The one Kick

[bglenn]

In the third Section of Chum Kiu there is just one kick with the left leg. In our kung fu family there reasoning is that other kick meaning the right leg is found in the Bot Jom Do.The old grandmasters did this to show that the system was interconnected from start to finish.Just curious if there was any other explanations.Do the other branches of Ving tsun have just one kick?

[rubthebuddha]

the slant kick -- WT has just one of them. the reason i'm given, and no one seems that confident of this reason, is that it's more of a surprise kick with few applications. but, just because the right kick isn't in the form doesn't mean we shouldn't practice the hell out of it, though.

[yuanfen]

BGlenn- I dont know what line you are from.
Ip man himself tinkered with the forms here and there at different stages and occasions of his teaching.
In any case in Ho kam Ming's chum kiu there is a left front kick
when you turn first and a right front kick when you turn on the other side before the bong and wu. Then in the next section before double dai bong there is a front kick on the left leg for one side and a right kick for the other side.
For kicking drills Master ho had master Fong do front and side kicks as well. So Master Fong added the right side kick after the left front kick to his text or form. There are other kicks that our line has had but the foundations of all are in the tests or forms...
including the dummy.
The forms are primarily for foundation building and development
and can lead to many applications from the same foundation motion. For foundation building- when you do turn in section two for the first time to the left- it helps to first control the left front kick. When you develop control over the turn- in application you can
kick with either foot in a number of different ways. Of I am not clear enough let me know.

[S.Teebas]

In some seminar footage I have of TST, someone asked this same question. And he replied that he had asked the same question to Yip Man; Yip Man said that he should just practice on the left side, and see how he goes. TST said after practicing for a while as YM said; he then started kicking with his right and found it very easy to do the kick. And it felt much stronger than the left kick.

In my own interpretation I understand that this is probably because most people are right handed. And by training up the left you are working the weaker side, and will require more concentration and thought of the mechanics behind the kick. And when you use the right leg it will then become a very natural movement. I don’t think the idea is to never use your right leg until your in a street situation, but a lot of practice on your weaker side will give you a good overall improvement.

[tparkerkfo]

Just to add, It helps us get back to the center or point of origin after we go out. We do a kick and cover some ground to end up where we started. I suppose it is not in perfect harmony by being a bit off balance, but it serves its purpose. I am from the Leung Sheung line and if I understand the kick your speaking about right at the end before the last raising or cannon punches, we do it too.

Tom
________
MEDICAN CO-OP MODESTO CA (http://dispensaries.org)

[kj]

Hi again, B.

Some good responses thus far.

For me this is as much a scraping step as a kick. It manifests again in our "twenties" section of the dummy set (second section), and is practiced on both sides there.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[John Weiland]

Originally posted by kj
Hi again, B.

Some good responses thus far.

For me this is as much a scraping step as a kick. It manifests again in our "twenties" section of the dummy set (second section), and is practiced on both sides there.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo
Hi Kathy Jo,

I agree with the scraping kick application.

'Nother Point:Thrice for practice and once for show. Ben Der has us practice three kicks at that point of the second set (chum kiu): left, right, left, winding up at our starting point as we would have with one, but our set "officially" contains only one. This is the only variation between demoing a form and practicing it that we have built in to their practice.

I like the insight of just doing it one-sided and see what happens to the other side as a development tool. :D Might be another of those unexplained serendipitous Wing Chun training phenomena/characteristics, like why intent works. :D

Cheers,

[yuanfen]

S.Teenas says about TST, IM and the forst chum kiu kick:

Yip Man said that he should just practice on the left side, and see how he goes. TST said after practicing for a while as YM said; he then started kicking with his right and found it very easy to do the kick.
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There you go- an example of development. In the progress of wing chun there are stages of devlopment. By the time one gets to regular mok jong work additional kicks emerge.
From stance building, to turning to stepping and kicking without losing control or balance...all are quite well marked markers in
development.

[yuanfen]

mea culpa and a true apology for mistyping Teebas in my last post.. Sorry. Truly.

