is jon funk really good?

[7*mantiskid]

hi guys, just wondering if jon funk is actually as good as he says he is. i've noticed him in a lot of magazines and on the internet. sounds like he thinks he is special with all the 8th line generation stuff and learning in hong kong. so give me your opinions, thnx

[Stacey]

I don't think his martial arts ability is as good as his ability to market himself.

[ninjaboy]

you are both behaving in a manner that makes you look petty.

now go sit in a corner and think about what you've done.

ninjaboy

[Skarbromantis]

I agree with ninaboy, dont feed the trolls.

Skard1

[RAYNYSC]

Why is it when ever some one ask a legit question about jon funk
it's always met with remarks like it makes you look petty or your a troll for asking such a question....
Hey mk why don't you e-mail mr. funk & ask him because you aren't going to get any answers here as you can see any how just for the record I agree with stacey....


Peace :D

[cha kuen]

He's...ok.

*Mantis Books* (http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=taichimaster06&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=25)

[grifter721]

Instead of focusing on anyone why dont you guys ask yourselves what is good and what is not? What qualifications do you need your teacer to have??????, and are you good enough to judge?

[puma]

i believe he has the qualifications that would consider him to be good....why do people persist to pick on mr. funk????
those that question his skills and lineage...should be asking
that question about themselves...are you good enough and
what are you doing for the mantis community other than trolling???:mad:

[7*mantiskid]

it was just a question and an opinion from others. i just heard stuff that he does things a little differently, not saying that it doesn't work or anything. i just don't know why it's only him out there who's giving seminars and posting articles in magazines. what makes jon funk so good and qualified that it seems only he can do?

[Frogman]

:confused:

[Stacey]

because he can't walk with any kind of posture. And his kung fu cousins and brothers have also said that he's not that good, but does a good job at promoting mantis.

Look not everyone is a natural. He gives what knowlege he has and hosts tournaments and serves the martial arts community at large. For this, I respect him.

I think I could (mod edit) though, but thats besides the point.

[HuangKaiVun]

I don't think anybody here ought to want to face Funk in combat.

That guy can clearly fight.

You can SEE IT from his pictures.

[Shen Zhou]

Originally posted by HuangKaiVun
I don't think anybody here ought to want to face Funk in combat.

That guy can clearly fight.

You can SEE IT from his pictures.

I dont think looking good in pictures means you can fight. (Or was that a joke i did not get?) I have met Funk Sifu and as to if he can fight or not i can not state but i can state that he has a very good amount of quality material on Praying Mantis kung fu. And If this means any thing his teacher was once all Hong Kong full Contact fighting Champ. Its kinda like if you see the son you see the father type if issue. (If you belive in such an idea). Again I am not saying that he can fight or am I commenting on his moral standing all I am saying is that he is a Sifu in the WHF clan and also a major figure in the Mantis community so some respect from people not on his level is due.


Respectfully
Shen Zhou

[HuangKaiVun]

Do you know what to look for when looking at Funk's pictures, Shen Zhou?

All I'll say is that I've trained Praying Mantis, and I can see a lot of combative stuff Funk does that my sifu taught me.

If one hasn't trained kung fu (let alone Praying Mantis), it's not possible for him to tell what a guy can do even when he's standing in front of him in person.

[ninjaboy]

testing

[ninjaboy]

administrator.....

is there a time limit on the reply board? twice in a row it logged me out instead of submitting my reply and then when i posted 'testing', it was okay....

wasup wit dat?

ninjaboy

[ninjaboy]

perhaps i'll do it a 3rd time, 1 sentence at a time so nothing gets lost.....

[ninjaboy]

i can confirm that sifu jon funk is both an excellent teacher and an excellent fighter. stand up, lye down...doesn't matter.

[ninjaboy]

he'll be the first one to tell you that mantis principles are universal and that it doesn't really matter whether you're standing or not. only gravity affects you differently.

[ninjaboy]

in my experience, martial arts teachers at large seem to have a comfort zone with either stand up fighting or grappling. sifu jon funk doesn't much care what distance it happens at. he's good everywhere.

[ninjaboy]

and, for those who choose to disrespect martial artists, regardless of who, by making value judgements based on hearsay and photograph assessments, with no first hand experience to claim, tell me you have at LEAST heard the one about 'respect your elders'. the man's over fifty.

[ninjaboy]

mantiskid

ask better questions.

you asked "just wondering if jon funk is actually as good as he says he is''

i've known him for almost ten years and have never heard him once say "i'm really good" or "i'm better than so and so".

and stacey...

if in fact his cousins and brothers are making negative comments on his ability to fight, i GUARANTEE it isn't to his face. you know how they USED to settle things, right? he he he. i certainly haven't heard about anybody stepping up to the plate, have you?

