View Full Version : Body mechanics of Choy lee fut vs eclectic/jkd

WalkSoftly with BigStick
07-22-2000, 08:05 AM
Hello out there, I'm a new user with a question for those with some experience in Choy Lee Fut. I have trained in a number of styles (Thai boxing, Wing Chun, Eskrima/Arnis) with Wing Chun being the only chinese Traditional art in the mix. I am going to study CHoy Lee Fut with a teacher in my town when he returns from a holiday, but want to get started on the theory right away.
Can anyone give me some ideas on the differences or similaritys between CLF and the other arts mentioned. Specifically focussing on Footwork, Body Mechanics(power generation)

Any responses are much appreciated!

Stay well folks.

Gwa Sow Chop
07-22-2000, 10:10 AM
What is emphasized all depends on the teacher.
I was lucky enough to have a really terrific BoK Hsing clf teacher that really kicked ass in the thory and mechanics end of it. Have met others that didnt have a CLUE.
buyer beware. But the bottom line is that arts like clf have mechanics that are similar, and mechanics that are specific to their system. Hard to begin studying something unless you actually are doing it./...under a qualified sifu.
wait till he comes back, o.k. :-))))

07-23-2000, 10:01 PM
I would say Wing Chun and CLF do not have much in common. This being one reason as to the historical animosity between the two camps. I could not see Thai boxing having anything in commom as well.

You are headed in a totally different and distinctive direction from hence you came.

WalkSoftly with BigStick
07-24-2000, 09:00 AM
Thanks for your input folks. This really is a good forum for learning and advice from people you might never had had the opportunity to converse with.

I guess one primary question I have is that of power generation. All of my previous training and experience has led me to beleive that true power transference from a strike comes from proper follow through of body wieght. Physical symptoms of this would be- Rotation of the torso and in the case of a puch, the pivoting of the foot.

An example of this by Paul Vunak(JKD) is that of the batter in base ball or a shot putter. In that they rotate the torso, pivot rear foot and let the body follow naturally with the flow. All of which seems to be suported by modern sprorts theory. In contrast to a traditional style punch, which may have the torso rotation but no foot pivot and the rear foot firmly planted. I see a karate fighter in this scene.

The traditional answer I have always got is that the foot must be planted to give resistance to the power you have passed to your opponant. Like pushing a car, no firm planting no push.

I can see the theory of planting, but have no experince in it. However I have plenty in the first thery and it works for me too. But I am on a new learning path now so of course am open. After all, the territory is always different to the map, so one must get out there and DO IT to find the truth for themselves I suppose.

I hope I don't sound like an antagonistic JKD man trying to stir up the traditionalists, but I am seeking to sort this out sincerely.

ONe more point and plus of pivoting the feet with hand striking is mobility and speed.

I'm hoping to be well and truly proven wrong by others experience in these areas so I can flow with my new style.

Catch y'all later!

07-24-2000, 06:01 PM
Hey WalkSoftly with BigStick. No controversy anywhere in this post.

The pivoting with the lead or front foot as the upper torso twists is done done in Western boxing. A lot fo Chinese styles takes this pivoting to the extreme, if you will, where as the upper torso twists, it is generated in actuality by the hip. So, the hip guides the body.

The stability of a rooted stance pays dividends when practised and applied properly. This is where the traditionalist (in my mind) and the modernist differ in application & practise. For an apparent increase in speed and mobility, the modernist will stand more errect, forgoing maximal power generation (impact) for speed. The traditionalist (by my standards) will not do this. The root as practised in traditional stances is developed to a point where its presence remains a constant. This is a very hard thing to do. It takes much practise, due diligence, and Time.

A lot of modern practitioners and styles forsake the lower stances for a 'stand-up' game. It is merely a difference in opinion. This is what continues to ensure there is a martial art style for everyone.

Please, I only mentioned the tradionalist and modernist as points of reference, not to open another can of woims. And of course, these are my opinions.


07-24-2000, 11:23 PM

First off, welcome aboard.

I love technical discussions. IMHO, there is a misconception about the traditional or shall I said Classical CMA. In CMA three fundamentals are emphasized. Balance, mobility (footwork), and breathing are of equal importance. In Western sports' tradition (i.e Boxing) the first two outweights the third. In Classical CMA, due to their spiritual connections, breathing takes a much stronger role. We use abdominal breathing; hence, the creation of Dan Tin and the birth of internal power. Breathing, which is not cover by lots of "coaches" today, is also an important indication of the state of the body and mind are expirencing. The abdominal breathing amplifies the pivot of the foot, stablizes the twist of the hips, and accelerate the snap of shoulder in a long range striking mode. In short range (grappling range), CMA striking technique switch to using elbow forces instead of the shoulder forces. The mechanics seemingly the same but there are finer detail in using the elbow force. In this mode correct breathing coordinates the body much better and add a more subtle dimension to the techniques. Bruce Lee's work (JKD) hardly mention the elbow force. Until present time, most CMA practitioners deals with mainly physical aspect of their arts, the real treasure (the internal aspect),in my view, is still lacking. There is a need to develop a form of language to better explain the inner working between the mind and body. I believe the wisdom is in the breathing method.

Hope this would help in your search for the truth. You are welcome to email me, should you feel you need to discuss futher on this topic. My address sifu1@internoth.com .

Peace to all


P.S. nospam, your thoughts?

Contraria Sunt Complementa

07-25-2000, 12:40 AM
Indeed. I agree.

If a person omits one aspect, then they will never realise totality- at least as close as any of us might come to such realization. Although I do not necessarily agree that breathing is the key, I see it more as an element. The key, to my reasoning, is that of the consciousness. Nevertheless, one must experience many aspects to establish a foundational trust or faith, and the most proven method for this lies in each element.

Study of kung fu will take the simple to the extraordinary, then back to the simple again. And what's simpler than seeing the world, breathing of the world, and moving throughout the world?

WalkSoftly with BigStick
07-27-2000, 07:33 PM
What can I say, thanks for the great and thoughtful replies!.

I agree with both of you on both points. It could be said that BREATHING is the link and connection (Physical yet almost immaterial) between our bodies and the CONCIOUSNESS which expresses itself through the body.

Although I have not had any experience with subltle energy use in martial arts I have meditated for many years and had plenty of "subtle energy" experiences along the way. Enough to not need too much proving by any hard core Kung fu expert needing to demonstrate on me anyway!

Which reminds me of an interesting story...
An Eskrima asociate of mine whose passion was pressure point activation (and was painfully skillfull too!) was very amused to find his accuracy improved and his required effort decreased dramatically after being initiated into REIKI! What used to make you go ouch, turned into ZAP! and "OUCH!! LET GO OF ME!" It seemed his energy flow has well and truly been improved, what was intended to heal was quite easily used for the opposite intent.

Funny "thing" this energy huh?

Stay well