Top Three You Have Witnessed

[Jim Roselando]

Hello,


Over the years we have met and watched numerous WC people. Who would you list as the top three to date you have met or watched via demo or video?

No specific order for mine:

Mui Wai Hun-Incredibly simple in his application and art. Highly effective teaching.

Sum Nung-A true master of WC. Second to none!

Ken Chung-First time I met him I did not grasp what he was teaching but looking back I appreciate his WC expression much more now.


There are many more that impressed me but right now these three stick out the most.


Anyone else?


Regards,

[joy chaudhuri]

Larry, Curly and Moe?

[aelward]

This should be really interesting...

Me, I would say there are four people I have touched hands with that seemed so far ahead of everyone else--which is not to say there aren't more, because there are so many more incredible practitioners out there. But since only three are allowed, here they are:

Duncan Leung: incredible at application, but often ragged on because he doesn't put much emphasis on chi sao. However, I got a chance to roll with him, and I feel he is top notch. Every opening I started from poon sao was burried half-way into the motion.

Ken Chung: While Sifu Leung burries you half-way into a motion, Sifu Ken doesn't even let you start that motion. He feels it and neutralizes, probably before you even realized you were trying something yourself. Not to mention his effortlessly-generated power.

Wang Zi Jian: A Si-hing in Taipei, whose listening skills were boosted by a brief foray into Chen Taiji. In chi sao, you may start throwing some techniques off of poon sao rolling, but afterwards, it is all his game. He always has the initiative, and you will never get a chance to counterattack. Also incredible power-- I have seen him leave handprints on people (a la "Gold Steel Palms" from Iron Monkey), luckily, not myself.


These three guys are so dominating, yet so different, it always reaffirms to me that Wing Chun can be done effectively in so many different ways (i.e., there is no "one" truth).

[planetwc]

Kenneth Chung of San Francisco
Daniel Lui Chi Dak of Hong Kong
Chu Shong Tin of Hong Kong

[kj]

Originally posted by planetwc
Kenneth Chung of San Francisco
Daniel Lui Chi Dak of Hong Kong


I must wholeheartedly agree with these. Though I have met others who are impressive at what they do, and some being delightful people in addition to their technical prowess, these so far remain in a league of their own in my estimation.


Chu Shong Tin of Hong Kong

I am holding my 3rd vote open yet in hopes of meeting him, Lok Yiu, or someone else who might happily surprise me.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[reneritchie]

While interesting, I think most people will inevitably post some form of (my sifu), (my sigung), (my sibaksuk), etc. and thus render the topic not as useful as it might be.

What might be more useful, and generate less canned responses, is to constrain it to people outside of the responder's own lineage. Since its rare enough for WCK people to think anyone other than their own kind are doing anything even remotely passing good, it would be refreshing and especially insightful, IMHO, to hear those kinds of responses.

I would also leave off the 'on tape' part, since people like Yip Man, Tsui Sheung-Tin, Wong Shun-Leung, etc. have all been on tape and would thus make reducing the set to 3 very difficult 8P

(Note: I also think Ken Chung is very impressive in person, but regretfully I've not been able to meet Miu sifu, or any of the Fung family, though I have little doubt some would also be very impressive).

[kj]

Originally posted by reneritchie
While interesting, I think most people will inevitably post some form of (my sifu), (my sigung), (my sibaksuk), etc. and thus render the topic not as useful as it might be.

Yes, the question as stated begs, objectively and obviously, for a subjective answer, LOL.

On the one hand, it is consistent with human nature to reflect our personal biases in answer to such a question. [And I've yet to meet anyone on earth who doesn't have biases, though on occasion I've met some who may be in denial about it, LOL.] And after all, what good is it to have biases if you can't reflect them. ;):D

On the other hand we'd be right silly ducks not to learn with, or learn in some close proximity to, those on our short list, and who may have arrived on that short list by a more objective means.

On both of those accounts then, I'd be somewhat surprised if someone didn't include their own somewhere in the list. Both reasons will lead to the same kind of responses, despite probable differences in levels of objectivity and a sort of chicken and egg problem.

So, in the proper light I think Jim's question is actually a good one for revealing both a) preferences and predilections, combined with b) some semblance of a relative, albeit personal quality assessment in light of those predilections. It doesn't bother me to measure something, even something subjective, so long as I have a good bead on what the data and metrics mean and don't mean when I interpret them. Of course this also requires recognizing and managing underlying assumptions, the knack for which can vary wildly and on any given day. Even for someone as diligent as I try to be, LOL.



What might be more useful, and generate less canned responses, is to constrain it to people outside of the responder's own lineage. Since its rare enough for WCK people to think anyone other than their own kind are doing anything even remotely passing good, it would be refreshing and especially insightful, IMHO, to hear those kinds of responses.