[Stacey]

who cares, I didn't state a fact, only my perception.

I couln't give two ****s if he's good or not.

[loki]

" In fact " Jon has been approached on one or two occasions in the past and backed off. Also, I've seen him spar a little and it seems like he uses karate more than Kung Fu let alone Mantis.

[7*mantiskid]

jon funk backed out of a fight? serious? so was he scared or just using his head, hahaha........
i've read some articles of his where he said that he was being followed by some guy once and just gave him a look that scared the guy away, hehehe......

i never knew he did karate. where did that come from?

[loki]

It's not that he knows a Karate style. It's Karate flavor...you know , tournament point fighting style.

[puma]

I see you guys still have nothing better to do with your time ...othher than pick on SIFU JON FUNK :mad:
Are any of you guys as good as him???
Just because you know kung fu...karate or what ever your
art may be doesn't mean you have to fight every so called
Billy Bad A#* that challenges you
If indeed Sifu Jon Funk was challenged and declined to
fight...that does not mean he was affraid to fight...he
proved he was the better person than his so-called
challenger..if indeed Sifu Jon Funk was challenged
and declined to fight...Iwould view the situation like
this....do you whup on a child because you can or
have to????

I leave you ladies and gentlemen as i came...in peace

[MantisifuFW]

As one of Sifu Funk's cousins in the Wong Hong Fun mantis line I wish to make a few observations:

1. That so many people spend their time discussing Sifu Funk, positively or negatively speaks of the tremendous impact he has had on Kung-Fu, our definition of it and how we practice it either in compliance with or in opposition to his vision of it. Few people have such a legacy.

2. Sifu Funk is secure in his opinions and methods. He and his Kung-Fu has been shaped by many influences, in my opinion, he was shaped most of all by his teacher, Master Cheng, (as it should be). Kung-Fu is an individual discipline, a freeing discipline and Sifu Funk is a clear example of this.

3. Let me assure you that none of Sifu Funk's brothers or cousins, as I know, criticise his fighting ability. But let me also assure you that there is much criticism and lively debate between us of our generation both in public and private forums, and yes, even "face to face", (When you are secure in what you do, you can do this), on the definition, scope practice and application of the art we love.

The pursuit of such questions about masters and their methods is not a negative thing in itself. I have heard Sifu Funk himself actively encourage such inquiry. However, the one asking the questions should be ready to hear the answers and not feel bad when those don't match preconceptions.

I wish you well,

Steve Cottrell

[mantis108]

Dear Sifu Cottrell,

That's most beautifully said. Hope all are well with you.

Best regards

Robert Hui (Mantis108)

[puma]

Hopefully...this negative nonsense about Sifu Jon Funk can be
put to rest...well said...Sifu Cottrell

[cha kuen]

This is getting interesting.

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[RAYNYSC]

I know for a "FACT" that some of Sifu Funk's brothers & cousins have criticized him. Not only is he aware of it but he know's who they are. So I find it kinda hard to believe you, sifu cottrell when you say that no one in the Wong Hung Fun lineage has criticized him.
Now you honestly might not know what the deal is but then again you just might be trying to down play the Fact that he has been criticized by his brothers & cousins from the Wong Hung Fun Mantis line.The bottom line, there is no way around it like I said before you can believe what you want....;)

PEACE:D

[MantisifuFW]

RAYNYSC

You said,
"I know for a "FACT" that some of Sifu Funk's brothers & cousins have criticized him. Not only is he aware of it but he know's who they are. So I find it kinda hard to believe you, sifu cottrell when you say that no one in the Wong Hung Fun lineage has criticized him."

I actually said in the previous post:
"Let me assure you that none of Sifu Funk's brothers or cousins, as I know, criticize his fighting ability. "

"But let me also assure you that there is much criticism and lively debate between us of our generation both in public and private forums, and yes, even "face to face", (When you are secure in what you do, you can do this), on the definition, scope practice and application of the art we love. "

Obviously I said there was criticism of Sifu Funk among those of our generation. You mischaracterized what I said for your response. Such disingenuous tactics do not speak well of you personally and detracts from your credibility.

Further, it detracts from your legitimate argument, that I in fact agree with, that Sifu Funk's approach to the art, (as all of our approaches do), deserves critical analysis and that it should happen in a public forum.

Then you said:
"Now you honestly might not know what the deal is but then again you just might be trying to down play the Fact that he has been criticized by his brothers & cousins from the Wong Hung Fun Mantis line.The bottom line, there is no way around it like I said before you can believe what you want."

