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scuba steve
12-07-2002, 04:35 PM
Well now I'm confused.

I was just reading the true history of Shaolin from the Bak Fu Pai System of Grandmaster Doo Wai.

http://www.ironpalm.com/VPhistory.html

JungShee Lacy states:

"After the collapse of the Ming government, Fung Doe Duk, Bak Mei, Mew Hing, and Jee Shin Shim Shee all fled back to the trusted Fukien temple from which they were rooted. It was there that they took on the life of Monkhood once again. This time, though, they had a hard driving force behind their return. They all swore a blood oath to overthrow the Manchus and reestablish the Ming dynasty as sovereign rulers once again. And all, with the exception of one, were willing to die for their cause.

Back at Fukien the five elders amassed and organized a following of almost a million strong. These were all willing to give their lives for their cause. These members all belonged to the "HEAVEN AND EARTH SOCIETY", otherwise known as the TRIAD. This society used the "Bot Gwa" as their symbolism and emblem. It was from the philosophy of this "Bot Gwa" (the explanation of the balance of heaven, earth and man) that the society took on their trade name TRIAD.

Once within the temple walls the four again came under the direction of their former teacher, now the chief abbot of the entire Fukien temple. As chief abbot he had over 2,800 monks and nuns under him. He was also very old at this time and as fate would have it, he did not live long enough to see the destruction of his temple and family. Before he passed on, he left the responsibility of the chief abbot of Fukien to his all time favored and most skilled student, Fung Doe Duk. Placed directly under Fung Doe Duk to serve in the capacity of the chief elders were Bak Mei, Mew Hing, Jee Shin Shim Shee, and the nun Ng Mui. So now as the highest ranking chief elders in the temple, the four, along with Ng Mui began to plot the overthrow of the Manchu government. "

This says Fung Doe Duk was the head of the Southern Shaolin temple not Su Kong Dai Jin or Yat Chum and where is Jeung Ngh?

There are several Bak Fu Pai websites with this research and these facts. And in fact JungShee Lacy has written several articles in KungFu/Qigong magazine. He is a most prolific writer in all the major magazines, as you can see:

http://www.ironpalm.com/arc.html

And how does White Tiger Wing Chun fit into this?

yuanfen
12-07-2002, 05:05 PM
Looks like lots of research is going on!
Success has a thousand fathers...

tparkerkfo
12-07-2002, 05:09 PM
Each martial family has their own account of what really happened. Wing Chun has at least three different version. Bak Mei nay have a differnt one as well. According to Leung Ting, the Triads list completly differnt people. Some times Jee Shim is the head, sometimes not. ANd every one beleives there story is the true correct one. But we know they all cannot be.

Don't beleive all you read.
________
SQUIRTING VIDEOS (http://www.****tube.com/categories/38/squirting/videos/1)

t_niehoff
12-07-2002, 06:36 PM
Scuba Steve wrote:

Well now I'm confused.

I was just reading the true history of Shaolin from the Bak Fu Pai System of Grandmaster Doo Wai.
---------------------

I think just about every chinese martial art, at one time or another, has attempted to link their origin to the Shaolin Temple. IMHO it's no BFD.

Terence

scuba steve
12-08-2002, 01:53 AM
Then what about all the people trying to link Wing Chun to the Shaolin Temple? How are their attempts any more valid?

And where are the Shaolin movements in Wing Chun?


Originally posted by t_niehoff
Scuba Steve wrote:

Well now I'm confused.

I was just reading the true history of Shaolin from the Bak Fu Pai System of Grandmaster Doo Wai.
---------------------

I think just about every chinese martial art, at one time or another, has attempted to link their origin to the Shaolin Temple. IMHO it's no BFD.

Terence

CLOUD ONE
12-08-2002, 02:17 AM
Scuba wrote-"And where are the Shaolin movements in Wing Chun?"

The movement in SLT "three prayers to Buddah" maybe.

t_niehoff
12-08-2002, 08:05 AM
Hi,

"Scuba Steve" wrote:

Then what about all the people trying to link Wing Chun to the Shaolin Temple? How are their attempts any more valid?

And where are the Shaolin movements in Wing Chun?
----------------------

Most TCMA's -- including all lineages of WCK, I believe -- trace in some way their origin to the Shaolin Temple. For me, this oral tradition is an allegorical truth (I don't see how every art can be literally correct, and I think it arrogant to think they're all wrong but we're right): highlighting that the method in question drew on their country's (China's) most-esteemed martial and cultural traditions. It's been my experience that most serious practitioners don't take these claims literally (although some do), and certainly don't take them as important in validating their method (the proof is in the pudding, not where the recipe for the pudding came from). TN

With that said, I don't think the boat is in -- or has even left the dock for that matter -- on any genuine "attempts" to factually link WCK with the Shaolin Temple. Until we can see for ourselves, so that we can judge for ourselves, the fruits and methods of any research, all that we're left with are claims, assertions, reports of oral traditions, etc. Undocumented "research" proves nothing; as your example demonstrates, in those cases all "research" (or claims) are equally valid. TN

As I said in another thread, while we can say some things with great assurance regarding WCK's immediate history, things get murky after just a few generations ago. (Although in some cases, things are murky much, much sooner.) Personally, I think that this topic is an interesting academic question (academic in the sense that if WCK is proved not to have a direct link to Shaolin it won't matter to my practice of the art) that so far has received, not surprisingly, little genuine academic (rigorous) focus. TN

BTW, on Jarek's website he even compares movements of Chen Tai Ji to Shaolin arts! See, http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/taiji/chenboxingmanuals.html
for his article.

Terence

BSH
01-06-2003, 09:38 PM
I wouldn't trust anything that comes from IronPalm.com about Bak Fu Pai. James Lacey is not recognized by GM Doo Wai at all. If you want info on what Bak Fu Pai claims, try searching on google for sites. You should find a few.

hunt1
01-06-2003, 10:11 PM
Ignore most historical claims. In the southern forums it was posted that there is a book that was the work of 18 different chineese scholars published in the early 80s on southren martial arts. Very interesting reading. Surprised or should I say not surprised that none of the WC historians out there have read this book. The scholars examined all the written reords they could find. Interesting things include no written record anywhere of a Jee Shim.

Fubokuen
01-08-2003, 11:21 AM
I don't believe that you are "confused". You know very well this is Jim Lacy's site and he alone is responsible for the BS in it's pages...

Now YOU, by pretending to be naive and easily "confused", are just assisting con-men like Jim Lacy in their "Let's make up a bunch of garbage and say a Chinese man taught us" bids for transient fame. What can be done with the bigmouth liars that peeps love to hear? Nothing. Only ignorant people buy the mags and read the websites. They are the ones that support it. It's called "MA in America".

Indeed, causing and continuing "confusion" is all these creeps have to offer. Instead of purposefully spreading sh*t, why not be concerned about the rep of the GM of your system?