Att: MerryPrankster, Yenhoi, Apoweyn

[red5angel]

One of you guys sent me a link a while back that had some really good examples of Kali stick and sensitivity fighting on it. There was a page full of links of the different drills? Do you remember who you were and what page that was?

[Merryprankster]

Wasn't me. I don't know squat about weapons.

[red5angel]

I figured it wasnt but just wanted to make sure....

[apoweyn]

i think yenhoi and me both sent you pages covering that. i'll see if i can turn up one or two of them...

[apoweyn]

http://www.trainingblades.com/mainfo/martialarts/fma.htm

this is one of them. the other i deleted from my 'favorites' folder about two days ago. good timing, chief.

:)

[red5angel]

LOL, no problem Ap, if you can find it let me know otherwise thanks for the link!

[apoweyn]

well, it was the website of one of the JKD concepts guys. but i'll be d*mned if i can remember which one. if i do, i'll post it for you.

[red5angel]

Hey Ap, on thos esparring drill clips, would you say that peoples skills tend to get pretty bad when sparring, like knife or stick sparring? Other then one maybe two people it just looked like a bunch of people swinging sticks and trying to poke each other with knives....

[apoweyn]

well, that's pretty much what stick and knife sparring are like.

looking back on tapes of my old competitions (WEKAF stick sparring), it looks like a complete clusterf*ck. i've long wondered whether that's really what the real thing comes down to. and obviously, the real thing is going to be pretty **** chaotic. but the limitations of sparring are pretty pronounced in weapons sparring, i think. so i try not to think of it as a simulation as much as an attribute-building exercise.

if i swing on some guy and he defends by wailing me across the knuckles with his stick (a common FMA defense), the odds are decent that i'm dropping that stick and nursing that hand. but with the lacrosse gloves on, it's possible for me to roll with that and keep right on attacking. and that's fine, because we're both still learning to flow around defenses, flow in offense, etc. but it's not necessarily realistic.

while i haven't stick sparred in ages, the last time i did was with a JKD group here in maryland. more permissive than WEKAF rules. my opponent hit my hand a couple of times, came in with a flurry of stick movements (the net effect of which are anyone's guess), and plowed me in the gut with a front kick.

same with knife sparring. when i've sparred with the knife, after a 2-minute 'round' we'd both have been dead several times over. or at least bleeding too heavily from the arms to continue fighting the way we had been. so, again, not much use as a simulation i don't think. but it'll teach you a lot about using footwork, angles, and flow. and those things would likely be your best friends in reality.


stuart b.

[red5angel]

The experience with the JKD group you had is what I imagine it to be. If you have two sticks why not wade in swinging?
I did notice that the guy in the balck t-shirt preiodically got what look like some techniques off but everyone else just seem to be flailing. I guess my theory is if you hae the sticks, use them.
The knife fighting clips remind me of what you would see with people just screwing around in their back yard.

dont get me wrong though, I am not criticizing th clips so much as wondering if thats pretty much the way it goes.

[apoweyn]

yep. that's pretty much the way it goes.

think about this: the standard criticism for things like one-step sparring is that real fighters don't stand there with their arm extended, allowing you to counter at will. they continue to move. and they're fast. that's why sparring seldom resembles the forms or drills within a style. right?

now, increase that idea exponentially. the tip of a stick can move... i've heard in excess of 100mph. that may well be bollocks. but the point stands. the weapon is freaking fast. so if, to the untrained eye, boxing seems random and chaotic, extend that logic to the stick. there's technique going on in there. but it's hard to see with all the rattan flying.

i competed in double stick once. even i couldn't tell whether i was winning. never mind the judges. bottom line: me and another guy got beaten with two sticks apiece. one of us got a trophy for his trouble.



stuart b.

[red5angel]

Good points Ap, as always. I guess the untrained eye wont be able to pick them out as well, I may have to return to those clips when I get a little stick fighting experience eh? :)

[apoweyn]

well, sure. but trust me. it'll still mostly look like a clusterf*ck.

:)

[Stranger]

Ap,
Are you suggesting that a little technique goes a long way in a knifefight, and one can really overthink things?

[apoweyn]

stranger,

obviously, a knife fight is truly dire circumstances. just in the sparring i've done, it's obvious that i'd have taken a lot of serious damage. frankly, i don't want to imagine what form that damage would actually take, where real blades are concerned. never mind the idea that black jack brought up once; that the knife fighting we typically train is generally more like 'knife fencing' and less like an actual knife attack.

so it's bad. really bad. 'a little technique goes a long way.' yeah, i think that's accurate. in the sense that it's little things like good footwork applied to control the angles and the range that will make a profound difference.

does that make sense? (i know you've got some experience in this arena yourself.)


stuart b.

[Stranger]

Our approach to bladework is approached with a constructive learning strategy. There are no pre-set pattern drills that I have encountered yet.


On a sidenote, a couple FMA questions for you:

Have you ever worked with any Sayoc Kali practitioners? Comments?

Have you trained with a whip? Is the FMA approach to the whip as advanced as the blade and stick work?

Is dos manos frequently taught in class or is single and double stick favored?

What do you think of IMA bladework?