PTP and cardio

[FatherDog]

Lately I've been working almost exclusively on my cardio, doing quick sets of pushups and hindu squats followed by wind sprints on bikes and running. As a grappler, I've never found myself in a situation where I was in trouble due to not being strong enough, but frequently found myself gassing out and getting submitted because I couldn't recover my breath, so I've made cardio my focus. I ran cross-country in high school, and I still haven't gotten to the point where I feel like I'm really in a good cardiovascular shape again.

However, I kind of feel like I'm neglecting my development with not doing an significant amount of weight training. In the past, I've gotten some good results with a version of Tsalouine's Power to the People program of bench presses and deadlifts for strength gains. My question, for those of you more up on fitness techniques than myself, if I were to do a PTP style lifting routine each day after work, and follow it up immediately with a cardio routine of pushups, squats, and wind-sprints, would I be in danger of overtraining? Would I be compromising my gains in either area?

Any help is appreciated.

[rubthebuddha]

you're always in danger of over-training, but i've found that to be in relation to your diet and rest more than anything. you need time and material to recover from a workout. if you give yourself both in proper amounts, i think you'll be fine. if you don't, then you're just asking for it.

[IronFist]

My question, for those of you more up on fitness techniques than myself, if I were to do a PTP style lifting routine each day after work, and follow it up immediately with a cardio routine of pushups, squats, and wind-sprints, would I be in danger of overtraining? Would I be compromising my gains in either area?

I wouldn't mix PTP with pushups or anything. Why? Because if you follow up PTP with pushups it will be more volume than you're supposed to do with PTP and you may not be able to do PTP bench again the next day.

The only problem with PTP is if you do it exclusively you will end up with no endurance. I realized this after a few months of PTP and then I switched over to 10 sets of 5 with 30 seconds rest. I could barely make it through the 10 sets with a low starting weight, and the next day I was extremely tired. The high volume kind of shocked my body that was used to doing low volume of PTP.

That being said, PTP and cardio should be able to go together... because PTP is kind of about training the nervous system more so than the muscles directly (as far as I know), but I'm not entirely sure. I guess as long as your cardio doesn't leave you fatigued or anything it should be ok. If it were me I would do the PTP weight lifting first and then the cardio, and I'd probably only do cardio a few times a week.

Now, to make this even more long-winded, I would drop the cardio toward the end of the PTP cycle if you start to experience nervous system fatigue (for lack of better term). This happened to me during one PTP cycle when I went crazy with deadlifts. Instead of having muscle pain the next day, like you get following a bodybuilding workout, I had what I guess was nervous system fatigue. I felt kind of shaky, like a very mild adrenaline dump, but it lasted the whole day. I wasn't physically tired, but I felt worn out inside. It was weird as hell. Anyway, if you get that, drop the cardio until the end of the cycle.

IronFist

[Ford Prefect]

This is kind of line with IF. I've had good experience doing BWE's after PTP at the beginning of a PTP cycle. I worked in two week - 10 workout cycles, so I'd drop the extra stuff from workout 6-10. The best thing for grappling is to grapple. If that's your main concern, I'd grapple as much as possible and just do workouts when you have the free time.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by IronFist
The only problem with PTP is if you do it exclusively you will end up with no endurance.

That was my main concern with going back to lifting.


That being said, PTP and cardio should be able to go together... because PTP is kind of about training the nervous system more so than the muscles directly (as far as I know), but I'm not entirely sure. I guess as long as your cardio doesn't leave you fatigued or anything it should be ok. If it were me I would do the PTP weight lifting first and then the cardio, and I'd probably only do cardio a few times a week.

The pushups don't leave me sore, but the Hindu Squats tend to leave me with sore thighs... probably because I usually do one or two more sets of them than pushups. I always feel a bit winded/heart pounding after Hindu squats, so I assumed they were doing more good, cardio-wise, and tried to do more of them.[/B][/QUOTE]


Originally posted by Ford Prefect
This is kind of line with IF. I've had good experience doing BWE's after PTP at the beginning of a PTP cycle. I worked in two week - 10 workout cycles, so I'd drop the extra stuff from workout 6-10. The best thing for grappling is to grapple. If that's your main concern, I'd grapple as much as possible and just do workouts when you have the free time.


I'd like to do more grappling, believe me, but I'm only able to get up to the gym where I roll about twice a week. There's no one local that I can train with. I do have access to a well-equipped gym as a result of my job (I work at Princeton University) which is why I've been trying to make up for lack of rolling time with dedicated conditioning.

Could you give me an example of your two-week workout schedule when you were doing PTP and BWE?

[Ford Prefect]

"That was my main concern with going back to lifting."

I wouldn't sweat it. When I was really active in grappling and competing, I tried about every apporach under the sun for a while: BWE, Oly-lifts for time, sand bag, wind spint, gynastica natural, etc. The best shape I was in for grappling was when I was doing a combination of sand bag, BWE's and wind sprints. Of course, that's when I was grappling 4-6x (BJJ, Judo, Folkstyle) per week too. The funny thing was is that I took a break for about a little over a month to let an injury heal, and really got into my training regimen. When I came back, I was gassing like a newbie even though I was in "better shape". I didn't stop gassing until I started grappling more often.

From there, I experimented with different fitness training/ma training combo's because I was curious about my experience. Every single time I dropped grappling to 1-2x/week, I'd start gassing after a little bit regardless of workout regimen. I finally just decided to powerlift since I'd prefer to be able to power in and out of things when need be since everything else had such a small effect to my mat performance.

Edit: Re- the 2 - week schedule. I'll dig into my archives tonight. I keep all my workout routines in spreadsheet format and have them organized by date, but they're on my home machine... Yes, I'm anal about this stuff.

[Kempo Guy]

Pavel does not recommend doing PtP and cardio in the same workout. If you are planning on doing cardio and PtP together, I'd probably suggest you breaking the workouts up either during the same day (for instance morning and evening) or alternate days...

There are people doing PtP and KB (kettlebell) workouts in a staggered fashion, i.e. every other day, however I have never tried this so I can't vouch for the success of this type of program.

FWIW, what I have done in the past is to go on a 2 to 3 week PtP cycle, then switch to a KB/cardio/bodyweight training cycle for 2 - 4 weeks. I did this for a few months, but these days I only do bodyweight and KB type exercises...

KG

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Kempo Guy
Pavel does not recommend doing PtP and cardio in the same workout. I would do as IF suggests and add cardio at the end of your PtP cycle...


I thought I recommended the opposite of that?

I said if you do them on the same day do PTP first. Do cardio only a few times per week, and drop it towards the end of the cycle.

IronFist

[Kempo Guy]

IF,

Sorry dude, I was in a hurry earlier and misread what you had written. :o

I have edited my original post... please take a look.

KG

[FatherDog]

ttt for Ford's PtP/BWE schedule.