Have Martial Arts Lost The Martial and Just Become Art????

[Geezer]

Rene Wrote>

If someone insults you (not you Sheldon, the generic plural you), and you cream them, you're a fool and will likely go to jail, where you'll probably find out pretty quickly what being on the receiving end of things feels like. If someone insults the martial arts you practice, and you threaten them, you're beyond a fool (and should really seek psycological help for anger management, impulse control, ego wrangling, and emotional attachment prioritization, etc.). Fight to protect yourself, your family, and your land from threat of physical violence. Otherwise, if it ain't true, answer it in kind or laugh it off.

What is you're thinking on the throwing down of the Gauntlet, the gun slingers of the old west or the slapping across the face with a glove these normally arose out of some type of insult be it from a verbal type to friend or family.
Do you think these people were completely out of place for what they did, twisted maybe in some way.??
Are you prepared to fight for family "and' close friends if the need arose, do you see you're Sifu as family, what about classmates.??

Rene Wrote>

If someone insults the martial arts you practice, and you threaten them, you're beyond a fool (and should really seek psycological help for anger management, impulse control, ego wrangling, and emotional attachment prioritization, etc.).

I can understand if it's someone on the outside looking in but what about if they're on the inside as well, doesn't this then become Clan like.

When you grew up did you run with a crew/gang of friends who all looked out for one another.??



Please don't take offence to this it's not a flame, I'm just a little interested in what people think on this subject and I'm not a "nutcase" either.

Sheldon:rolleyes:;)

[reneritchie]

There's an oft quoted saying - And eye for an eye leaves everyone blind. This type of behavior leads to things like the 'Troubles', the Middle-East conflict, various African intertribal warfare, problems in the Balcans, etc. etc.

In times past there were bullies, thugs, and all sorts of unsavory characters. There were also statesmen, however, who could turn hearts and change minds not through the strength of sinew, muscle, or bone (though some had that as well), but through the strength of character, intellect, and compassion.

Should Gandi have gone around slugging people? Should Martin Luther King have picked up an AK47? No. Nonsense. There is a time and a place for the stategic application of physical violence, and like most things, indescriminate application leads to lessened effect when truly warrented.

Children get into shoving matches over insults. Adults understand its often an expression of impotence and frustration, and there are more effective (and far nastier) ways of answering them. (Note: There are also legitimate criticisms which many would rather meet with threats than face with honesty, and this too is a cheap and easy way out).

I remember and old Patrick Swayze movie (Road House) where he said his bouncers had to be nice. One asked what if they called his mother a wh0re. Patrick responded, is she?

If you're secure in yourself and your abilities, insults pose no threat. If you respond, especially if you sink to do so, you only validate them. In fact, if people know you're likely to respond in certain way, it makes you easy for them to manipulate (not good, strategically speaking).

BTW- Something I heard you might appreciate: Apparently John Cleese (sp?) has been hired by DC comics to write "What if Superman's rocket had crashed in England?" The story will involve Supes being raised by a British family, and all the hilarity that will ensue (especially his being constantly hounded by the tabloids).

RR

[Frank Exchange]

Well, I just hope that his rocket landed in 50s england. Then it would be like a Enid Blyton novel, all baggy shorts and rubber soled shoes.

Tousled headed chums called "Ginger" and "Chalky" White, long summer evenings, roly-poly pudding with lashings of ginger beer, "I say you chaps! Last one to the cricket pavilion's a bad egg!". Could probably knock up some sort of evil Nazi conspiracy he could foil as well. Maybe something to do with closing the village post office.

God help us if it landed in the 60s, he would have some sort of Union Jack underpants on and an appalling Austin Powers accent. Hey, there would be loads of girls in Miniskirts though...

I digress...

[Geezer]

Man, Jack Kirby was cool,

http://www.vitrex.net/~psy35/pics/captainb-a.jpg

Sheldon:D

[Marshdrifter]

Wait, wasn't Captain Britain the drunkard in Excalibur?

It's been a long time since I've read superhero comics.

[Grendel]

Originally posted by Marshdrifter
Wait, wasn't Captain Britain the drunkard in Excalibur?

It's been a long time since I've read superhero comics.
Not long enough, apparently. :D

[planetwc]

Sheldon,

Here at least in the good old USA, there are somethings to consider in terms of fighting at the drop of a hat.

1. Jail Time.
2. Legal ramifications
3. Firearms

In terms of all the macho posturing, firearms are the great equalizer. Anyone here can use a shotgun or handgun and all of one's kiu sau, bong sau, grappling and chung choy will be for nil. That's where things can escalate to. In the scheme of things is dying over what someone posted in a forum or in a bar worth it?

This isn't the 15th century, and duels aren't legal in the US nor probably in the European Union. Course then again, duels were more likely had by the upper class. If you were some commoner, they'd just have you killed or thrown in debtor's prison.

So what in reality are we training for? To learn to kill people?
To beat them up so badly they end up in a coma?
To beat them up they require hospitalization?

What's more effective, "martial arts training" or learning to shoot someone at close range with a shotgun or large caliber handgun or slipping in close and cutting their throat with a knife? And of course there is always explosives.

Why bother with forms and punching drills etc.

Let's be honest about this, the times when people would actually use this are most likely few and far between. And how many people train their art as a way of learning to take a life or seriously harm someone?