Sad and a very weak statement for two reasons. One that you might accuse me of misrepresenting the truth ("play down the Fact") when I am and have been for years a critic of Sifu Funk, and secondly that I might wish to "get around" what you have said or negate it in any way. In fact I wish you could provide us on the list or me privately with those persons I could confer on this matter and learn more in this regard. Facts and truth are always welcome!

So far though, you have misquoted what I have said in order to allow yourself an answer, you misrepresented my intentions and insulted me. Therefore, I believe I understand the nature of your inquiry and know a lot more about you now, (and since we are on a public forum, so do many others). By the way what lineage are you, (I do not wish to embarass your sifu so please do not say)? I know many good sifu in NY and find such conduct uncharacteristic of their approach in discussion.

I hope this is not the whole of what you have to offer. I truly hope this was only a lapse on your part. My appologies for having to point such things out but you left me no choice. I look forward to productive dialogue.

Respectfully,
Steve Cottrell

[kfwisdom]

I saw him perform a two men set one time in Cali, and it was horrible. He did this slow motion thing.

[Stacey]

I would no more sit in on one of his classes then I would sit on a "stacey said" plug found behind a "stacey said" theatre.
(edited to remove content by BTL)

[seung ga faat]

Yes, he is.Now, can you please stop and go workout so,that you can be.

[loki]

I don't think anyone has questioned his fighting ability. After all, who has he fought ? I saw him spar very briefly and he scored numerous times on his partner ( student ). However, what he used was not Kung Fu...definitely, not mantis.

I think the criticism is all about legitimacy within the 7 Star Praying Mantis system. I believe Mr. Funk will be the first to admit that there are people out there that have questioned his and his teacher's legitimacy and the people who have are from the WHF side.

This is not something that anyone on this forum started. It started way before. However, there are people here that are curious and want to know. No one here should be criticised for asking questions or for stating their opinions pro or con.

Mr. Cottrell, no disrespect intended toward you but you must remember that Sifu Cheng's credentials were touched upon on the mailing list awhile back. Mr. Funk had to explain that his Sifu was unable to make the trip for his certificate because he had the flu ( which BTW , has to raise some eyebrows ). Perhaps the wording in your first post was a little confusing. Are you criticising, or are you defending Mr. Funk ?

It doesn't surprise me however, because you seem to be a very humble person who likes to state the good qualities in a person. You have nothing bad to say about anyone and always try to stay neutral. That is very admirable of you. Your moderation on the mailing list is a testament to this fact and you should be commended.

Personally, I don't have anything against Mr. Funk. He writes a decent article once in awhile. His play on mantis forms is not bad either. My only gripe with him is his attitude toward other mantis practitioners , especially those of the CCM sect , but I will not get into that here. He comes off as if he knows more than anyone else and that is a huge turnoff. That being said, I don't really care much one way or the other about the man.

This is a public forum and people can say whatever they want to. Why is it that the minute anyone says something negative people question what lineage they're from or who their Sifu is? Can't a person have an opinion without it reflecting on their Sifu or school ? I am well aware of martial virtue and everything it entails but a student can still have his or her own opinion and should be able to express it.

[RAYNYSC]

Ok so now that I've misquoted what you have said in order to allow myself an answer not to mention misrepresented your intentions & insulted you as you put it.


"Let me assure you that none of sifu funk's brothers or cousins,as I know,criticize his fighting ability."

First of all it doesn't matter if it's his fighting or teaching ability that is being criticized the "FACT" still remains that he has been criticized in the past & you by your own admission you've been a critic of sifu funk for some years. So now I ask you whats up with that? Why didn't you just come out & say that you were a critic right from the start insted of down playing the fact that you have criticized sifu funk before reguardless of reason....

It looks to me if there is any lapse it's on your part, anyhow since you believe that you understand the nature of my inquiry & know a lot more about me now....

Tell what I'm going to do if you really want to know more then e-mail me privately & I will be more then happy to provide you with the info that you wish to see heck I'll do you one better I'll send it to you from the source itself....

Oh by the way there's no need for any appologies when one is looking to find out the truth behide the facts that is of course if the facts & truth are welcome....;)


Peace:D

[BeiTangLang]

Originally posted by loki
<removed content>

This is a public forum and people can say whatever they want to. Why is it that the minute anyone says something negative people question what lineage they're from or who their Sifu is? Can't a person have an opinion without it reflecting on their Sifu or school ? I am well aware of martial virtue and everything it entails but a student can still have his or her own opinion and should be able to express it.

