sidekick

[babooon87]

Ok, in my life,I have been thaught 2 ways to do a sidekick.

Some say the supporting leg should be bent for more stability and other things...

Some say the supporting leg should be strait for more power...

Both seem to work well and give stability and strenght, I have been doing it the leg bent for one year then, I was told it had to be leg strait and did it for a year like that , and recently I have been told I should do it leg bent.

anyone knows whats the real way of doing it, or it doesnt really matter?

[apoweyn]

i've never seen any benefit to keeping the base leg straight, honestly.

speaking of confusing variations, i was taught one in which the base foot doesn't turn at all (so that the hips don't turn at all). that variation gave me fits. but it did lend itself to hand followups, which is precisely what that teacher had in mind.


stuart b.

[SevenStar]

there was another side kick thread not too long ago - do a search. you may find something pertaining to this there.

[babooon87]

thanks

[David Jamieson]

range will determine which.

you can use either.

In Shaolin, the joints are never hyper extended, but they are quite straight.

The joint should always be ready to "spring" so locking it is often bad form.

use what is effective for you, not only in practice and demonstration, but in application.

peace

[dnc101]

I tend to agree with Kung, plus a few.

Range, whether you want power or speed, your position relative to your opponent, the flow of the fight, and how high you are kicking will determine how you do it. I tend to keep my supporting leg bent because most of my side kicks are low, fast snapping kicks. And Kenpo likes to keep a mobile but stable base.

[babooon87]

thanks alot to all, Ill keep the knee bent,alway made a bit more sense to me.

[yu shan]

To express power thru a side kick, or any other technique, one must be taught the proper use and how to of "Fa-Jing". The center of the Universe is the waist! "Fa" (Express, to put out) "Jing" (Energy Power). We have exercises to teach the whipping chain movement, and the use of pelvic, heel & shin. This takes a Teacher who knows of this, and time.

[neito]

i have always had trouble understanding the side kick. i can do one against a heavybag, but i can never put it to use. i think its because i maintain a farely "frontal" stance.

[Former castleva]

Keeping the supporting knee slightly bent should be good for many kicks.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

the straighter i had it the more i'd be worried that someone would break my leg.

[Former castleva]

A good point you have there.
Even a knee is pretty hard to snap if it is bent.

[apoweyn]

kung lek,

what effect does a bent or straight supporting leg have on range? i'm not sure i'm picturing this properly.


stuart b.

[Kristoffer]

But would a kick without turning the suporting foot, not turning the hip at ALL even be considered a side-kick?

[babooon87]

The straight leg kick has a bit more range because , when bending the leg, you move the hips a little towards the back, so bent leg=less range

And for what Kristopher said, I think if you dont move the hips, its not a side kick.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

its still a side kick in my book. i kick both ways (pivoting on the supporting leg and not) and i am able to get about the same amount of power either way.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

.... actually i favor not pivoting.

[apoweyn]

babbon87,


Originally posted by babooon87
The straight leg kick has a bit more range because , when bending the leg, you move the hips a little towards the back, so bent leg=less range

by how much? that difference sounds negligible to me. i really can't imagine that a difference like that is going to make the difference in power, penetration, etc. it might in terms of actually touching an opponent. but bringing an appreciable amount of force to bear on a target? i kinda doubt it.


And for what Kristopher said, I think if you dont move the hips, its not a side kick.

and that's a valid point on your part and kristoffer's. but i disagree. not because i liked that variation on the sidekick. truthfully, i hated it and have never used it since. but that doesn't make the term invalid. (man, why are all my debates lately about semantics?!)

what defines a kick? presumably not the position of the hip. the hip position is, for many people, the same in a round, sidekick, or hook kick. what defines a kick, to my mind, is trajectory and foot position. and in this teacher's version, the foot is turned to the side and the trajectory is straight inward, just like other variations on the sidekick.

i think he did this because of his traditional japanese background, but heavily modified for his kickboxing coaching. i've noticed in traditional japanese karate, the base foot doesn't turn over as much as in some other systems. in some cases, dramatically so. but in all cases, it's not all that pronounced because of the side-on stance.

in this case, it was very pronounced because of a more squared-up stance (making followup crosses easier). his point was partly that a common sidekick makes it more difficult to followup with a big rear hand. it's a concern i've heard echoed by several kickboxers (and addressed by several sanshou proponents).

anyway, as far as i'm concerned, it remains a sidekick based on those criteria. but i don't practice it anymore. not like that.


stuart b.

[apoweyn]

while we're dissecting the sidekick, what's people's take on this:

to stick, or not to stick. that is the question.

do you retract the kick immediately? or stick it for a sec? why?



stuart b.

[apoweyn]

more people in the 'no pivot' camp than i'd expected.