How much of that is your daily mindset, and if so, are you really able to compartmentalize that from how you should act around your family?

And more importantly, are you willing to deal with the consequences of dealing out such violence to someone?

The law and/or THEIR friends/family may have some retribution in mind for you.

[Grendel]

Hi Sheldon,

Originally posted by Geezer
What is you're thinking on the throwing down of the Gauntlet, the gun slingers of the old west or the slapping across the face with a glove these normally arose out of some type of insult be it from a verbal type to friend or family. (sic)
Do you think these people were completely out of place for what they did, twisted maybe in some way.??

Don't you think they may have been a tad abby-normal? :D Gun fights as duels were pretty rare. Mostly gunfights in the Old West were like todays', with some punk with a gun spying an enemy and usually without warning, just opening up. Even in the Old West, you didn't get away with that. After the American Civil War, nearly every man was carrying a gun and could use it. Crime was best kept secret or the punishment would be immediate and lethel.

What would a challenge match in Wing Chun look like today? Consider the famous fight of years past between Emin Boeztepe and William Cheung---was there anything settled by it? Was there a winner?

Times have changed. As Planet Wing Chun pointed out, the era of duels is past, due to legal changes and societal disdain for such.


Are you prepared to fight for family "and' close friends if the need arose, do you see you're Sifu as family, what about classmates.?? (sic)

Isn't studying Wing Chun "preparing" to fight for cause? This doesn't mean fighting without a cause. To be realistic about fighting in today's world is to take into account that real street fights and self-defense is a dirty business and not to be taken lightly.


I can understand if it's someone on the outside looking in but what about if they're on the inside as well, doesn't this then become Clan like.

I don't follow. :confused:


When you grew up did you run with a crew/gang of friends who all looked out for one another.??

Not really. I looked out for my friends, but I never counted on anyone else to back me up. :D


Please don't take offence to this it's not a flame, I'm just a little interested in what people think on this subject and I'm not a "nutcase" either.

I didn't suspect you were a nutcase; truth to tell, I have posed the same question often. :) Like most serious martial artists, I also get tired of the posturing and assertions that take place on the Internet and have to remind myself, in the final analysis, talk is cheap, and we have better things to do than nurse a grudge.

There is a lot of satisfaction to be contemplated through giving some well-deserved ass-kicking. However, I wouldn't give in to the impulse even if I could conveniently track down every troll or nutcase. One has to ask, what is the relative importance of the confrontation? Mostly, I just feel sorry for the folks who are deluded by teachers who are deficient or just interested in money. Challenging or fighting these sort would give me no satisfaction.

Fighting should be a last resort for those real occasions when there is no alternative short of receiving injury to yourself or others. Lesser challenges of the thrown gauntlet sort tend to be egotistical hotheads blowing off steam. Better to let them cool down on their own. I'm not a Buddhist, but if I may say, leave the mentally unbalanced to their own karma and avoid them.

It's fundamental to say Yung ching butt har sao; har sao butt yung ching---If you have sympathy, don't fight; if you must fight, have no sympathy.

Regards,

[reneritchie]

Captain Britain was darn cool. England has some superlative authors such as Alain Moore and Neil Gaiman. Captain Briton, on the other hand, was just goofy and a bad charatcer with a bad helmet. League of Extraordinary Gentleman was transcendant, though the Americanized movie could be a decidely mixed bag, even with Connery.

[Geezer]

PlanetWC Wrote>

Here at least in the good old USA, there are somethings to consider in terms of fighting at the drop of a hat.
1. Jail Time.
2. Legal ramifications
3. Firearms


1,I have a question, say you were travelling back from another country, lets say "England", you bought lots of goodies. You have loads of things you should declare to customs, if you think you have a chance of getting away with it will you
a,go through the Nothing To Declare or b, Declare All Items??


PanetWC Wrote>

And more importantly, are you willing to deal with the consequences of dealing out such violence to someone?

I told my Old Man I was looking into purchasing a firearm not too long ago for home protection, his first words were are you prepared to shoot and kill someome if the need arose(e.g.someone breaks into your home) I didn't have to think about it I said " yes", if someone was to break into my house I couldn't live with anything happening to my wife.
Now if you were to try and break into my house I'd like to see them get past my 90lb & 150lb Rotts.

Sheldon;)

[Sandman2[Wing Chun]]

Originally posted by reneritchie
England has some superlative authors such as Alain Moore and Neil Gaiman.

Absolutely Correct, let there be no doubt!!!



Captain Briton, on the other hand, was just goofy and a bad charatcer with a bad helmet.

Also correct.



League of Extraordinary Gentleman was transcendant, though the Americanized movie could be a decidely mixed bag, even with Connery.

Wow, they are making a movie out of LOEG? Any idea if it follows the story of the first series, or is it a new treatment?

[reneritchie]

Sandman2[Wing Chun]


Absolutely Correct, let there be no doubt!!!

Mr. Murphy is correct (as he is always lest he ask his sister to visit).


Wow, they are making a movie out of LOEG? Any idea if it follows the story of the first series, or is it a new treatment?

It follows the theft of an antigravity element. Here's a tracking of the details: http://www.corona.bc.ca/films/details/loeg.html

Mr. Connery's teaser trailor should be in theaters now (attached to some Bond showings) and hopefully the 'net soon.

RR