How to neutralise quickly ?

[TzuChan]

Hey, I had this knife-attack in the subway, which was kinda gay since the dude was about 16 years old lol, I mean where is the world going to =/ So he wanted money from my friend, my friend apparently grabbed the hand so that the knife wouldn't touch him, then I arrived, and the dude freaked out and he ran away. But what if you are all alone you know, like the usual subway thing, and get a 1vs1 situation, where the dude is usually 10 cm taller then you (or is it just me lol). Where would you hit him (once) to be able to stun/neutralise him, in order to be able to walk away without any harm to yourself ? If he attacks you with a knife you can beat him up quite hard I heared (I do lawschool) as long as he is still threatening you with the knife (since you don't have one). So I was wondering where you would hit him when he's taller, or equal (smaller is normally no prob, cause you're better MA usually + psychological you already feel stronger). I mean this might sound weird, but after 4 times of trying to rob me, I'm feeling a little edgy about wheater or not I will always be able to use no violence while not having to give them anything. Cause so far I didn't have to use violence, but it's getting pretty sad around here the last couple of years. So I'm just wondering, 'what if'

[SevenStar]

if confronted with a knife, you want to run away.

If you can't get away, dont worry about where to hit him and stun him - what if it doesn't stun him? Your first mission is to conrtol the weapon hand so that he can't use it. Whatever you do, DO NOT try to kick the knife hand, like so many people tell you to do. It's way to easy to cut someone's leg if the kick misses, or he can lunge in and stab you while you are still slightly off balance.

look at his grip on the knife. If he has a heaven grip, try to get to the the outside of his arm and control it. On the outside, you are zoned off from his other weapons, so now you can focus on either locking the knife arm or landing a few shots, ramming his head into a nearby wall, etc.

If he has an earth grip, I'd try the same thing, but you're probably screwed regardless because he may actually know how to use a knife.

[curtis]

Trying not to be in that situation, is the best answe for you.

Control of the weapon is critical. How you do that is up to you.

As far as the area to strike, I would recommend the throat. It is easy to hit is very easy to damage. If you can just off of the trachea you can easily knock the opponent out. And if you hit into the windpipe its self.... WELL after all it is a life-and-death situation.

It's always better to be tried by 12 then to be carried by 6.

Good luck
sincerely yours
C.A.G.

[Former castleva]

Quite a wide issue on it´s own.
Might sound a bit analytical and possibly annoying but it is so hard to say since situations differ and it is not too likely that your chosen,pre-arranged target or technique will be on your hands.
But with a decent knowledge of notable vital points and you´d have it down (as far as it comes to them)
If you could keep your distance,you could strike him with your longest weapon (foot) and sidekick his knee.
If done properly,which is not that easy,it would probably jam his plans,and knee (rendering him immobolized)
This is only one thing and area to think of,but for now...
My 2 euros.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by curtis
It's always better to be tried by 12 then to be carried by 6.

And better to run and be thought a coward by 2, than pull a man-train for 10 in San Quentin.

[MonkeySlap Too]

If he intends to use the knife, and you run, chances are you will get killed. We've run this scenario down too many times. The odds are with the guy with a knife.

If he just intends to threaten, running can work. The risk is your choice.

Seeking to control the weapon can be a fatal mistake in some scenarios, especially if the weapon is free - often it is best to get past the weapon and 'defang the head'. Once his computer is down, you can dis-arm (emphasis mine) him.

If the weapon is stationary and against you, it is often best to understand how to control it through your opponents body. If the weapon is free - and you have no weapons of your own, it is best to 'de-fang' the head.

Just my opinion, from a lot of knife fighting. Be sudden, get tight with your opponent. Beleive it or not, but distance is your enemy.

(The first rule of knife club, is you don't talk about knife club.)

After the altercation, check yourself for cuts - you often won't feel when a bleeder is hit.

Well, gotta go practice my stabbin'.

[SevenStar]

I was gonna mention de-fanging the snake - I had a brain ****. Ah well. You're the better knife guy anyway :D

[MonkeySlap Too]

Heh. Read it again, it's 'defang the head' - a different idea altogether...

[MonkeySlap Too]

Distraction is also a very useful tool. Have something to toss in his eyes. Bore him with wierd, unrelated converrsation (I used this tactic once, amazeingly effective.)

But mostly remember - if you dislodge his ability to fuction, you've dislodged his weapon. Seek the over function of his every movement so you do not end up in a 'struggle' for the weapon.

Mostly - if you are really concerned about this, go find a skilled knife player, and learn.

[TzuChan]

Sure, where to start .. 'hey sir .. you any good with killin' people with a knife ?'

[MonkeySlap Too]

Go to www.Serak.com - a good place to start. Pak Vic can probably offer some good direction to you.

[MonkeySlap Too]

You can also go to www.Kuntaosilat.com and get the 'heartless mokey knife' video.

[Mr Punch]

Seven StarIf he has a heaven grip

What's a heaven grip?


Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too
'heartless mokey knife' video.

What's a mokey?

[MonkeySlap Too]

Mokey is a rare polynesian knife crafted from volcanic ash and the blood of virgins.


Oops - I meant 'Heartless MONKEY knife.'

Heaven grip means the blade points up to the sky, as opposed to an 'earth' grip, where it points down or away from the thumb.

[SevenStar]

hmm...dunno defang the head then - how's it differ from defanging the snake?

