GrAdInGs.....black sash in two/three years????

[Mizong_Kid]

hello.....

i read from another old post that some people on the board dislike paying for gradings.....or having to have sashes/belts....

but i guess most would agree this would be the only way to learn more.....i mean what the sifu teaches you is valuable information.....so he should have a right to charge a grading fee....i thought nearly every school does this anyway.......

but the idea of reaching black sash in two years did baffle me a bit....okay to those that are naturally gifted in kungfu, reaching black sash in two years is not a big deal......

but to those like myself who arent so gifted....reaching black sash in two years....even if i were to be training consistently and putting in a lot of effort in classes.....i'd still feel it would be a bit too soon........despite the good feeling of achieving upto a certain level....

i mean i hav seen some brown sashes who are not that good at all......kicks and forms looking a bit too dodgy.....yet because they paid for it....they have reached that level....

i would rather have sifu tell me i wasnt good enough to proceed to the next level.....that way i know where i stand and can work harder to sort it out.........

what do you guys think???

[David Jamieson]

don't let a belt or sash put so much weight on you mind.

kungfu will come with diligent practice and perseverance in the artform.

the coveted "black sash" is the first step towards kungu, not the last. its the door opener.

many kungfu teachers don't even use a belt or sash grading, some do.

and in some curriculums it is of course possible to "open the door" in 2 years or so.

you'll find that in japaness systems where the belt has much more meaning attached to it that it takes a pretty long time to get to black belt. and then therer are many levels after that.

anyway, just continue doing what you're doing and it will work out.

peace

[OneStrike]

You can't really compare belt standards across arts or sometimes even organisations. Everyone seems to have their own idea of what it means to be a blackbelt.

[SevenStar]

I place no weight at all in a belt ranking, except for in bjj - If you have a black belt in bjj, you definitely earned it - and you don't pay for gradings - at least not where I train.

as for other styles, it seems nowadays that there are a lot of styles who

1. grade too soon
2. charge money - In some cases, more money as your rank gets higher.

but i guess most would agree this would be the only way to learn more.....i mean what the sifu teaches you is valuable information.....so he should have a right to charge a grading fee....

If you are paying for your lessons, then you are already paying him for the information he is giving you.

but the idea of reaching black sash in two years did baffle me a bit....okay to those that are naturally gifted in kungfu, reaching black sash in two years is not a big deal......

Two years is far too soon, IMO.

[SevenStar]

and pretty much everything kung lek said - especially about the Japanese systems.

[yenhoi]

Belts and sashes are only a very very rough guideline to judge very general skill levels.

Inside your school the belts will have different meanings.

When you walk into a unfamiliar school, belts give you a general read on those people. Person talking to you wearing a black belt with all the honors, must at least think he is of that level, and he might be, as far as his school is concerned.

BJJ belts are very consistent across the board. Havent rolled with a BJJ brown or black that hasent just wiped the board with me. I did see that BJJ McDojo.com, but have never seen a BJJ McDojo first hand. On that note, I have been to many many many TKD, Kung-fu, Karate, filipino, even Israeli McDojos - even sparred at some of these places, you name it, red sashes, black sashes, blackbelts with 7 stripes, the works, some peoples hands just dont hold upto thier dojo's belt.

[Sho]

But sashes are good for dividing a class into different parts, where others train different things. For example, you would put ones that range from orange to green to train this particular form and then for instance yellow ones to practice more basic techniques. In this sense, sashes become very handy.

[African Tiger]

Makes sense to me, Sho. I'd be lucky to see my black sash before I turn 40 :o

[Lowlynobody]

How long would it take the average BJJ stylist to reach his/her black belt rank in your school?


Lowlynobody.

[Mizong_Kid]

i keep seeing BJJ mentioned.......

its all about KUNGFU!!!!!! YEAHHHHHHHH!!!!!! :D

[Lowlynobody]

The truth is this forum is a BJJ forum and all the other stuff about kung fu is to sucker us kung fu guys in. So then they can tell us all about how if someone wants to grapple you your going to get grappled, etc.


