Bowling for Columbine?

[ZIM]

Has anyone seen this movie? (http://www.bowlingforcolumbine.com/home.php)

I just saw it recently. [dam good!] I'd be curious for reactions to it, or maybe to clips from the website.

One of the points he's making is that the US seems to have a more pervasive fear culture...this got me to thinking how this might affect the training you do? Art vs. self-defense and all...y'see, in one part he's saying that Canadians have [per capita] the same amount of guns we do, here in the US, but they also have like 68 gun murders a year versus around 11,000 in the US. He's saying it's NOT so much about guns, but about attitudes towards each other.

BTW: I'm NOT trying to get into a gun debate here! Let's keep this [as long as we can] on the movie and the topic's relation to martial arts: FEAR and the pervasiveness of FEAR, or lack thereof.

K? ;) After all, they've got their own forum for THAT. :D

[eulerfan]

My sister and I were just talking about this. Neither of us have seen it but we've both heard it will change your life. I do love Moore and, well, documentaries in general.

I know where it's playing here and intend to go see it soon. I'll let you know when I do.

[ZIM]

Hey eulerfan!
I don't know about it changing lives and stuff, but it is a good movie. You won't regret seeing it [unlike seeing, say, punch drunk love :rolleyes: ].

from the site:
Bowling for Columbine" is an alternately humourous and horrifying film about the United States. It is a film about the state of the Union, about the violent soul of America. Why do 11,000 people die in America each year at the hands of gun violence? The talking heads yelling from every TV camera blame everything from Satan to video games. But are we that much different from many other countries? What sets us apart? How have we become both the master and victim of such enormous amounts of violence? This is not a film about gun control. It is a film about the fearful heart and soul of the United States, and the 280 million Americans lucky enough to have the right to a constitutionally protected Uzi.

When I saw it, it kind of related to a lot of reasons why ppl do MAs- they're told that killers are everywhere, violence is out of control with mentally ill ppl all over the place, not to mention gangs and druggies, all out to attack you. So they take martial arts, or develop new ones...it's a kind of mentality based on fear [tho they might say readiness] is all.

OTOH you've got ppl who are doing MAs for more cultural or aesthetic reasons. They're still interested in making it 'work', but it's not the end-all, be-all for it. Now, to me thats a curious thing, and I'm wondering if its a more American-than-not POV?

And, also, I'm wondering what ppl's perceptions of violent crime are? How prevalent, in your mind, is it? Did that perception get you into MAs?

I, for one, never have lived in really great/safe neighborhoods. There's a number of my past friends who are dead, usu. from overdoses, but some have been killed. Sure, I've seen my share of crime. But, you know, I never really had the urge or need to buy a gun, and its only recent that I got into MAs in any serious way.

I guess for me, I just never felt un-safe, cause I knew about streets and how they work, kept my eyes open, etc. So I had a kind of familiarity and confidence about it. I knew my brains were my best defense [and still are LOL]. So i can't say that fear was my prime motivator to get into this, maybe lower on the list. But I don't watch a lot of TV, either, so that might be a factor.

Anyone else?

[eulerfan]

I was dating this one guy for about a month when he punched me a few times and threatened to kill me.

It didn't make me think the world was full of nut jobs but it did make me realize that I was wrong about being able to identify who fell into the nut job category.

Up until that point I thought I was able to avoid situations where I might get hurt.

It's ineffective because my last boyfriend was an MAist who could have taken me in a second.

Other than that, my perception is that most crimes aren't violent. I've known quite a few people who have had crimes commited against them. Generally, a gun is pointed, a request is made, the request is granted, done and done.

The only person I know who got hurt had somebody throw a rock through his car window. It hit his head. He drove to the hospital. It's something the kids were doing in New Orleans to carjack people. You're supposed to stop the car when the rock hits it.

I know another guy, my best friend to be exact, who had two guy walk in his house to rob him. His roommate attacked the guy with the gun. One guy got away and they beat the other guy bloody before calling the cops. But, the other guy got away and they had done such a job on his friend that they broke their lease and found another place ASAP.

Those are the only violent crime stories I know. It's about 4% of the crime stories I know. Trust me, New Orleans is a crazy place.

[ZIM]

At one point in the movie, MM is talking with canadians in Toronto (which is multi-ethnic, maybe the size of chicago). They're telling him they don't even lock their doors.

So he can't believe it. He goes around opening doors at random. Nobody gets ****ed. It really had me thinking, "what the hecks wrong with us?"

Sorry for the spoiler, BTW. :( How about some canadians comment?

e: real sorry for your experiences with the guy, BTW. :mad: That sooo infuriating when I hear about that kind of stuff...But I get your point, re: identifying the nutjobs....that's why I'm doing profiling studies.:)

[eulerfan]

Oh, there was also this one time at a bar when I did something, I can't remember what, that really pi$$ed some guy off. He said, "I should kick your @ss."

I said, calm as a cucumber, "Okay, you'll probably win, too. Not a whole lot I can do about it. But, I think I could remove your ear before I lost consciousness and I'm going to go ahead and make that my goal."

