and precision. Besides these if you do the same techniques without the sword you have a faster uppercut and slammoing fist strikes.

[Daredevil]

I train the horse stance for 2 minutes x 3 times each day, with less than a minute of rest (or rather walking) between. I've been adding to that lately and am going to shift to 3 minutes for each next week or so. I don't always use the clock, though.

My maximum .. well, I haven't tried out my maximum lately, but last I checked it was five minutes. I think I could do better now, and probably have done better, but I'm sure that would depend on the day, as well.

Of course, the horse stance gets trained subsequently more, as it features in several Baji technique drills, but that's how I approach training the stance itself. Plus the form work.

Looking at the previous posts, I'm amazed so many stress the muscular benefits of horse stance. I don't think you should train the stance for that (try squatting, for christ's sake), but you do instead to learn proper structure and relaxation. You do get some muscular benefit, but I think it's important only so much that it will help you achieve that other stuff.

[eulerfan]

Originally posted by No_Know
eulerfan:

broadsword seems to require speed and precision. Besides these if you do the same techniques without the sword you have a faster uppercut and slammoing fist strikes.

Right. I guess you could argue the ancillary benefits of any physical activity. Staff, numchucks(ducks flying tomatos), broadsword, are really going to give your arm strength in a range of different moves instead of a handful of fixed, linear directions.

Hmmm. I don't think that last sentence made much sense but I'm at a loss for how to fix it.

[SevenStar]

the broadsword has upward swinging motions and whipping motions - like the basic flower technique. Since the mechanics are different though, I don't think that will help an uppercut any.