Your question is a good one too, though perhaps more challenging to answer (on a subjective or objective basis). I'm still thinking about whether the responses would necessarily indicate less personal bias, or just a different kind of personal bias or error, and whether or not they would be more meaningful.

Pensive Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[S.Teebas]

Tsui Sheung-Tin - Because IMHO his WC theories are among the most advanced (yet simple)

Susana Ho - Because of technician knowledge/ability and can pass it on so well.



It's hard to pick a third, ive interest in ken Chung's ideas, of what little ive been exposed to (Kj your a good ambassador!)

I like the WSL guys ideas too. And the yip man video!!

I find that while we might be doing things somewhat different and it might sound weird, but the ideas that people have can be applied or considered inside the context of what we learn in our linage or school, or on our own. Even though we might not agree with what we would see, the concepts are the gold.

[yuanfen]

Rene says:
Since its rare enough for WCK people to think anyone other than their own kind are doing anything even remotely passing good, ..
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is for that reason that I gave a facetious response. Even though Jim's intentions are good- there is likely to be a lot of sifu-sigung listings. Sorry Jim- I dont see the point of the poll.
joy

PS Consider Larry, Curly and Moe...
1. They definitely know biu jee
2. they always know where the dummy is
3. they can uproot people
4. they stay with what comes and try to attack when it leaves
5. they know pak sao and wu sao
6. they know moe duk-- actually moe probably reinvented it.
7. they dont telegraph their moves
8. when they hafta- they go to the ground!

[S.Teebas]

I'll do yours yuanfen:

Ho Ka Min
Augustine Fung
S.Teebas ;) :p :p :D

[yuanfen]

Teebas- how did you know?
Remarkable intuition!

[kj]

Originally posted by yuanfen
Teebas- how did you know?
Remarkable intuition!

:D

[planetwc]

There are others I would like to see on video given their location relative to mine(or their having passed away) :

Yip Man
(the reputed earlier footage that Leung Ting has, I have the footage of him days before his death)

Lok Yiu

Sum Nung

Ho Kam Ming

Wong Shun Leung
(seminar footage other than the Science of In-Fighting video which I already have)

[Jim Roselando]

Hi Joy,


The reason for the poll was simply to see who some people would regard as the top they have met. No hidden agenda. I also wanted to see how many people would be honest enough to answer! There are a lot of people with a lot of experience on this forum and perhaps we can all use the top three's as a good place to use others views to check out some different people.

The reason I chose who I did was simple but I do see your point as to this being a good place to start BS!

For me! All three make use of very subtle Kung Fu. All three have great posture and root. All three look very relaxed but alive. Etc.. Etc..

I have respect for a lot of other WC folk but right now these guys hold the top spots for me. Also, if you notice I did not make lineage a deciding factor as each one was from a different lineage. One from Koo Lo. One from YKS and one from YM.

Ok! Gotta run!


See ya,

[Grendel]

Jim,

I grant that I don't get out much, so my opinions as based on actual experience of various teachers is limited.

I haven't found that the most known proponents of Wing Chun to be open to touching hands with me outside of my own lineage. This being the case, I doubt others' Wing Chun skill until they are more open to assessment. The very fact that they are confident, or not, in their hands tells me much of what I want to know about them.

Regards,

[John Weiland]

In my best objective opinion, the three top hands I have met are

Ken Chung :D

Ben Der :D

Sandy Wong :D

Steve Wong :D

Vince Kong Lee :D

All are bio-ed on Bay Area Wing Chun Association (http://www.bawcsa.org/) :D:D:D

[tparkerkfo]

At the risk of ostracism....

I have met few that were in a position to leave a lasting impression. Most people I have meet are good practiioners, and many I really do respect for their skills.

I only have had one person that ever made me say wow. That is my current "teacher" I put that in quotes because I am not a regular student but more of a visitor. I have yet to feel any one that can do what he does....but to be fair I have not met many people in his class. That would be Kenneth Chung. As KJ pointed out, it would be silly to recognize this and then not to train with the person. So of course I am biased. LOL. But Rene would object to it being in my lineage. LOL.

My next would be Eddie Chong. But again, he is in my lineage from before Ken. Many people may balk at this, but that is from my experience. And before you balk, have you experienced any thing from him. LOL

So who is left? On video I would list
1) Yip Man (By default, how could you not)
2) Wong Sheung Leung (See above)
3)?- No one else was impressive

I would have put Sum Nung, Wang Kiu, Lok Yiu, or Tsui Shun Tin inthere, but no one has shared a video with me. Hint Hint. LOL

The people I am most interested in would be, in no particular order.
1) Sum Nung
2) Tsu Shung Tin
3) Lok Yiu

Tom
________
Colorado medical marijuana dispensaries (http://colorado.dispensaries.org/)

[planetwc]

Well Jim,

I've also seen more folks on video, especially courtesy of the old Wing Chun compilation tape Steve Leung used to send out before he retired.