Public forums are a blessing & a curse.
People may say whatever they want to without being held accountable for their words hiding behind an internet name. Critisizing from behind a fake name is cowardice. I often wish I had the power to remove those with fake I.D's or no location specified. Statements made here should reflect upon yourself in "real-life"...thus reflected upon your school, your teacher, your family. If you cannot make a statement that they too can stand by or at least respect as an in-earnest opinion, then why even make the statement?
Anyway,....back to the regularly scheduled program.
Best Wishes,
~BTL

[7*mantiskid]

i'll have to agree with RAYNSYC, i'm not a big fan of jon funk either, but i don't know if he is as good as some of you have mentioned him to be. i've heard about the sparring in which doesn;t resemble mantis at all. so how would that make him great at mantis if he can't even use the techniques of the mantis in sparring?

the most annoying thing i find about jon funk is the that he always says the same things. he thinks that being a student of al cheng and relating to whf clan makes him great. and the fact that he's an 8th line descendant of the founder. i'm sure many of us can say that too, but do we?

in the pictures you see of him doing a technique, he always makes a stupid face as if were some real tough guy. i don't like that at all

[MantisifuFW]

Loki,

I actually came on because I hoped the discussion could be saved from simply being an attack on the person, his personality or how he pose for pictures. Something that only rallies people to his defense and does not touch on those things which should be discussed.

Of far more importance is the evaluation of actual technique and beyond that, the essential elements of how one defines the art. On another forum recently, Sifu Funk and I debated directly and quite forcibly concerning our positions on the "evolution" of Gongfu. At other times he and I have gotten quite intense in discussion of technique and what is and is not Tanglang.

Certainly one can say whatever they want. The question of what lineage one is, regardless of the instance being in a positive or negative light is always pertinant to the discussion. My question was directed as it was to determine if such strong derision was coming from withing the WHF line, (and my surprise that I had not heard of it sooner), or from without. If RAY had been CCM line then I would understand also since there is a long history there too and understandable. However, in any case, it does not negate the legitimate critical debate which must take place on technical issues of the art we practice. I do not know RAY nor if he would answer my post in any respect. I am going to email him privately.

If I did not wish to be questioned, I would not post. Most certainly I do not have to subject myself to being treated badily as the potential exists on this list but the questions are actually that important.

Thank you for your kind comments concerning my decorum on most issues. I am afraid that my neutrality may be disappearing in the future. Hence my involvement in this list.

Thank you for your reasoned response.
Steve Cottrell

[MantisifuFW]

RAYNYSC,

You said,
"So now I ask you whats up with that? Why didn't you just come out & say that you were a critic right from the start insted of down playing the fact that you have criticized sifu funk before reguardless of reason...."

I will post again, (the third time) what I said in my first post:
"But let me also assure you that there is much criticism and lively debate between us of our generation both in public and private forums, and yes, even "face to face", (When you are secure in what you do, you can do this), on the definition, scope practice and application of the art we love. "

I believe it was clear from the first that I said I have been a critic. There was no "playing down", please stop mischaracterizing what I say.

Nonetheless, I look forward to your sending me the information. I believe that the nature of your discussion only speaks to the intensity of feelings you hold and not anything else.

By the way, when you send the information, could you send me the line of mantis you practice?

Steve Cottrell

[Shen Zhou]

In the name of ethics and respect those of you who doubt Funk Sifu's skill should go through the ranks. Starting with his students. First any questions about a Sifu's skill can and will be answered by the students he has teaching. Next if you doubt his fighting ability then first you ask one of his students for a "friendly" match. I will leave the rest alone as for myself I am not on the level to challange anyone of a generation above me. So my suggestion is to contact some of Funk Sifu's students he has teaching under him and relay your questions. Here is just a few I took the liberty to look up for you.

Chinese Martial Arts Association
PO Box 116
Washington, IL 61571
phone: 309-253-3780
Sifu Dwight Edwards
wangdaoren@aol.com
www.realkungfu.com

Kung Fu Academy
138 Morton Ave. Folsom, PA
(across Staples & Blockbuster)
Head Instructor: Fred Grant III
Contact #: 610-522-8446
drkhellmet@aol.com

Respectfully
Shen Zhou

[word]

SHENZHOU,
SORRY BUT YOUR POST ABOUT A FRIENDLY MATCH IS REALLY STUPID. PEOPLE CAN HAVE THEIR OPINIONS ON A SIFU AND NOT HAVE TO DO SOME FRIENDLY MATCH. A GENERATION ABOVE YOU? YOU THINK THIS IS 18TH CENTURY CHINA OR SOMETHING? THAT'S RIDICULOUS.

