View Full Version : Attn: Hung Gar Students

Begging Mantis
07-10-2000, 03:48 AM
Question for you guys:

Have you heard of the "shadowless kick"? Or anything to this nature? It was supposedly a technique developed by Wong Fei Ying(sp? or his family.

Thanks for the help.

Brian a.k.a. Begging Mantis

07-10-2000, 04:10 AM
Try the Movie "The Iron Monkey (Part I)"

Begging Mantis
07-10-2000, 04:43 AM
What's the movie got to do with it? Is this a real technique or not? Was it developed by Wong Fei Ying? Or is it one of the many martial arts legends?


07-10-2000, 04:45 AM
Yes it is a real technique and it was attributed to Wong Fei HUNG. But it's not what most people think it is...

Peace /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

07-10-2000, 07:26 AM
i study hung-ga and its called the "no shadow kick" it is a real technique, wong fei hung learned it from another man i cant recall his name at this time. it was from fusan and in chinese it is called "mo yern gerk"


[This message has been edited by manfukuen (edited 07-10-2000).]

Begging Mantis
07-10-2000, 07:31 AM
It's not what people think?

Then what is it? At what level is this taught?

So its Wong Fei Hung, is the guys name. Can you suggest any online references concerning him? History or martial style?

Thanks again.


Je Lei Sifu
07-10-2000, 09:11 AM
The mo ying guek or shadowless kick is a technique which had already been around prior to Wong Fai Hung.

The kick is very basic. However, the hands are use to distract the attacker attention from the kick.

Anyone can perform the mo ying guek. However, to perform it as effective as Wong Fai Hung, takes persistant practice and know-how.

You have to train the legs to develope not only speed, but also power.

If you have every seen the Fu Huk Seung Ying Kuen or the Ng Ying Kuen performed, then you have seen the Mo Ying Guek performed.

Je Lei Sifu

07-10-2000, 09:12 AM
the no shadow kick.......
A wise Hung Ga man once told me how to do this kick. Turn the lights off.

sorry df & Illusion I could not resist.

mantis boxer
07-10-2000, 10:59 AM
The ''no shadow kick'' is not really a distraction of the hands. It was one of wong fei hong's 10 favorite moves. It involves a chin na wtih the hands and a kick. The chin na puts the guy in an awkward position where he cannot see the kick coming, such as a chin na to the elbow which would make the guy lean back. You can then kick his kidney. It doesnt' appear in any of the 5 forms though.

bean curd
07-10-2000, 12:55 PM
mo ying geurk is in the forms as je lei has stated. the variation of application of the faht is more in fu/hok cern ying than sup ying.

the intent and concept of the kick is strict, the manipulation of the waist, hands, angles, stances, etc can be used for variation however.

the dog killing incident reveals the distraction concept.

wong fei hung also used gwai guerk (ghost kick), which is not mo ying guerk, the intent and concept are completly different.


[This message has been edited by bean curd (edited 07-11-2000).]

[This message has been edited by bean curd (edited 07-11-2000).]

07-10-2000, 06:23 PM
Don't forget "The Ten Killing Hands"

"Darkness has come. May the darkside of the force be with you."


07-13-2000, 09:35 PM
In some Hung Ga schools it is called the ghost kick.


07-14-2000, 09:15 AM
Actually ghost leg and no shadow kick are two completely different things. The ghost leg kick (gwei gerk) requires deception as it's main focus while the mo ying gerk requires speed as it's main focus.

Just thought i would straighten that out

Peace everybody /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

07-14-2000, 12:27 PM
thanks Illusion


08-22-2000, 07:12 AM
if you wear loose pants or a dress the kick is not visible to the naked eye

08-22-2000, 07:31 AM

08-22-2000, 06:35 PM
hello Ham
nice to see you brother

08-23-2000, 02:37 AM
Watch out for the rabbitfighter in a dress!

08-27-2000, 02:40 AM
Ham, that's stupid. I'd say that under 10 people in the United States know the kick.

08-27-2000, 07:52 PM
The "no shadow kick" is a real technique that is very easy to use in combat. Mantis Boxer had said that it was targeted at the kidney...I thought maybe it was targeted in the you-know-whats (ah, well, it helped me out in some fights, hehehe). Don't take that stuff that's in Jet Li's movies seriously. His version of a no shadow kick is a flying corkscrew kick that hits an opponent dozens of times. After seeing that, I knew that that was fake because of obvious usage of wires and the fact that Jet Li portrayed Wong Fei Hung as a Northern Gung fu stylist...I really wish that they'd portray him as a hung gar practitioner instead, but Jet Li doesn't know how to do Hung Gar.