There are other folks like Ip Chun and Leung Ting, who I have met but not felt their hands (while I have seen them on video). I've met and rolled with Hawkins Cheung and his students, a Hung Fa Yi guy, William Cheung guys, Augustine Fong students, etc.

I have the full Pan Nam VCD set, hard for me to judge him given the advanced age at which he made those tapes. My si-gung Ken Chung did touch his hands and said they were ok.

And there is some odd looking Koo Lo village footage on the web.

I'd like to see WT seminar footage rather than the marketing stuff as I think their demo stuff is generally bad posture/structure for the sake of overemphasing how they would do a "beat down" on someone. That's fine for attracting newbies to WC, but I'd like to see beyond the sizzle to the real deal of what they have.

So, I'm not sure if you are trying to gauge how much Wing Chun people have seen outside their own school either hands on or via video tape or just who of that set people were impressed by.

Many of the other sifus seem uninterested in letting you try their hands directly, which is were you truly get a sense of what they may have.

Suffice it to say I have a large collection of Wing Chun videos, not as large as say Steve Leung used to have, but still, enough to see what else is out there.

[Rob Wolf]

My three..... 1)Ho Kam Ming
2)Augustine Fong
3) Danny Chan
www.sillumwingchun.com

[yuanfen]

Good choices Rob-
Danny (Chan) is awesome-hands, legs, footwork, timing, precision, positioning, power, control-you name it. A wing chun person through and through. Most folks havent felt or seen him-
making the polling somewhat problematic- because most folks have limited data on many people in wing chun who are not in mags etc.

He can transfer those skills to many other activities. When he spikes a volleyball- best to just simply get out of the way.

[Rolling_Hand]

The challenge of warriorship is to step out into space, by being brave and at the same time gentle.

(1) Wong Shun Leung
(2) Garrett Gee
(3) Andreas Hoffmann

[novacast]

Meeting these few people have prefoundly changed the way I understand Ving Tsun and training:-

(1) Barry Lee (WSL lineage)
(2) David Peterson (WSL lineage)
(3) Tony Bartorkos (TST Lineage)

Cheers.:)

[PaulH]

While there are many very skilled WC people, I do think these following three men made most lasting and significant contributions to the modernization of WC.

1. Yip Man
2. Wong Shun Leung
3. Bruce Lee

Yip for his embodiment of WC skills and spirit.

Wong for his daring, innovative, cunning warrior skills and famous exploits.

Bruce for his boldness to go where no WCners has gone before to search for hidden potentials of the human body, soul, and spirit in fields of combat.

Regards,

[Patrick Gordon]

I have been thinking of well know people whom I have seen or touched hands with. There are not many I have met and some others I was not very impressed by. Rob Wolfe brought up the name Danny Chan, Sifu Fong's most senior student. I would definitely put him as one of my most impressive wing chun practitioners. His ability is quite awesome.

I would have to also put Sifu Fong and Sigung Ho. I say these names not because they are my sihing, sifu and sigung, but because I have not seen a lot of other wing chun practitioners.

Rene once showed me a small clip of Sum Num does some chi sau, I was very impressed. I would like to get a chance to see Ken Chung, David Petterson and quite a few others. In time or if they ever visit us Canadians up here in the cold.

Patrick Gordon.

[YungChun]

William Moy
Mickey Chan
Pete Pajil

[kj]

Refreshing! I very much enjoy and appreciate waking up to so many honest and simple expressions of experience and opinion. :)

Without dreaded or nauseating proselytizing, no less. ;) Perhaps there is hope for mankind after all, LOL.

Regards & thanks,
- Kathy Jo

[hakka mui]

most impressive wing chun peeps i have touched hands with

Wong Shun Leung - 'nuff said :D

Ng Chun Hong - senior student of WSL, impressive wing chun

my sifu - sorry had to say that :rolleyes:



wing chun peeps i would like to touch hands with

any surviving Yip Man students - Lok Yiu, TST, Lo Man Kam etc.

kj - KathyJo from this board as i don't get to play very often with other women who have practised for more than 5 years and i like the stuff she posts

Susannah Ho - only female wing chun teacher i have ever found

Ken Chung (sp?) - mostly because of r5a's (over?) enthusiasm for the Leung Sheung lineage

any other women practitioners of wing chun in the whole world especially if they have been training for over 5 years :p

oh and Joy C (yuanfen) - from this board, like the stuff he posts and he has a *wicked* sense of humour

hakka mui

[AndrewP]

I third the opinion of Danny Chan. Last May I had the pleasure of touching hands with him for just a few scant minutes and what I felt blew my mind. I had heard from someone that he was mediocre but that's absolutely wrong. The moment I touched him he had me under control. It's only been a few times where I felt I am really helpless with an individual. He literally could have snuffed me out. The power he had was frightening. So kudos for Danny Chan.

