View Full Version : Choy Lay Fut info?

07-17-2000, 12:12 PM
I joined this forum hoping for more experienced voices in Chinese martial arts. I am currently a practitioner of the Takamatsu-den ninpo systems under the Bujinkan organization; this is the first time in 10 years that I can remember studying only a single martial art.
I recently came across some photos of a master (Chen yong-fa) performing Choy Lay Fut fan techniques in Inside Kung-fu; his body alignment, stance, hand positions, etc., seemed very similar to Bujinkan taijutsu. This is exciting to me, because I have never encountered a martial art that moved like ninjutsu.
Can anyone confirm whether the illustrations of that article are standard positions for Choy lay fut?

Jason C. Diederich
Pax Nobiscum

07-17-2000, 05:45 PM
Jason... I used to study ninpo. I now study CMA (shaolin & taiji). I've seen lots of simularities, not identical movements mind you, but definate motions/principals/theories that seem realy closely related. This could be from a number of different places like Takamatsu Sensei's time in China when he was younger, the historical/fable references to people like Cho Gyokko & Cho Busho that were "masters of the Shorin (Shaolin) tradition". Who knows but the simularities are there & from my experience in ninpo & CMA, leaning more towards Northern styles rather Southern.

Interesting note... my first night of TaiJi applications, I found myself doing Onikudaki from the Taiji posture "Rollback". Very cool since that was one of my favorite taijutsu techniques.

07-18-2000, 04:09 AM
Regarding Chan Yong-Fa and Choy Lee Fut, he is considered the "keeper" of the style, as he is a direct descendant of the founder, Chan Heung, and currently holds all the family documents.

Yes, Sifu Chan Yong-Fa's positions are to be found in Choy Lee Fut (CLF). But not all CLF schools are the same. Some schools of different lineages stay more within the strictly "square" type of stances/body posture; others work a bit in-between. My CLF school is not connected with Sifu Chan's, but in the higher levels, many of our stances, postures, movements, etc., will often relax and open up a bit similar to what is pictured. IMO, no one way is the best way, because all CLF is of the same family.

07-18-2000, 07:44 AM
Thank You!
I am aware of Tat Mau Wong, Lai Hung, and Doc-fai Wong sifu; are any of these affiliated with Chan sifu?

Jason C. Diederich
Pax Nobiscum

07-18-2000, 09:18 PM
To Yamato:

Aside from being choy lay fut practioners they have no direct link to Chan Yong Fa. Tat Mau Wong & Doc Fai Wong are from the Hung Sing branch of the Choy Lay Fut system. Wong Tat Mau learned his choy lay fut from my Sifu, Lee Koon Hung. Doc Fai Wong learned from Lau Bun and Wong Gong. Lai Hung is much older than the other two and learned both Buk Sing Choy Lay Fut and Buk Sil Lum (Northern Shaolin). I am not sure who his sifu's were.

Hope this helps.

07-18-2000, 09:30 PM
In his very early years, Lai Hung was taught "hung tou fo wei" by Lee Nam.

He was later taught Bak Shaolin by Lung Tze, a senior student of Ku Yu Cheung. He was also taught Tai Chi, Yang style and varying forms of qigung.

He was taught Bak Sing CLF for 8 years by Li Chou, a student of Tam Sam's. Lai Hung was also briefly taught by an old CLF master by the name Chen Chen.

One other teacher was Yeh Yu ting. He was a Hsing-I master.

Hope that sheds some light.

07-19-2000, 03:38 AM
Chen Yong Fa is not the only person considered a keeper of the Choy Lee Fut system in Hong Kong and in Clf lineage’s coming out of Hong Kong, Chen Kin Man is considered by many to Jun Mun (keeper of the style). I believe she is a Great Great grand daughter of Chan Heung. A lot of the Clf People in Hong Kong and Singapore until recently have never heard of Chen Yong Fa.

07-19-2000, 03:44 AM
Sorry I ment to say it was Chan Kit Fong not Chen Kin Man

10-20-2001, 04:48 AM
Chan Kit Fong is the aunt of master Chen Yong Fa, and is the mother of master Ng Fu Hang.

10-20-2001, 03:03 PM
This is old news, very old news.

Fear not the man who has learned one thousand kicks, fear the man who has practiced one kick a thousand times.

10-23-2001, 03:24 PM
CLF like any other complete system of MA has many levels. The beginners usually start with the external (large, low and square stance for instance) and work towards the internal. At a higher level they attempt to integrate the two so there is softness within the hard and hardness within the soft. It is neither external nor internal, it is just a natural way to move.

Chen Yong-Fas way of doing his stance is probably a result of his experience, his physique and his personality. It would not be surprising to see some of his students do their stance in a different way. It is a sign of a teacher adopting the techniques to his students’ body type and level of understanding.

In the end they will have a natural stance that suit them the best. At a higher level of accomplishment, a person’s kung fu transcends stylistic variation. IMO it is a bit misleading to say that we do it differently because we are from a different branch of the same system, or that we look the same therefore we must come from the same lineage. Either point of view missed the idea that MA is ultimately about moving naturally and effectively.


10-24-2001, 04:31 AM
joseph two thumbs up, dude. Sounds, logical and natural :cool: