How do you spar??

[Wilson]

I've been doing a lot of thinking about sparring. I've trained in JKD, Muay Thai and now mostly Wing Chun. It was easy to spar in Muay Thai because all you have to do is tone it down a little, square off, and go at it like you would in a ring. With Wing Chun, its a more difficult because I don't like the whole "square off and go at it" because it makes it more of a sport atmosphere. In reality, you'd be trying to end it quickly.....whether it be a kick to the knee, hitting the opponent while off balance, percussion hitting, whatever.

Last night I tried some "situational" sparing and I liked it. One drill was, one person was standing relaxed, another came up from the side and thru a punch. Then you reacted and went from there. Others could be squaring off with the assumption that 1 is the attacker, the other defends, and go from there.

I don't know if I'm explaining myself well. What I don't like is getting into hit for hit, back out - go in, dance around type sparring. I'd rather try to simulate real fight situations, if possible. Even if the other guy dances, I'll stand with hands out and wait, react and try to end quickly. Or if I want to attack first, its on my terms....not by jabbing and dancing.

I think stand up sparring needs to evolve. Grappling sparring is great because it is always situational. The moves you spar with are exactly what you would be doing. I don't think everyone spars stand up the same way. You train one way and say you'd do something else in a real situation.

How do you guys spar Kung Fu?? How do you keep it as "real" as you can? What situations do you try to simulate? What gear do you use? What rules do you use to keep it "sane". Thanks for the help.

[Ford Prefect]

Violence doesn't solve a thing. Didn't Jesus teach us anything?

[SevenStar]

I think stand up sparring needs to evolve.

No it doesn't. Sparring is just that - sparring. and there are alot of lessons to be learned from it; how to take3 a hit, dealing with adrenaline, timing, distancing, etc. a situational drill is just that - a drill. you are trying to simulate a real situation as realistically as possible while wtill being safe. They are separate tools, take them for what they are. Sparring however, will serve as an evvective method of training, especially over the short term. In the street, I'd put my money on a 6 month boxer any day over a 6 month CMA, unless he's training something like shuai chiao.

The thing you have to remember is that while sparring you are training against another skilled opponent. if your opponenet is untrained, he's not going to have the same understanding of timing, distance, etc. and you may be able to end it quickly and easily, as you have that advantage.

If you want to combine them though, find the thread Ryu started a month or two ago about situational awareness drills and try them. He does situational drills full contact, and they sound pretty good.

[SevenStar]

I don't think everyone spars stand up the same way. You train one way and say you'd do something else in a real situation.


you train the way you fight. What they SAY they'd do doesn't mean jack. what will matter is what their body is used to doing.

[Wilson]

you train the way you fight

Or fight the way you train. That is the point. I want to make sure the training is as close to what I want to happen in a real situation. I don't want to dance and trade blows like in the ring. I've done a lot of that.

I agree, being able to take hits and dealing with incoming blows is extemely important. The reason a 6 month boxer will usually take a 6 months CMA student is the training methods. My question is really how can CMA students spar effectively without resorting to standard sport sparring. Just looking for ideas.

I did read Ryu's post and thought the ideas were good.

[Liokault]

I think SevenStar is correct about this......you wont here that ofton.


Sparring is sparring......I think you are looking for somthing else altogether.

Try reading "animal day" by Geoff Thompson. Or anything by him for that matter.

[Stacey]

I spar like a gerbil tearing its way out of a gay man's ass.

[Wilson]

Maybe I am looking for something different. I want to practice something other than squaring off like a sport situation. If you want to call it "drill" or "sparring" or whatever, it doesn't matter.

My concern is that I used to only think of sparring as putting on the gloves, going for a minute or two with the opponent and then stopping. Well, in a fight, I don't want to be duking it out, back and forth, for a minute or two. I want to be in a situation to nuetralize the attack, and then respond in a quick, efficient manner.

I guess what I'm asking is how do you spar? What do you look to get out of it. And, do the two compliment each other. Do you spar differently when thinking of using your kung fu in street situations, than say if you're training for a boxing or MT match? The two are obviously not the same, so should the training reflect that? Thanks for the responses.

[Wilson]

Liokault - thanks for the recommendation on the book. I checked it out and will be buying it soon. Looks like a lot of good books on reality training by him.

[SevenStar]

ROFL @ Liokault actually agreeing with me....even though I'm usually right anyway :p :D

as for what you were looking for, here's the thing - you don't "resort to sport sparring" If you know the principles behind the techniques you are doing, you will use them when you spar. When I see MonkeyslapToo go at it, for example, he doesn't look like a sport fighter - he looks like a shuai chiao/kuntao guy. he uses the principles of his art and applies them to what he is doing. get the movement down, the footwork - the essesnce of your style. you aren't going to be able to realistically pracitce eye gouges, claws, etc. at a realistic speed. but you can use principles - yielding, shearing, etc. in conjunction with your fists, palms, etc - strikes you can effectively use. If you do that, you won't look or fight like a sport fighter.

[LEGEND]

I guess what I'm asking is how do you spar? What do you look to get out of it. And, do the two compliment each other. Do you spar differently when thinking of using your kung fu in street situations, than say if you're training for a boxing or MT match?
The two are obviously not the same, so should the training reflect that?


"CMA sparring should be very similar to other standup boxing styles! The problem with you is u want to DOMINATE your opponent. Well when u're sparring with a partner it's very difficult to DESTROY him for friendship and experience reasons. Since u're not trying to decapitate your training partner u can only go hard somewhat and YES unfortunately u will get into a toe to toe situation. You just have to keep score and recognize that yeah...that 1-2 combo would have caused damaged and really stun him...but due to 16 oz gloves and thick headgear...it didn't! In wing chun however...u should be able to hit and not be hit in theory by trapping him or applying forward pressure!