AndrewP

[yuanfen]

Regarding Danny Chan- someone dared to say mediocre? ha ha.
net talk? Good that you (Andrew P)-- corrected that. Regarding Danny- there be dragons there. There is consistency in the transmission to Danny..

he doesnt do videos and doesnt write articles. And he knows that his wing chun works.

[aelward]

I think many of us agree that there is definitely a difference between seeing someone on video (often demonstrating with a cooperative student) and feeling their hands personally. My earlier post was based purely upon people whose hands I had felt; to me, they are the virtually "untouchable" practitioners, who have so much sensitivity and control that they are well beyond 99% of the WC community.

Now there are some other people who I have no doubt are like that, and, judging from the videos and stories, here are some of the practitioners that I'm very impressed with, whose hands I would like a chance to feel someday (and hopefully not get hurt in the process):

Garrett Gee: I was his demonstration dummy for dan chi sao. I have no doubt he is incredible, but that one encounter was so limited.

Lo Man Kam: My own sifu. Sure I've touched his hands, but it was always him giving me openings; I've seen him totally control an obnoxious si-hing while simultaneously yelling at someone across the room.

Lok Yiu: one of the last surviving elders of the YM clan

Tsui Shang Tin: see above

Ho Kam Min: long time student of YM who learned the entire system

Gary Lam: I met a couple of his students, and I liked what they were doing; gotta wonder what the teacher is like

Francis Fong: met him under bad circumstances (funeral), so Wing Chun didn't even come up. But I've met several exceptional students and respect his approach

David Peterson: always getting insights from his writing

Augustine Fong: Met him, saw him demonstrate chi sao tournament rules, but never touched his hands

Emin Boztepe: Saw some clips where he worked a guy in chi sao, couldn't even see his hands move.

Keith Kernspecht: Anyone else see the footage of him keeping the Bulgarian wrestling coach at bay?


Now these people are all alive; I noticed other posters were including dead masters as well... if that were the case, the sky is the limit: Yip Man, Yuen Kay San, Sum Nung, WSL, Leung Sheung, Yip Bo Ching... heck, if we're really including the deceased, definitely Leung Jan (hah, was he REALLY the Wing Chun Wong?), Leung Er-Ti, Wong Wah-Bo. And, if they really existed, Ng Mui and Wing Chun.

[reneritchie]

I've had the chance to hang with Gary Lam sifu and he was definately (beyond WCK) a really great guy. I also had the chance to visit his backyard class and was really impressed with his straight forward and realistic approach. Being a Thai boxer (I believe?) I especially enjoyed his insights on using WCK against those types of kicks, and his general conceptual round up of WCK.

I met Hawkins Cheung and Johnny Wong (student of Ho Kam Ming) during the same period, and was impressed by both as well. What Cheung sifu can do at 5' nothing, barely over 100 lbs, was nothing short of amazing. He was playing Chi Sao with a 200lbs+ visitor from another lineage and had the man falling all over himself, and at one point half-way up a wall. Then he proceeded to show how to defend the shoot against another 200+ lb'er, this one Gracie trained (and anyone who's ever heard Cheung sifu talk can imagine how the accompanying dialog went) Johnny Wong, unfortunately, only visited during Dim Sum, so I didn't get to see him in action, but did enjoy the conversation that ensued.

Had a great chance, thanks to Benny Meng, to meet up with several of Moy Yat sifu's students at the Dayton Friendship Seminar. Due to my own idiocy, I arrived late and thus didn't get the full benefit of their time, but they really covered the gamut from theoretical knowledge to bang'able application. (Forgive me for not listing them, but I fear leaving some out, and slaughtering the spelling of those who I don't).

Likewise, the Friendship Seminars have given me a chance to meet Garette Gee sifu (who I also missed out on a day of, due to my stupidity) who was truly a gentleman, Hendrik Santo whose hypnotically beautiful SLT set is matched by the sheer fightfullness of the power he generates and the depth of Chinese cultural knowledge he shares, John Crescione, Jerry McKinley, and Marty Goldberg who shared equal parts WCK and comic book love (a truly transcendant combination), Ray Van Raamsdonk, Terence Niehoff, and the all the others, who each have given me insights and hints of insights to come.