That was a really stupid response fueled by pure fear. It worked, he called me a few names and crept away but it's still kind of freaky to me that I said that. I think that if I had felt a bit more secure in my ability to defend myself, I wouldn't have taken such a huge risk to avoid an attack.


I mean, that was a REALLY bold statement.

[eulerfan]

Originally posted by ZIM
e: real sorry for your experiences with the guy, BTW. :mad: That sooo infuriating when I hear about that kind of stuff...But I get your point, re: identifying the nutjobs....that's why I'm doing profiling studies.:)

Thanks.

[ZIM]

Its always in a bar, isn't it? LOL!

Thing is, you fight in a bar, and everybody else just keeps on drinking....they'll step over your body to get to the bar.

Fear works, sometimes in your favor, like it makes you bold, cuz you've got nothing to lose. Glad as heck nothing happened after! Curious tho: did you stay? keep drinking? Instant sobriety?

Run-ins for me have been almost solidly racially motivated. Being the white guy in a black neighborhood and such. I know that can breed some hatred [and some of my friends do hate blacks] but I don't. Bad apples are just bad apples, no matter what race. Still I've done some stupid things too- that's just how you learn, I guess.

Maybe I'm wondering more about paranoia? Better word maybe? You don't strike me as a paranoid kind of person, not stupidly trusting/naive, either. But certainly there are persons who get into MAs who are either extreme. As it goes, there's even jokes about what kind of arts they do. Have your experiences influenced the way you train, or the arts you've taken up?

hey, your sig. is that from the sean penn flick? where he's talking with billy bob thornton? cant remember the name...[& never been to N.O. [or wanted to], but I hear Corpus Christi is nice and will prob'ly go there some time.]

[eulerfan]

The whole thing happened during the 2 a.m. bum rush so there was no opportunity to stick around.

I started training because of these things so I don't know if it has affected my training or not.

I think a big reason for my training is preventing paranoia. I want to be able to be nice and open to strangers. You can't do that if you're afraid they'll jump you.

This sig is from Glengarry Glen Ross by David Mamet. It's not spoken that way in the movie but I highly recommend it.

[Chang Style Novice]

I've heard mixed things about it, even from my activist radical friends.

On the other hand, I still heart TV Nation bigtime, so I'll probably see it at some point.

[Silumkid]

eulerfan,

I don't care about your sig...Meatwad is what it's all about!

Meatwad making money, see?
Meatwad get the honeys, see?

Woo woo!

[eulerfan]

Thanks. CSN got it for me. He found Shake, Carl and Frylock, too. It was a toss up between meatwad and shake. Of course meatwad would win. Who doesn't wish they could assume the shape of a hot dog or an igloo?

[eulerfan]

Okay, I finally saw it last night. WOW! Many, many thoughts but I'll just post a few.

a.) Gained some respect for Marilyn Manson and now have no respect for Heston. What a tool that guy is! It was so obvious from that interview that the guy was just a puppet with no real independent thought. And **** Clarke is evil, which we already knew.

b) That "History of America" cartoon had a very South Park feel to it. And Matt Stone was interviewed. Coincidence? Kudos for the use of "Take the Skindheads Bowling," great song.

c) FEAR CULTURE: I do think the press would have us believe the world is far more dangerous than it actually is. It was validating to see the news pilloried for this. I couldn't agree more. One fear tactic Moore didn't mention that I see making us act like psychos is the fear of sickness. I've said this many times in my life, I think the U.S. is getting OCD as a nation. We're so afraid of germs.

I mean, there are disposeable bathroom hand towels for God's sake! If we don't use our immune systems, they will do us no good, people!!!!

And the scares: ebola, skin eating disease, meningitus, Disney cruise, and now small pox.

I wish he'd touched on the disease scares.

[ZIM]

Great movie, no? That's what got me thinking about the relation to martail arts- the emphasis on 'reality training' that has the potential to alter the 'original' content of a traditional art, the kind of folks we might see take MAs in the USA versus another country, or what the reasons for taking an MA in the USA vs. the goals of a foriegn national, etc. etc.

I mean, did you notice the aikido/judo dojo in the shot that took place in front of the elementary school? Thats what got me thinking.

as for your points:
A] yep, agreed.
B] the cartoon was stone's.
C] NOT SMALLPOX!!! Don't bring it up again!!! :D Maybe thats another movie....you could bring it up on the bowling for columbine forum and see what comes up, I guess. :D

Thanks, eulerfan!

[yutyeesam]

I just saw this movie. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that those who see this movie are the ones who are basically thinking along similar lines, so what he does is validate the suspicions of the people who are on the same page as he is.

But, perhaps because it is a national release maybe there will be a few of those who are on the other end of the spectrum to see it and make them think a little bit...but probably not much.

Once this movie comes out on video/DVD, I think it'll be an excellent resource for teachers everywhere, including martial arts teachers.

I like the idea of a movie based on the fear of germs. I'd like to also see a documentary on the culture of fear and how it relates to the American martial arts world.

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[ZIM]

I like the idea of a movie based on the fear of germs

Wasn't that already done? the Chris Rock cartoon, Osmosis Jones?


I'd like to also see a documentary on the culture of fear and how it relates to the American martial arts world.

So would I, but I'm thinking it'd be PBS late-night thing....;)