JON FUNK CAN FIGHT BUT HE DOES NOT KNOW WHAT MAKES MANTIS - MANTIS. ALSO HE IS NOT CONNECTED AND DOES NOT MOVE AS ONE UNIT. HE CANNOT DERIVE POWER FROM THE GROUND AND SPINAL CORD, HENCE, NO FAHJING ' GING'.

BUT I CAN';T COMPLAIN, BECAUSE EVERYONE THESE DAYS ARE LIKE THAT.

[Skarbromantis]

SORRY BUT YOUR POST ABOUT A FRIENDLY MATCH IS REALLY STUPID.

Do you know what is really stupid, typing in capps!!

Skard1

[Shen Zhou]

That was a stupid post of mine. Stupid of me to think that people have respect within the Martial Arts Community. Stupid of me to think that respecting elders to me for one is correct, but for another, elders in a system that i claim to up hold.

But i should have known that there are people that do not teach respect anymore hence that rapid decline of the american school system. (Yes I am a Teacher in the inner city) But i will take that my post was stupid as it was directed to the wrong person, system, culture, intellect, ect...

So just as Sifu Cottrell has stated i will do the same and fade out before i bring shame upon my Sifu. Which by the way is that last thing I would want to do out of respect for him, my Si Gung, Brothers, Sisters, and Myself .

Shen Zhou

[ninjaboy]

hey word,

out of curiosity, have you ever 'touched hands' with sifu funk? like sticky hands or pushhands or anything similar?

ninjaboy

[word]

I HAVE NOT BEEN TO CANADA BEFORE SO I HAVE NOT SEEN FUNK. I HAVE NOT TOUCHED HANDS WITH HALF OF THE SIFUS THAT I CRITIZE. THAT WOULD BURST THEIR BUBBLE AND I DON'T NEED TO RUIN THEIR DAY OR PROVE ANYTHING. ALSO I TWOULD START A FIGHT AND I DONT NEED THAT EITHER. I GIVE MY LITTLE OPINION THATS ALL . IM NOT GOOD. IF FUNK CAN BEAT ME , THAT DOESNT MEAN ANYTHING BECAUSE I'M A STUDENT NOT A SIFU. FUNK SHOULD BE A STUDENT TOO AND GO FIND SOMEONE GOOD TO TRAIN WITH INSTEAD OF CALLING HIMSELF A SIFU. IF HE WATNED TO TEACH KICKBOXING OR SELF DEFENSE HE CAN BE A SIFU IN THAT, BUT NOT A SIFU IN MANTIS. I CAN SEE WITH MY EYES IF A SIFU IS CONNECTED OR NOT.

[7*mantiskid]

i heard that al cheng sent jon funk to go learn in hong kong. just wondering, how much did he learn from the mantis master's in hong kong? i know from around that time, the chinese were still sort of against teaching non-chinese kung fu.

and with this friendly sparring thing, that is really dumb. i'd like to see jon funk get in a street fight with a mantis fighter from either china, hong kong or taiwan

[Stacey]

why? You can beat up any other peasant, so why Jon Funk?

[Brad]

I HAVE NOT BEEN TO CANADA BEFORE SO I HAVE NOT SEEN FUNK. I HAVE NOT TOUCHED HANDS WITH HALF OF THE SIFUS THAT I CRITIZE. THAT WOULD BURST THEIR BUBBLE AND I DON'T NEED TO RUIN THEIR DAY OR PROVE ANYTHING. ALSO I TWOULD START A FIGHT AND I DONT NEED THAT EITHER. I GIVE MY LITTLE OPINION THATS ALL . IM NOT GOOD. IF FUNK CAN BEAT ME , THAT DOESNT MEAN ANYTHING BECAUSE I'M A STUDENT NOT A SIFU. FUNK SHOULD BE A STUDENT TOO AND GO FIND SOMEONE GOOD TO TRAIN WITH INSTEAD OF CALLING HIMSELF A SIFU. IF HE WATNED TO TEACH KICKBOXING OR SELF DEFENSE HE CAN BE A SIFU IN THAT, BUT NOT A SIFU IN MANTIS. I CAN SEE WITH MY EYES IF A SIFU IS CONNECTED OR NOT.

Isn't it sad when children can find nothing better to do than insult people they've never met or seen on the internet? I blame it on poor parenting. Remember all you moms and dads out there, the internet is not a babysiter!

[BeiTangLang]

Alright guys,....public forum or not,...this thread has degraded & I will not allow further discussion. This forum has been an example of good exchanges for the last few months. It will be that way again;starting with the closing of this thread.