Jim Roselando, and his search for the elusive Fung's, has been a great source of inspiration and knowledge for me, and his hands get better every time we meet (though he's merciful with me), and his enabling a meeting with Jack Ling (Leung Sheung student) who is one d@mn fine human being, and perhaps the closest I've seen in the Yip Man line to how I learned WCK. (I'm not forgetting all the folks at Ken Chung sifu's but I mentioned him earlier and don't want to make twice as much half as powerful).

Lastly, but certainly not leastly, Robert Chu, whose generosity in sharing his experiences and ideas has been limitless. His approach to WCK is different from what I learned, but is brilliant and firmly rooted in the culture of the art. With his knowledge of TCM, and Western approaches, and his fluency in English, Mandarin, and Cantonese, he's able to explain things in their original cultural context and yet make them instantly accessible to the Western way of thinking.

(Note: I'm avoiding mentioning my sigung, sifu, and sibaksuk because I don't want to sound disingenuous, but suffice it to say, it's because of them, I have so few real questions about WCK).

RR

[aelward]

RR:

LOL, this is beginning to read like the acknowledgement section of a book. There must be something secretly in the works that you are publically denying :P


ah yes, you reminded me about Hawkins Cheung. Definitely want to feel his hands. I met him at the same time I met Augustine Fong. And no, I could barely understand a word he said, except for something about "Duncan (Leung)," "videotape sales," and "kill" :P

[Jim Roselando]

Hey all,


I am real happy to see that this subject has stayed on a positive course! It has just become all too easy to bash, and attack, anyone thanks to a computer now a days and am just happy to see we are making progress. I do thank god for computers as if they were not around I would not be doing what I am doing right now but hopefully we can maintain this positive approach to other topics.


Thanks all for participating in this discussion!


:D


Greetz,

[reneritchie]

Aelward - I could understand a little. It had me cracking up. "How you going to tackle me? I take your side and when you turn I break your face bloody. I 98lbs and I blast right through you". And he did.

Oftentime we see great athletic specimens do things in MA and they get a lot of attention. Personally, not being at all athletic, I find it far more motivating when small, light, not young, not strong people can do things. Gives me some hope.

And LOL!, Yes, acknowledgements as to who has been kind enough to share and keep me inspired, and I would find it almost impossible to constrain myself to 3.

RR

[tparkerkfo]

An adendumm, ack my spelling....

hakka mui mentioned "Ng Chun Hong - senior student of WSL, impressive wing chun". I would like to add him to my list as well. I am not to impressed with many wing chun videos so far. But he has some clips on his site that are VERY refreshing and get tto the heart of what I think wing chun is all about. While clips are VERY hard to judge, I was fairly impressed with his simplicity, directness, and effeciency. And that was just in a teaching mode. LOL. Seems like good stuff.

Tom
________
FETISH SHEMALE (http://www.****tube.com/categories/529/shemale/videos/1)

[dfl]

If you are looking for female WC practitioners, put these 2 on your list:

Sandy Wong (also on John Weiland's list)
Nancy McDonald (A. Fong's senior student)

[Tom Kagan]

(Forgive me for not listing them, but I fear leaving some out, and slaughtering the spelling of those who I don't).

Why? This never stopped you before. :)

I'll give it a go:

At the time of the seminar to which you refer, Moy Yat's students who attended were Leo Imamura, Pete Pajil, Miguel Hernandez, Benny Meng, and me.

I suppose I may have left someone out, but I already get plenty of scut from my SiHings, so a little more because of this would scarcely be noticed. ;)

Anyway, on the subject of this thread, I've been fortunate to have the opportunity to meet and also spend real time with quite a few people who have made lasting and good impressions on me. If I had to limit the list to three, here are my choices, along with my reasons for choosing them (in no particular order):

1. Mak Po

An early student of Yip Man currently residing in San Francisco, and a quiet and true gentleman. However, when it came down to it in Hong Kong, he was "the man." If someone wanted to represent Yip Man's family in a true GongSao for the first time, that person's skills had to be cleared through Mak Po.

Though his martial skills were impeccable, Mak Po himself rarely got involved personally in a GongSao. I believe this was mainly because no one really wanted to challenge him. Even by today's American standards, Mak Po is a big man with an incredible amount of strength, speed, and precision. He used to work for a Hong Kong bus company as a mechanic and would usually dispense with various hoists and dollies to move parts around. He'd just pick the parts up!

Anyone who, in their prime, can lift a dualie rear wheel and tire assembly from a bus and mount it just because its their day to day workload generally doesn't have much to prove. As a rule, someone like that is usually not the first choice in an opponent if someone was looking to prove something, either. :)


2. Jeffrey Chan

One of my SiHings from Hong Kong. He fought and won the last two "official" GongSao matches before the Hong Kong government cracked down and drove people underground or into tournaments.