:)

for me: bent knee, full pivot, immediate retraction

[dnc101]

Originally posted by apoweyn
while we're dissecting the sidekick, what's people's take on this:to stick, or not to stick. that is the question.do you retract the kick immediately? or stick it for a sec? why?stuart b.

Never leave a kick hanging, even if it worked. However, we do two typesof side kick- snaping and thrusting.

The snap returns quicker, like a jab. Not as much power, but a lot faster in and out. The base foot does not turn and you don't get as much hip into it. Targets are usually lower, especially knees.

A thrusting side kick getsa lot of hip into it, the base foot pivots. The kick goes straight in an returns along the same path, like you deployed it in and out through a straight, narrow tube. The hips drive the kick, and the mor hip rotation the better your technique and power. And it makes a big difference to both. To see the difference in power, you only need a heavy bag. Kick it hard as you can both ways and see how it swings.

To illustrate one important aspect of technique, I'll give you a 'war story'. I was working out and sparing with a TKD & Escrima brown belt. He was getting ready to test for black, and wanted to spar with different styles to improve his 'game'. He was an excellent fighter, and as you'd expect, a good kicker. But every time he threw a side kick to my mid section I trapped it. I finally told him how I was doing it- actually he was doing it to himself. I moved the target and did an inside downward block. He was dropping the kick just a little on the withdrawal. To watch, you'd hardly notice. But I could feel that kick drop right into the basket, and the response was so automatic that he and I realized he was traped at about the same time. We worked on our basics, pulling those kicks straight back out. It is difficult to trap a side kick, even if intentionally left hanging for training purposes, because the straight pull back slips right out and the counter rotation of the hips as you withdraw adds force in that direction also.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

"Never leave a kick hanging"

agreed 100%. it's a very bad habbit and a difficult one to fix. at least it was for myself ... i still catch myself doing it from time to time.


a little disagreement on the latter half of the post though. with the thrusting side i have found that, with practice, you can get nearly as much power without rotating on your grounded foot. there is definatley a little more power when i do rotate, but i don't find it to be a huge difference. maybe i just havent practiced the pivoting way enough because of personal peferences.

"....... and see how it swings"

hehe

i was always happier when the bag wouldn't swing but would rather dent and give me that thunking sound. i thought this was a result of better penetrating power.

[dnc101]

GDA,

People and styles are different, so your point of disagreement is well noted. God point about the dent- I suppose it depends on the bag, where and how you kick it. How deep it dents? How hard it 'jumps'? Whatever gauge you use, just kick it. Theory without application is a mind game for keyboard commandos.

Speaking of which, I'd better go do something else pretty quick. Diversions are ok, but this one is habbit forming.

[babooon87]

I do it this way: knee bent(not much), pivoting, leaving the kick for a second

I know that everyone will disagree but I feel that leaving the kick for a second give the time for the energy to travel to the leg and hit the target, I know this sounds stupid of course.

And I think if you turn the foot stability is better because when your foot is pointing in the opposite side if the target it has more room(the hole length of the foot) to absorb the energy that rebounds to you when you hit the target, and you have the knee to absorb too.

But if you dont move the foot:

1-you will loose stability because of what I said just befor.
2-you will loose a bit of power because its harder to move the hips in that position.

But an advantage to not moving the foot is that its faster to do and to retract, so your less vulnerable if the technique fails.

[apoweyn]

babooon87,

not everyone disagrees with you. (though i'm not sure about the rationale.) many instructors tell you to 'stick' the sidekick. personally, i disagree. i think that results in dissipating the force into a push. whereas withdrawing results in a punching force. but that's a bit metaphysical and based solely on personal experience. and experience is very subjective, so... pass the salt.


stuart b.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

1-you will loose stability because of what I said just befor.

... i dont find this to be the case. what you said above absolutely makes sense, but i havent had any problems being pushed off balance even when the bag's swining back at me. this is probably due to the fact that my supporting leg is bent at about a 45 degree angle though. my teacher is all about being low and not raising during a kick.

[OdderMensch]

it that they are able to take out the lower powered goons while you can have a dark and brodding debate with the real bad guys.

:D

as for sticking since I do WC i try to "stick" my side kicks by useing the extended leg as a step in. intead of retracting the leg, i step to it.

[JusticeZero]

A major reason to turn your foot to do a side kick doesn't have anything to do with tactics, it has to do with the fact that if your weight isn't aligned properly, you will damage your knees a little more each time you do the kick.

[babooon87]

Thats it justice, thats about what I was tring to explain, thanks for explaining clearly.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

why does it damage the knees? i haven't noticed any problems nor seen more knee injuries than avarage at my kwoon. i can kinda see what your saying but is the stress on the joint really going to be enough to damage it if you are deeply rooted.

i ask cause ill start kicking the other way if it definately hurts your knees. i have to start from scratch in january anyway so there's no better time to start new habbits.

