Less and Less (my confession)

[MaFuYee]

hi,

i like martial arts. - it's a great hobby for me. - over the years i've hopped from system to system, school to school, and have been very fortunate to be able to experience a very rich and diverse smorgasborg of styles and arts, but i've never felt like i was ever really progressing in my ability to fight, like i wanted to. (think 'shaw bros.')

and over the years i've tried to keep pieces from different arts that i liked, and incorporate it into my training, and i think in the short run, i did benefit from it.

e.g. i liked the 'hubud' drills from the pillipino arts, as well as the 12 strikes and 12 blocks of the doce pares system. - i liked the plum flower strikes from wu mei, as well as their bamboo blocking, and unique footwork. i really like the san jin sao exercises from hung ga... etc. etc.

but, who in the world has the time to practice everything??

for the last 5+ years i've been learning yang style tai chi, and have learned the 64 posture form, tai chi pole, gim, broadsword, hsing-i 5 elements and linking form, 1 tung bei (white ape) form, 10 tan tui sets (very short) hsing-i's 3 power sword form (san jin), red river (northern longfist), health fist, tai chi 2 man fast set... etc. etc...

my mind was oversaturated with kung fu...
(and i still sucked.)

i've never been able to consistently practice any one thing for long enough to really get very good at it... i would constantly have to cycle through the material or i would start to forget stuff.

with all the forms and whatnot, i'd have very little time to actually practice the techniques, and my fighting ability suffered for it.

i made this realisation perhaps two years ago, or at least it got to a point where the realisation crystalized; and i started to cut things out of my training...

i cut and cut, and it seemed to be an improvement, ... and i kept on cutting, and cutting... to where i am now, where i've cut to such an extreme, that i only really work on 5 things.

1. raise arms
2. single whip
3. brush knee
4. lift hands
5. golden rooster

this seems to really have improved my fighting skills a lot. (keep in mind, i don't have hours and hours every day to practice.) - these are the only 5 things that i use when i spar. and now i feel i've almost come to a point where i feel that maybe in a few more months, i can add another technique to work on. (although, now my sparring is better than it's ever been, i don't really know if i should even bother to add more, for fear that my progress might suffer.)

other than these 5 techniques, i generally will do some "standing post", and the tai chi form, just cause it feels good, and i've started to work on my horse stance again. (i always disliked it in the past, but now i realise that it's good for me, so i'm getting into doing a little bit of that. - and in a way, it does feel good. (in a masochistic kind of way.))

i used to want to know everything kung fu. - i though it would be great if i could learn all these different styles and everything... and i would watch every m.a. instructional tape i could get my hands on, and read every m.a. book in barnes and nobles...

now i feel like none of it is all that interesting to me anymore... i no longer feel the urge to learn pokeyomama silat and buy that tape on duck style kung fu, because i've found that, of everything i've seen so far, for me, tai chi seems to be the most practical, and if you know how to skin a cat one way, and it works good for you... wonderful. - although i don't know what i'd do with a skinned cat.

i'm still not great or anything, but i think i've reached a new level of contentment with my training, and my improvement in fighting skill... and even if i never become great... oh well... it's just a hobby. - besides, that's why i got my 'gat'. :D

anyhoo... this is just an idea for some of you out there, who like me, have already learned more than enough forms for this lifetime (usually meaning, 'if you know more than one form') but have not yet experienced the positive growth of fighting skills like you wanted to, and that originally prompted you to learn martial arts; maybe the old adage is true, that "less is more", and maybe you too can benefit from focusing on just a few things to get good at.

peace outside,
Ma.

[dezhen2001]

im glad your training is going well :)

for me i used to train in many different skills: shotokan karate, boxing, muay thai, aikido and shorinji kempo... pretty much all at the same time. Then i met my sifu and saw him do wing chun and qigong.

now i realise that wing chun has more than enough for me to work on for a long time, and the qigong is also good for my health. its just hard to 'un-learn' all the reactions i had before from my previous training, but im getting there :)

good luck,
dawood

[Former castleva]

If you chase two rabbits at once...
All I can do is loosely quote Dezhen-"good thing your training..."

BTW,I hope no-one turns this into a style/kung-fu/forms etc. rant/prank post.


;)

[SevenStar]

Good post.

[Daredevil]

Yeah, good post. I think too many wanna-be martial artists end up with similar problems which you describe in your post. Glad you have managed to take your training to another level, given your time constraints.

There aren't many secrets to kungfu. "Practise, practise, practise", that's the more legendary one, but I would value "master your basics" as an equally important one.

Another thing to remember, which I would dearly hope the more "hippie-nerdy" of CMA practisioners would get, is that without power those techniques aren't worth ****. The path to power is usually in the basics, though.

As my teacher says, "no technique will suffice against superior kungfu."

[Radhnoti]

MaFuYee, I have to ask this question...
Do you think you could've gotten to where you are as a martial artist WITHOUT learning most the stuff you are now discarding?
I don't mean that in a harsh way...it sort of reminds me of Bruce Lee. He felt improvement would mostly be found by "cutting away" things that didn't work, but would he have gotten as far without his foundation and research into various traditional arts?
To restate, do you think your knowledge base should FIRST be broad or would simple have sufficed from the start?
Thanks for posting this, it is an issue that impacts my training greatly.