Once, during a discussion on GongSao, Jeffery made the point about how you don't need to be worried about things happening beyond a certain distance from you. To illustrate his point, he had someone stand 25 feet away from him. Jeffery had the guy start his attack from that distance. When the guy reached the zone where Jeffery felt a fighter should become concerned (about 6-8 feet), Jeffery said outloud, "Now." Just Jeffery's utterance of a single word was enough to freeze the guy in his tracks.

Jeffery is a friendly and outspoken man. His manner of talking is also very animated and includes a large amount of gestures, pokes, taps, and holds on the person to whom he speaks. There are times when you could be bruised up just from dinner conversation. :)

3. Moy Yat

Anyone surprised? :)

Once we had a visitor to our class demonstrate the forms that person had learned elsewhere. When the guy finished, Sifu said: "You learned this part from <Sifu A>, that move from <Sifu B>, this piece from <Sifu C>, this from <Sifu D> ..." The look of astonishment on the guy's face was priceless: Sifu had correctly determined every person with whom the guy had previously studied - a most of them hardly anyone would know; some not even from Yip Man.

Another thing stuck with me from my Sifu:

I have a computer program designed to test a person's reaction time to various stimuli. During Sifu's recuperation from his 2nd stroke, I tested him on the program because both he and I were curious about his rehabilitation efforts.

An average man would react at a speed of around 250 - 350 milliseconds in a straight stimulus-response test. Get this: In his left hand, Moy Yat tested at a dismal 1.6 seconds. [He improved down to below 500 milliseconds before his untimely passing.] Now he's annoyed at himself (and me). As a joke to try and cheer him up, I suggested he work some ChiSao practice into his physical therapy. Before I know it, he's getting out of bed - he was still in the hospital from the stroke - and asking for my hands.

Even though, at times, it appeared he was in slow motion, his skill on the left side was still readily apparent. Like a chess grandmaster, his view of the session extended out quite far. Reaction time (or "fast hands" as my family calls it) was rarely a factor for most of the skills necessary for training. Sifu then relaxed a bit and became a little less annoyed at himself (and me) after that. :cool:

[reneritchie]

Why? This never stopped you before.

Stop riding me, Kaeghan!!!! LOL!

[Mr. Bao]

The Top Three that I have witnessed? Well it is hard to named the top three I have witnessed. If you mean in person or via videos, books? From my personal experience, I have been only to three seminars of three different lineages. I have met and been to the seminars of William Cheung, Duncan Leung, and Yip Chun. I also met many popular sifus in the new york area, and I guess they all have something good about them. Hard to say who is the top or bottom. I am sure they are very good wing chun artists out there that I haven't met in person.

However, the one person outside my school who I am in awe in ability is Duncan Leung. He is very practical and humble about answering my questions and his ability to do wing chun technique under real time, speed, and power is a thing of beautiful. I wish I had his ability.

Everyone has their own expression of the art. You have to admire all who place so much hard work into this art. To name the top three is hard. To focus on three wing chun artists and claiming these were the top best is quite funny and immature to me. Really, when you place someone up in fame or glory, there is someone who you are pushing down or missing. That is why it is difficult for me. I am not even naming Duncan Leung one of the top three and I am very sure he doesn't give #@#@ about these things. I just mentioned him as one of the sifus who has inspired me in this art.

As I am reading the top three, I am glad that most people aren't placing their own lineages down. =)

[yuanfen]

dfl sez:
If you are looking for female WC practitioners, put these 2 on your list:

Sandy Wong (also on John Weiland's list)
Nancy McDonald (A. Fong's senior student)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have heard good things about Sandy Wong.

Re: Nancy McDonald- she has been less active lately. But she is formidable in her wing chun knowledge, chi sao, applications and self defense. And- she has tested her knowledge and knows what works. She is my elder sister as Danny Chan is my elder brother in kung fu and both have helped me immensely. Both Danny and Nancy have taught for Master Fong for a long time.
With Fong's encouragement she also did gim and other weapons work with the great Bow Sim Mark.

[Rolling_Hand]

1. Mak Po

An early student of Yip Man currently residing in San Francisco, and a quiet and true gentleman. However, when it came down to it in Hong Kong, he was "the man." If someone wanted to represent Yip Man's family in a true GongSao for the first time, that person's skills had to be cleared through Mak Po.

Though his martial skills were impeccable, Mak Po himself rarely got involved personally in a GongSao. I believe this was mainly because no one really wanted to challenge him. Even by today's American standards, Mak Po is a big man with an incredible amount of strength, speed, and precision. He used to work for a Hong Kong bus company as a mechanic and would usually dispense with various hoists and dollies to move parts around. He'd just pick the parts up!

Anyone who, in their prime, can lift a dualie rear wheel and tire assembly from a bus and mount it just because its their day to day workload generally doesn't have much to prove. As a rule, someone like that is usually not the first choice in an opponent if someone was looking to prove something, either.

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Mak Po and my uncle both used to work together in Hong Kong. It's nice to see his name here.

[cha kuen]

Here'e my votes,

Tsui Seung Tin
Mun Siew Hong
Ng Chun Hong

Wing Chun Books (http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=taichimaster06&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=25)

[yylee]

here are mine :)

TST - he looks like a gentleman with zero Kung Fu exposure, just a regular Hong Kong elderly guy, but once he starts his WC engine he is truely amazing.

Ho Kam Ming - he's got a ton of things to tell you, like Jaan Dai Lik, Center line, how to punch, etc ...... a gold mine of knowledge.

Wang Kiu - got to admit love his sense of humour, all of his vivid memories of the good old Gong Sau days, and the way he tell his stories (roll on floor and laugh for days, ROFLFD). A lovely 80-years-old, still shows the kid in him from time to time.

[MonkeyBoy]

I've met a few but Robert Chu and William Cheung are the only ones I've met worth meeting.

I'd list my first Wing Chun instructor but I get flamed too much as it is.

[S.Teebas]

TST - he looks like a gentleman with zero Kung Fu exposure

Well he's been doing WC for over 50 years, i wouldn't call that zero kung fu exposure.

[cha kuen]

S teebas,

He said that TST "LOOKS" like he has zero exposure to kung fu. I think he meant that TST doesn't look like a wing chun sifu if you saw him on the street.

Where as if you see a Hung Gar master on the street, you could probably tell a little bit because of his built.

[black and blue]

Take me for example - I don't look much, but I'm actually pretty dangerous and a fab bloke too.

On the street I just look like Joe Public begging to be mugged by a gang of street-wandering children.

[yylee]

Originally posted by cha kuen
He said that TST "LOOKS" like he has zero exposure to kung fu. I think he meant that TST doesn't look like a wing chun sifu if you saw him on the street.


thanks cha kuen, that's exactly what I mean.

besides, some old fashioned Chinese Sifu have this "Sifu gesture"; they act with the kind of "I am your almightly sifu, when I talk, you gotta keep quiet and listen son, got that!" attitude. But TST does NOT have any of that, a very kind man.

other WC people that I want to meet:

1) Rene Ritchie - I want to know if he really speaks Mandarin ;)
2) Hendrik - I want to know if my English is worse than his :D

[zerozero]

Just wanted to say that I am enjoying this thread very much, especially the personal recollections and stories. Really brings out the human side. Thanks very much to all for sharing.

[S.Teebas]

thanks cha kuen, that's exactly what I mean.

Thanks for clarifying.

[stuartm]

Hi,

The top three is a difficult one, here are a few and not all Wing Chun (controversial!!):

1. Samuel Kwok - my teacher i know, but why would i represent him if i didnt think he was the best.

2. Ip Ching - Having had the opportunity to Chi Sao with him recently its fair to say the man is pretty **** hot!

3. Ip Chun - defensively, i think he's the best there is and very good at explaining WC theory

4. Gordon Faulkener - teaches the Chanquanshu sytem incorporating the 3 main internal arts. His seminar is proabably the most mindblowing demo of Tai Chi / Bagua / Hsing I application i have ever seen.

5. The two Chinese lads we saw doing gor sau in the temple in Foshan after the ceremony. Dont know who you are but you were good !

Best Wishes, Stuart

[mun hung]

Aside from my own SiFu, I would have to say without a doubt - Duncan Leung. A truly amazing individual. A real source of inspiration. (and perspiration - if you've ever worked out with him)

I found his hands to be very sharp, smooth, and unbroken and the incredible power he generates with them is nothing short of scarey. I have yet to see anyone who even comes close to his skills in fighting and application in person, book or video.

My next choice would probably be Bruce Lee. How many of us can say that we've even come close to the shape he was in. Besides, without him - most of us would probably be taking up ballroom dancing. And although he was'nt the best Wing Chun man in my book - Lord Bruce did bring it out to the world for us all to see and we owe him that much. (I could'nt count the number of times I've seen "Enter the Dragon")

[reneritchie]

yylee-

Wo shuo yi dian dian (or yi di'ar if I let my Beijing accent slip in ;) )

Hendrik speaks interesting English. Whenever I see the chairman from the Ironchef, I think fondly of Hendrik. Luckily, WCK is a transcendant language and whether it be in a roomful of Cantonese, around a table of Chin'glish, or on an English message board of questionable literacy level, the WCK will out...