What was that about a BJJ McDojo?

[yenhoi]

There is some stuff on www.mcdojo.com about a BJJ mcdojo.


Check it out. That is the only BJJ mcdojo claim that I know of.


If you pick a BJJ black belt at random, and pick a Kung-fu black sash at random, most likely, the BJJ black belt IS a higher level person, and the kung-fu guy will be a pansy, dim mak weilding, air-punching wimp. Most likely. Well, if you were only picking from America and Europe - Id hate to catch a real black sash cma dude from china after he has read my post..... :D

[TaoBoy]

Elapsed time is irrelevant.
Only actual training time is relevant.

If I study 6 hours a day, 4 days a week and someone else trains 2 hours a day, 2 days a week, I think it would be fair to assume that after two years I would be leaps and bounds ahead in knowledge and ability.

In BJJ for example, a BB can take 8-10 years. BJ Penn got his BB in about 4 (correct me if I'm wrong) - does this mean his BB is worth less. No way. He earned it.

[Serpent]

And besides, anybody that is in it for the black belt is totally missing the point.

[Shadowboxer]

I got my Black sash after 3 months. But, the thing is we start with the black sash and as you progress the sashes get lighter in color to reflect ability and enlightenment. Sifu wears a gold sash only at test time until one of his students trains another sifu, then his sash will become white. I've been training for almost 3 years and have a green sash (FWIW) and I'm only about 1/3 of the way through the system. It's all relative and about perspective. We only wear sashes at test time. Otherwise, you can tell where someone is by their level of ability and what they can/can't do.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Lowlynobody
How long would it take the average BJJ stylist to reach his/her black belt rank in your school?


Lowlynobody.

our purple belts have been at it for around 3.5 - 4 years - and that's training 4 days a week for 2.5 - 3 hours per session. The time will vary from person to person, however.

[OneStrike]

I reckon ten years is about average for a BJJ blackbelt. Some instructors are tougher, some are less tough, but ten years is a good rough estimate.

[David Jamieson]

10 years of diligent study and practice of anything will bring you on some level or degree of personal mastery in that subject.

doesn't mean you stop. as you continue forward with anything you will get better and better.

eventually, sash/belt, what have you will have no relevance at all.

so continue!

peace

[phoenix-eye]

Taoboy got it spot on. Shaolin monk Shi Yanzi made exactly that point when we had a seminar with him - he has trained 6-8 hours each day for 20 years. If I only train 2 hrs - 3 times a week then how can I suggest that I'll ever be anywhere near his level.

However, in my club we do wear sashes but it is just an internal ranking system and a goal setting mechanism. Sifu has always said that the black sash only indicates that your basics are at a sufficient level to begin the real training.

When we trained with Shi Yanzi - Sifu made everyone remove their sashes - including himself.

In other words - outside our club the sash is meaningless.

[OneStrike]

I don't agree that two equally gifted people will progress to the same level after putting in the same amount of "contact hours". I don't think it's that simple.

One of the most important things in acquiring a physical skill IMO is committing it to muscle memory, being able to do something without thinking about it. I think this happens gradually and you just have to wait for it to happen. If you train a technique and drill it enough to keep it fresh in your memory over a longer period of time, it'll be more thoroughly assimilated than someone who has just drilled the technique for the same amount of time but in the course of one day.

I'd be willing to bet that out of two people who've trained at the same intensity and in the same way for the same number of contact hours, the one who has done so over the longer period of time will be more comfortable with the techniques.

Of course, it's not that simple either: you have to train for a long enough period of time that you can effectively drill the technique in each session, you have to maintain the regularity of the training and you have to ensure that there's not enough time between sessions to get rusty. But take a guy who trains two hours over two days in a week and another guy who trains four hours over two days in a week and I guarantee you that they'll be pretty close to equal in skill, all else being the same. The guy who trains longer will have a slight edge, but not by as much as some of you seem to think.