Shaolin Master
10-05-2000, 09:28 AM
Je lei Sifu & Mantis Boxer are correct.
The mou ying gerk is very simple and appears in fu hok seung ying and ng ying (and sup ying) as well as part of the crane movement were two hands like wings and kick straight.
Both grappling, distracting and blocking form the preliminary component of the kick it is really not a big deal (Not too mention the clothing of the Wong fei hong era where the cloth could be lifted to distract or hide the kick). Like all martial arts there are no secrets only things other people don't know or realise

Shi Chan Long

The real secret is practice practice /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

bean curd
10-05-2000, 02:42 PM
i don't agree with your comments shaolin master.

to say that the kick is not a big deal, puts no value to the faht. this kick was learnt by wong fei hung from another sifu, who asked in exchange of wong fei hung learning it, to be taught two forms, one being tit sien kuen.

the posture is in the pillars of the hung system, and i would say for one to state that it is no big deal doesn't understand the methods, intention of the posture or the usage.

even wong fei hungs' last wife, mok wai lan, stated that when wong fei hung taught her the faht, she would not use it because it was too murderous, her words not mine.

the use of the faht with da xue, in itself dictates to the player the extent of the usage, what you have described in the hok ying area, is a superficial usage, that shows no depth.

i agree totally that there are no secrets in gung fu, it is only when you are shown the depth, the secrets are dispersed, they are not secrets only hidden wisdom revealed when the student is ready.

wong fei hung was a great player of hung gar, this alone tells us how important a price he placed on mo ying guek.


Shaolin Master
10-05-2000, 04:00 PM
Ask your teacher if it is a big deal! Any teacher knows that the technique alone cannot do anything. The only way that Mo Ying Gerk is of use is through repetitive practice.Faht = Method.
The method is just another as are all others from the sup duk sao to the sup yi kiu Sao again there is nothing fantastic about any techniques. I mean in shaolin there may be a million techniques endless methods of applications etc... But in themselves they are basically empty. In fact practising a basic punch everyday would with correct Faht (Method) become especially potent. Da xue = Cavity Striking again is only obtained with practice I could show a million secret techniques or famous ones because they were used by past masters (favoured by them, everyone is unique and favours what they desire) from Dragon Tail kick to Tai qi's Beng Quan to Xin Yi's Kong jin but all these are only great techniques if practised. Any teacher will know that technique alone is insufficient yes it is famous, yes it has worked, yes it is deadly but no it is not the only thing and no it is not so special. No need to hype skills up for the sake of mysticising and glorifying one's arts.
Mok Gwai Lan would have found the kick to her liking because Mok Ga (which she practised previously) already had a lot of the basics for the kick due to its continous legs sets with similar. So she would have become competent in the technique (through her foundation practice not for the sheer technique alone).

Traditionally in chinese martial arts hidden wisdom is not always revealed many a time it is discovered and then confirmed.

Lam Sai Wing Praised Wong fei hung's kick as he was confronted with it at their first meeting. Wong fei hung would have favoured it because he found it to be suitable to him but Hung Hei Gun would have prefered a simple tiger claw or lohan strikes given his times or even duan da rolling ga ging da based on his fujian shaolin training . This is the way of shaolin specialisation and skill training.

The path is easy do not duelve on the leaves but rather understand the root

Shi Chan Long

bean curd
10-06-2000, 04:18 AM
rhetoric is a great thing, and all that you have said is purely that.

comments like, "go ask your sifu", is pure and simply childish, in the manner and content.

a posture is never "empty', as you have put it, my only issue was the words that you have used, again to say it is no big deal, they are not the words to describe this or any other faht.

i don't need to be taught how to demistify the propagation of secret fahts, nor do i promote such intention, what i am simply saying is that the words you used, are not the correct words for such a posture.

there is no respect in the words you have used.

as for mok gar, as i have said rhetorical, mok wai lan was taught by her uncle a reknowned mok gar player, she learnt the posture from wong fei hung, a faht not known to her at the time.

her skills in the mok gar, gives her authority on mo ying guek, and her words should be heard, she clearly got it first hand, so her opinion has great merit.

i understand what you are inferring to, more thought is sometimes required

no disrespect intended


10-23-2000, 01:36 AM
I was taught that Mo-Ying Geurk is a concept rather than a technique. Remember, Hhung Ga ,as is wing chun,are concept oriented,not technique oriented systems. Mo-Ying also translates as formless, meaning deceptive. You can be deceptive with any kicking technique simply by breaking the so-called rules. These rules include distance,ki8cking height,set-ups, fakes, distractions, etc.Too many Hung gar people look at the techniques in their forms as just that-techniques. This is why so many Hung gar schools are teaching what I call shotokan with cool claws.It's kinda like the proverb,"Give a man a fish and he will eat for one day, teach that man to fish and he willnever go hungry" by looking at your gung-fu as concepts, you will find endless variation of techniques, from the simple to the sublime.

Shaolin Master
10-23-2000, 02:52 AM
Beautiful response ten tigers

10-23-2000, 04:14 AM
I agree!

[This message was edited by white sash on 10-23-00 at 09:19 PM.]

Wah Ren Jie
10-24-2000, 03:21 AM
Same here!!!

It's when it is the most difficult thing to do that it's the most important that you do it!

Hep Hwa
01-18-2001, 08:53 PM
I realize this is an old post but I am new to this forum and like reading about Hung_ga. Ten Tigers, thank you for shedding some light for me. I have been studying Hung-Ga for just over 1 year and find it to be even more interesting every time I learn something new. The more I read on this forum and practise the more I see of the bigger picture of Hung-Ga and Kung-Fu in general. Thanks ;)

bean curd
01-20-2001, 02:05 AM
what you have said is clever, though nothing new,from the five sayings you have gone straight to "gai" (adapt), yet have left out the other four, from your years of experiance i am sure you have been taught and know these sayings, and if so why have you said what you have said???

so although what you have said is true in regards to techniques, by your own description of the fishing scenario one must first do "yi", before they can get anywhere near "gai"