RR

[wingchunalex]

1. wong sheung leung(i was impressed with his video)
2.ngo liu kay (sorry about the spelling, and i only know from rene's book, no live action).
3. augustine fung (only from what i've read)

[byond1]

hi guys....fun post....had to jump in on this one
top 3 ive met?? ...this is a tough one...ive met a lot of reallly great wc guys but
1) lee gar lin.....ive never met someone who could generate this powerfull elastic wet noodle ging....he generated so much chi through his bridge during chi sao you could feel his arms emenating warmth...
2)eddie chong ....had the soft touch...real sensitive...after touching hands with another ken chung student i have to say that his(eddies) learning from pan nam took him to a new level
3)jason lau......no matter what you did you got cut off and hit...good blend of soft and hard...he knew when to use the yin and when to use the yang


top 3 old school guys i want to meet?
1) tst
2)fung chun
3)lok yiu

top new generation master i want to meet?
1) zopa gyatso
2) fung keung
3) henry mui
4) sum dot?sp
5) ken chung


top sifu i also really want to meet and spend time with?
1)jim rosleando
2)rene ritchie
3)hendrik santo
4) andreas hoffman

[kj]

Impressive list, Byond1. What happened to your old handle?

FWIW, Ken does not wish to be referred to as master. He frequently says he prefers to remain a humble student of Wing Chun. I mention this mainly to avoid a sin of omission, as he is pretty adamant about it. I have seen Zopa express a similar sentiment on many occasions.

My apologies for picking such a nit, yet I think it constructive to note that these gentleman do.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[Grendel]

Originally posted by byond1
2)eddie chong ....had the soft touch...real sensitive...after touching hands with another ken chung student i have to say that his(eddies) learning from pan nam took him to a new level

LOL! Any improvement in Eddie's hands after "learning from Pan Nam" is purely coincidental. Eddie has had very good hands for a long time.

Regards,

[t_niehoff]

I don't want to rain on everyone's parade, but it seems to me that a person's appreciation of "art" -- including martial art -- will depend to a very great degree on their personal level of understanding and skills, the breadth of their exposure to WCK practitioners, etc. Not everyone has the acquired taste, knowledge, sensitivity, etc. to appreciate a Picasso over "Dogs Playing Poker" or a Lafite-Rothchild over a Boone's Farm and so on. So I wonder if a question like the one Jim posed doesn't say more about us than it does the practitioners we admire. TN

A second consideration is - going back to the automobile driving analogy - not just how well someone can drive (or use their WCK) but at how high a speed (the intensity level) can they continue to drive well. I've seen some so-called masters and grandmasters that can perform splendidly at 30 mph but can't make what they do work at 70 mph. TN

Terence

[Fresh]

Originally posted by t_niehoff
I don't want to rain on everyone's parade, but

You made some good points but your message makes this seems a little like a fib. :D

[Jim Roselando]

Hello all,


Terence is correct! This topic will vary depending on level of understanding and exposure. Someone once told me:

Jim, once you have witnessed good, what you thought was good will no longer be good!


So! I think it is fun to see what we all come up with as we all have different opinions/views and it was good to see that this topic avoided the common BS/bashing of most topics.


BTW: Byond1! I am "NO" top sifu at all! WC is just my hobby and claim no great expertise.


See ya,

[S.Teebas]

Jim, once you have witnessed good, what you thought was good will no longer be good!

I think this is a very valid point. I know it true for me, some things I didn't see as good when I first started really blow my mind nowadays. I think these are because there are subtleties we cant understand till we ourself have firm understandings of certain basics.

[Jim Roselando]

BINGO!

:D

[byond1]

hi guys!!
as all things in life, our referance point is what we base our opinion on. i agree this list tells more about us than anything....but isnt that the point? to always look at our selves and reevaluate where we are....anytime a box is formed we need to break out of that box and look out side it....i found this to be a fun way of doing so.....
as to the terms i choose to use.....i used the terms to represent generation ...i basically wanted to include "grandmaster". "master", and "instructor" ...i had to use "some" grammer to limit my meaning so everyone knew what the heck i was talking about....many people on my list refuse any title (to there credit) and are very humble and this only adds to my honest admiration of these gentleman.

im hopeing to make it to cali this year k.j... for the summer retreat.....it will be a blast meeting everyone finally....there are so many discussion groups im getting at my old handle i can barly receive email ..lol....so i finally got of my bum and opened a fresh email address
brian

[kj]

Originally posted by byond1
im hopeing to make it to cali this year k.j... for the summer retreat.....it will be a blast meeting everyone finally....

May 2, 3 & 4th (http://www.rochesterwingchun.com/RWC_files/pages/Wing_Chun_Camp.htm) - save the dates. :)

Regards,
- Kathy Jo