[reneritchie]

The YKS/Sum Nung Chum Kiu likewise has an asymetrical kick near the end, in our case, a side kick. I have heard Yip Man originally did a side kick as well, but later changed it to a slant kick as seen in most decendant sets today. That's neither here nor there, but it does seem, across the lineages as passed down from Wong Wah-Bo, there is that little enigma.

I myself asked that same question, and was reminded that the forms were 'point' in nature, and that while mostly they would have you do both sides, where they didn't, it was up to you to train both anyway, just like there might only be one rep of some motions, but 3 of the others, still meant you should drill more than the one rep on your own.

Maybe it's like Tom Bombadil (yes, I await part 2 anxiously), and it's something put in just to make sure we're not mindless, but are thinking, questioning, and putting some thought into our training.

RR

[aelward]

This kick is my absolute favorite part of the CK form, because of its uniquness and versatility.

Much like in J.Weiland's example, my Sifu teaches it "officially" as one left circling->thrust kick. But he says you can do it as "left, right, left" kicks (an odd number so that your finishing punch will start on the left) as well.

just to add a little...

RTBuddha writes:
> the reason i'm given, and no one seems that confident of this
> reason, is that it's more of a surprise kick with few applications.

I am not sure what the WT slant kick looks like, but our final kick is slightly circular in nature. If you are kicking with the left leg, the knee rises up toward the right; then you turn your body to the left and the knee moves to the left while the ankle remains stationary in the air; then the lower leg thrusts; finally, it lands so that you are now in a turned horse position.

Because of this unique trajectory, it has a few of applications. First, you have slanted knee attacks: inside to outside gate, outside to inside gate. Second, as an extension, you can use it to jam round kicks at close range. Third, you can redirect thrust and front kicks and attack an opponent's support leg. Also, you can use it as an escape from a sweep (going in the direction of a sweeping leg, lifting up, then striking). Probably more applications, too...

[jesper]

Aelward is a different name for the same kick :)

Might be some minor diffs, in application but nothing to fuss about

[bglenn]

In the version of Chum Kui that I practice, we use a side kick. I have seen footage of Ip Man performing the slant kick.This brings me to another point, were taught that the nature of the kick is the same despite what varations happen out of circumstance. Meaning that all the different kicks have one common bond,simple direct and straight.I was told that there was two things that could represent the nature of the system and those would be the yat chi chung choi and dim gerk,because they hold all of those qualities.

[yuanfen]

glenn says:In the third Section of Chum Kiu there is just one kick with the left leg.


aelward says:Much like in J.Weiland's example, my Sifu teaches it "officially" as one left circling->thrust kick. But he says you can do it as "left, right, left" kicks (an odd number so that your finishing punch will start on the left) as well.
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Are you folks talking about the same section of chum kiu?

glenn said third section- depends on how you count.
aelward seems to be referring to the final section of chum kiu.

Are you on the same page?

[yuanfen]

I now see that you are both talking about the final motions in chum kiu.

Which kick- side, slant, thrust or circle- Ok IMO- they come from the same foundation and the chum kiu turn.

[Frank Exchange]

I have also heard S.Teebas "most people are left handed" interpretation, which seems as good as any I have heard.

But, I definitely agree that just cos you do it on one side in the form, doesnt mean that you are stuck doing it on that side for the rest of your life. Like at the end of SLT, if you want to do 4 punches, or 40, it doesnt matter, it is the concept that is important.

And, Rene, unlike the final kick in chum kiu, I was really glad they left out Tom Bombadil in pt 1. Utter waste of time in my opinion. Some overblown pipe smoking yokel, spouting rhymes and espousing the 'ideal' of the english countryman, whilst managing to add nothing at all to the plot was best avoided, in my opinion. And he wore yellow boots, apparently, which just hammered the final nail in the coffin. :)

[rubthebuddha]

guess it's unanimous, then. there are variations in form and application, but we should all practice the heck out of this kick.