Now wing chun is not a simple art by any means due to TIMING. If he is able to go toe to toe with u after a wing chun entry it means u're not applying forward pressure enuf or u didn't sweep him to the ground.

[LEGEND]

I guess what I'm asking is how do you spar? What do you look to get out of it. And, do the two compliment each other. Do you spar differently when thinking of using your kung fu in street situations, than say if you're training for a boxing or MT match?
The two are obviously not the same, so should the training reflect that?


"CMA sparring should be very similar to other standup boxing styles! The problem with you is u want to DOMINATE your opponent. Well when u're sparring with a partner it's very difficult to DESTROY him for friendship and experience reasons. Since u're not trying to decapitate your training partner u can only go hard somewhat and YES unfortunately u will get into a toe to toe situation. You just have to keep score and recognize that yeah...that 1-2 combo would have caused damaged and really stun him...but due to 16 oz gloves and thick headgear...it didn't! In wing chun however...u should be able to hit and not be hit in theory by trapping him or applying forward pressure!

Now wing chun is not a simple art by any means due to TIMING. If he is able to go toe to toe with u after a wing chun entry it means u're not applying forward pressure enuf or u didn't sweep him to the ground.

[SevenStar]

Now wing chun is not a simple art by any means due to TIMING. If he is able to go toe to toe with u after a wing chun entry it means u're not applying forward pressure enuf or u didn't sweep him to the ground.

you're referring to a WC guy fighting a non trained opponent, right?

[LEGEND]

you're referring to a WC guy fighting a non trained opponent, right.

No I'm not...if u're training with classmates...depending on their level is less than yours then yes u should be able to apply forward pressure and they would not be able to retaliate effectively or at all. Hell my sifu use to tie me up in KNOTs!

[SevenStar]

I'm not thinking about classmates, but more along the lines of different styles. If that were the case, WC would dominate everybody...

[yenhoi]

We shouldent single WCK out. In any art or style if you are clearly of a higher level of skill in applying those principles, and nderstaing those types of motions you will dominate those of lesser skill in the same. BJJ is a good example. Tai Chi. etc. etc.


When we "sparr" we put on gloves to protect your hands, not the opponent's face. SOmetimes headgear, sometimes not. ( I like the thiner boxing headgear, the less padding the better - padding makes your head a bigger target.) Jock strap. SOme people wear shin guards and forarm guards, those of us with enough conditioning dont. Then you go at it. How hard depends on what you agreed to, or in the middle of a round if someone goes too hard, then you go harder etc. Rules change constantly, sometimes teacher just decides certain types of techniques arent allowed, or arent allowed by one person, etc. Variety is key. We sparr nearly every training session or class session.

You fight the way you train. Besides sparring, (training sparring, as well as a host of other smaller attributes, one being aliveness and another being application...) you must also TRAIN sensitivity, speed, etc, etc, etc. You can focus on these things outside of sparring, with great results when it comes to application. A good example is a Filipino salute drill, depending on your focus, you can develop speed, sensitivity, or a list of other attributes, but what you actually 'do' in the drill hardly resembles fighting.

Sparring, situational drills, adrenaline dump drills, sensitivity drills, blah blah blah, all these things develop specific attributes (attributes that make up YOU) all of which are essential when the **** hits the fan. The more you sparr the better you get at sparring, whatever the rules or format. Attributes, attributes, attributes, and self examination.

Nothing you do specifically (except for actually fighting) will actually make you a better fighter.

[SevenStar]

yeah, no doubt. I singled out WC since that was the example he gave. In his original reply, he didn't say a lesser skilled opponent, so I was thinking he was referring to ANYBODY, not just lesser skilled people.

[yenhoi]

Merry Thanksgiving 7*!

:cool:

[YungChun]

As was mentioned why is there a need to use sport sparring in Wing Chun? The only reason to do sport sparring in Wing Chun is if you want to compete in a sport event.

The traditional way to 'spar' in Wing Chun is an extension of Chi-Sao. The progression being: Chi-Sao, Long Arm Chi-Sao and then no contact = fight. The two students square off and someone says 'go!' The objective is for one of the students to take control of the partner using whatever techniques needed. The contact can be medium to hard and usually guys can control hits enough not to hurt each other very much. This traditionally is done with no gear but gear can certainly be used. One of the reasons this 'works' is that each fighter will attack the Centerline so there is a clash and each student will normally seek a bridge to work from and then it's more like the Chi-Sao again but brief. Even doing regular Chi-Sao enthusiastic players will get separated and continue the ‘match’ - this is similar to the fight drill.

I believe in also training to the extent possible against people using other styles so people in the school who have other experience can come in handy. I also like the scenario drills mentioned before - street attack, etc.

For anyone interested in testing their Kung-Fu in one of the latest reality test fads checkout Bullet Men scenario seminars. They look like loads of fun and I'd love to chain punch one of those guys in the suits.

Happy Turkey Day!

[jun_erh]

guy in my class was sparring a girl. In a quick motion, she pulled back his cup and punched him in the genitals. I was glad to hear she got injured recently

[Chang Style Novice]

"How do you spar??"

With pitifully meager competence.

[Sharky]

totally naked.

right after my pedicure.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Sharky
totally naked.

right after my pedicure.

Saucy!

[Xebsball]

LOL :D