[MonkeySlap Too]

As a primary strategy - 'defanging the head' refers to rocking thier noggin. Instead getting into a potential strength against strength 'rasslin' match with your opponents knife - you rely on entering and controlling the core of the body - you establish this by using head shots in your entry - while the persons conciousness is being rocked by the headshots, you gain the opportunnity to disable them, and yes disarm them.

Basically if they cannot think, they cannot fight.

[Mizong_Kid]

to a amateur in kung fu.....and being faced with a knife.....

trying to block an incoming knife strike is too dangerous......u cud get ur hands cut off!

[18elders]

how much is your life worth? Give the guy your money and see another day. I'd rather be out some money than an unsuccessful hero.

[scotty1]

"I'm feeling a little edgy about wheater or not I will always be able to use no violence while not having to give them anything"

If the choice was to use violence or give them something, unless it was my girlfriend, I would give it to them!

The latest advice I have read about knives was, if you cannot get away and an attack happens, if you're lucky enought to avoid it, work hard to neutralise the threat fast. Offense is the best defense and all that. You're gonna get cut if you go all defensive anyway, might as well give it a shot.

Any thoughts?

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by 18elders
how much is your life worth? Give the guy your money and see another day. I'd rather be out some money than an unsuccessful hero.

That's true - sometimes. Not all people will attack you for money - some will do it just for the heck of it, others for gang initiations, etc. against those people, you'd better try to fight and get away.

[Laughing Cow]

I also agree give the dude your money.

If he wants your watch or other valuables, hope that your insurance-fu is up to date.

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by SevenStar


That's true - sometimes. Not all people will attack you for money - some will do it just for the heck of it, others for gang initiations, etc. against those people, you'd better try to fight and get away.

How would you tell the difference??

[SevenStar]

I would guess the attitude of the person - I've never been robbed, but I have been at knifepoint - he didn't care about money, he just wanted to hurt someone.

[tedward]

If he has an earth grip ive never seen anyone use this grip (except in the latest james bond movie) can any one give a quick list of pros and cons for this grip?

[ricksitterly]

in that situation, i would pull out my gun.

[ricksitterly]

o wait... i dont have a gun. darn. that would be cool though

[No_Know]

Train the second nuckles and second segments of your hand, usually the bottom part of a plam down fist (thumb moved down or to the side).

This would be a pawing/knocking strike...

If you did one strike I recommend this, as it shields your fingers somewhat. And if you learn the nerves (or whatever) of the back of the hand and practice striking them with your trained paw/knock hand (hopefully each is trained by then), hopefully theoretically person would not be able to keep hold of the knife and if both unarmed, assailant might turn tail. No fight. No more risk at the moment. Perhaps a blade to sell at a pawn shop for a bit-o change more than you had before (if you care to risk getting caught carrying a concealed or lethal weapon).

If this technique works for you, please turn the knife in, to a police station or police person or transit authority. First stating that you were attacked earlier and the assailant left this at the scene. You didn't want some child to get it.~

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by tedward
ive never seen anyone use this grip (except in the latest james bond movie) can any one give a quick list of pros and cons for this grip?

The earth grip gives you better control of the blade it also allows you to parry if necessary.

On the bad side, you have a slightly shorter range than you have with the heaven grip. It's better for slashing than thrusting.

[No_Know]

cons: has to be raised; forward motion stoppable without doing damage;

pros: hidden slash;can be use while punching normally;the butt can be a rising or inward blunt weapon strike.

[PaiLumUmar]

How many of us carry a knife routinely?
Cutting off the head is the most efficient way of dealing with that threat. Getting hold of the Weapon hand is key but only in order to offer you time for (hopefully) a vital point strike, if not then a stun will work provided you can follow up well.

But you may not be so luck depending on the reaction of the assailant. Never get into a ****ing contest over who gets to have the weapon. One problem with getting hold of the weapon hand on the outside is, though you make get your strike in, you have effectively turned the vital points away ie. eyes, throat. Also its an easy job to weapon switch to the other hand. You would HAVE to be a pro to get that to work well against some one with the slightest experience with a knife.



But wait there's more...Any one here from New York?

[Losttrak]

Cooperate. Dont risk your life over your Blockbuster card... hell you prolly owe a fortune to BB anyways...

Mind his physical attitude. Try to determine if he is gonna stab you anyways. If you think he is gonna whack you, first be prepared to distract him... eyes, talking to "someone", sudden shout. Remember that a sudden shout actually causes people to freeze as sudden loud sounds assault the nervous system. This way you can buy yourself some time for your follow up action.

What action you take is a matter of debate. Aiming for balls/eyes/throat is pretty risky as it required a certain amount of accuracy. Going for the knife barehanded is risky as well since he may be experienced at its use... and all that implies. A push (where you are moving backwards lowering your weight as you shove him back so he cannot slash you as he steps back) might be effective since it allows you some distance and a chance to make a break for it.

If you cannot flee for whatever reason, you gotta attack full bore. I would normally accept the fact that I am gonna get cut... Immobilize the knife hand... grab with both hands, twist a finger, bite a finger off... disable the arm in any way possible. If you are faced with taking a stab try to twist away from it since it lessens the depth with which it will penetrate. Keep in mind that if you get knifed in the stomach and it penetrates the diaphragm you loose the ability to hold in your bowels.... makes things a little more difficult.

If the knife arm is disabled: 1) there is a better chance for survival in hand to hand, 2) there is a better chance the aggressor may simply flee once the advantage is lost.