[KC Elbows]

I think a good teacher needs a broad base of knowledge, and a narrow base of favored techniques.

All a good fighter needs is the narrow base of techniques.

[MaFuYee]

radhnoti,

re: "Do you think you could've gotten to where you are as a martial artist WITHOUT learning most the stuff you are now discarding?"

if you mean, 'skill wise', then YES.

- i show my friends (with no formal ma training) certain techniques that they can use if they ever get into an altercation, and they pick up on it right away, and are able to use it in litterally, just minutes. (actually, the technique i show them is 'raise arms' - the opening move of tai chi.)


re: "do you think your knowledge base should FIRST be broad or would simple have sufficed from the start?"

suffice for what?

a broad knowledge base does nothing for skill. - skill comes from practice.

the question is, 'what to practice'?

[apoweyn]

mafuyee,

just out of curiosity (good thread, by the way), where did you study doce pares?


stuart b.

[Ray Pina]

My teacher is cool enough to tell us not to discard what we have learned in the past but ,to be honest, it is not an issue.

Going from Isshin-Ryu to Hung Gar and Wing Chun I did not feel that I gained ability (speed,power, ect) but understanding instead. Perhaps sticking, I guess I would have to call that an ability, and an important one at that.

Then to S. Mantis. Again, not like I felt a jump in hitting power or speed, just applying more principles and theory and then actually putting them to the test.

Not until training with my teacher now have I felt an increase in hitting power, and that is due to changing the source of that power, what muscles and body group are involved.

So in the end, I don't feel like I'm carrying a bundle of stuff on my back. It's still just me, just my thinking and usage is changing, the source is changing.

As far as a number of techniques, what I'm learning from Hsing-I is that you don't need a lot. You just need a few "go to" moves that have power and strong intention. Tiger hands, cannon fist -- there's a lot in there already. Of course I want to leanr it all though.;)

The way my master teaches though helps from overburdening one's training. He does not teach form, just idea and usage.

When one knows how to use a hammer, it does not affect his ability to use a screwdriver, or a saw. Or tie his shoes or turn on a faucet, ect.

Martial arts are great.

[Radhnoti]

By "sufficed" I suppose I mean your own "personal satisfaction" with what you know and how well you feel it will serve you.
Also, from your post, it seemed you focus mostly on your martial art for self-defense. So, I would assume your personal satisfaction to relate to your fighting ability. Sorry if I've made any incorrect assumptions. :)

And thanks VERY much for answering. As I said, it relates pretty directly to my own training.

[MaFuYee]

apoweyn,

in NY. (is that what you meant?)
from cliff derry, and don edwards,
who learned from the cannette(sp?) bros. in NJ.

and coincidentally, my tai chi teacher also studied doce pares form the same school. - he, cliff, and don were all classmates.


evo fist,

my teacher doesn't want me to 'discard' anything either... - he would love it, if i practiced everything i ever learned.

only problem is, me.

i felt that having too much jumbled up in my head was holding me back.

my teacher loves teaching me new stuff.
i have to tell him, "please! no more!"

now, i've chosen 5 things that i can use that will cover my arse in nearly any situation, and i stick with them. - it's made my life infinitely easier.

[apoweyn]

mafuyee,


Originally posted by MaFuYee
apoweyn,

in NY. (is that what you meant?)
from cliff derry, and don edwards,
who learned from the cannette(sp?) bros. in NJ.

and coincidentally, my tai chi teacher also studied doce pares form the same school. - he, cliff, and don were all classmates.


yep. that's what i meant. i was going to guess NJ, actually. arnulfo 'dong' cuesta. but that was just a guess.

canete (with the little squiggly thing over the 'n').

my teachers (the patalinghug family) are related to the canetes. at least, i think they are. my teacher always called ciriaco canete 'uncle.' but it's hard to tell whether that's a literal fact or no. (getting straight answers out of my teachers on things like that was sometimes a real chore.)

i read an article years ago in black belt discussing the combination of eskrima and taiji. the author seemed to think it was a really good mix.


stuart b.

[MaFuYee]

apoweyn,

oh crud. - you're right. - it was cuesta, not canete. - i got it mixed up. - i did take a seminar in that school with some canete or other. (my memory ain't what it used to be.) - that was all years ago... and they never seemed to stress lineage much, and i never really thought too much about lineage either. - i always felt it was the knowledge that mattered.

as far as an escrima tai chi combo style, i don't think it makes a whole lot of sense.

each is good on it's own, but i don't think it would mix well. - kinda like 2 foods that taste good alone, but not eaten together.

when i see people that feel the need to mix styles, i ususally think it's because they don't understand either system well enough. - i think if they would delve more fully into one system they would want for nothing.

- i think for stick and knife fighting escrima is heads above tai chi, but when going to empty hands (which i was most interested in) it's not as developed as tai chi. - i'm sorry, but guntings, while very effective with a knife, become only minor annoyances when using empty hands. - (just my opinion.)

- boy, is this thread off topic now!

* btw, i think that by 'uncle', your teacher most likely meant that in a non-blood relation kind of way. (a cultural thing.) - but, that's just my guess.

peace outside.