[JusticeZero]

Because the force returned from your kick connecting moves through your body into the floor. If you don't have your heel pointed at the target, this means that you are channeling the force of one of your most high power techniques sideways across your knee joint. If it's more extreme of a lack of twist, you're also twisting the joint with the force from the alignment issues themselves. Force across the knee is a bad thing, it's like eating a joint breaking technique every time you do it.

[apoweyn]

justicezero,

you mean sideways across your base knee joint? huh. i'd never thought of that before. (i do turn my foot, so i guess i've never had much cause to). interesting.

i don't think that would be as much an issue if you're retracting it immediately, but i don't know. that's actually a really good point.


stuart b.

[dnc101]

Originally posted by apoweyn
justicezero,
you mean sideways across your base knee joint? huh. i'd never thought of that before. (i do turn my foot, so i guess i've never had much cause to). interesting.
i don't think that would be as much an issue if you're retracting itmediately, but i don't know. that's actually a really good point.

Excellent point by Justicezero, and a good reason we turn the base foot on that thrusting side kick. It has extension, which can stress joints if improperly done.

With the snaping side kick though, it isn't just the immediate retraction but the fact it does not extend like the thrust. It also isn't used for higher targets, and doesn't have the power of a thrust. It's main purpose is to dammage or control his base while minimizing the time you compromise yours. And, like a jab, it is a good way to set him up for something else. Keeps him worried about protecting more than one height zone. It can be deployed to the front or side without turning the base foot, which makes it both quick and versatile. Ex: dealing with multiple opponents. A snaping side kick to the side to stop forward momentum of one opponent while dealing with an opponent to your front. Since it returns quickly you are still mobile and havn't spent a lot of time on one leg (microseconds are a lot of time in a fight).

[fa_jing]

When you don't pivot or use less of a pivot, it is necessary to have your body weight moving forward to counteract the reactive force. It is possible to do a thrusting kick even with little or no pivot.

[babooon87]

I still think if you dont move your foot its not a real sidekick.

In my book a sidekick is a kick that is done with a complete hip rotation, your hip must be in the same direction than the kick, so turning the kick is part of the technique and has to be done at least a little bit to have your supporting leg, your hips and your kicking leg aligned together and give you good power and stability.

[apoweyn]

babooon87,

well, you're getting into semantics then. a kick isn't a sidekick because it doesn't meet your definition of a sidekick. and that's fine. there's no real disputing that. to my mind, it is a sidekick. and frankly, i wouldn't know what else to call it. i could make up another name, i suppose. but there seems little sense in that.

in any event, it's just a word. the differing mechanics are worth discussing. the application of the name is a bit of a fool's errand. (of course, i'm very often the fool doing that errand. :) )


stuart b.

[dnc101]

fa-jing, doesn't it destroy ballance to move your weight forward while on one leg, or am I missing something in how you do it? We, and other styles I'm familiar with, want the option to retract the kick and step away. It seems that if you move your ballance forward your only option is to drop right in front of him.

Babooon, as I said earlier, styles are different. We differentiate between a thrusting and a snapping side kick, while in your style apparently only the thrusting one would be a sidekick. That is just semantics- my labels are not necessarily better than yours. The principles are important, though, as doing it improperly can result in knee injury or a busted face, or both. Just curious, does your style have an equivalent to our snaping side kick?

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by babooon87
In my book a sidekick is a kick that is done with a complete hip rotation, your hip must be in the same direction than the kick, so turning the kick is part of the technique and has to be done at least a little bit to have your supporting leg, your hips and your kicking leg aligned together and give you good power and stability.


In my book, a sidekick is a kick that goes to the side. As opposed to a kick that goes to the front, or a kick that travels a circular path.

Anything more detailed than that is just dividing up different types of sidekicks.

[rogue]

"to stick, or not to stick. that is the question.
do you retract the kick immediately? or stick it for a sec? why?"

Supporting leg slightly bent, no pivot low blade of foot, pivot when kicking to the waist and above using the heel. Retraction depends on how it lands. If it's clean and does damage retract, if it lands but needs a follow up then stick and push off of that bent supporting leg to keep the opponent off balance or do damage. Usually I'll just continue moving forward by bringing the foot directly down from the target which brings me in close for grappling and hand work or even hitting my opponent with a shoulder.

[fa_jing]

dnc101:

Just to be clear, the momentum is generated before the leg is lifted- step up, then kick with front leg in one motion, or push off with the rear leg before kicking with the same rear leg, OR kick from a side stance where neither leg is in front of the other. Yes, your balance is committed to moving forward if the kick catches air. Since Wing Chun likes move forward, it fits into our battle plan (follow up with punches.) However, if things are really bad, you can still bail out to the side, because although the weight is committed, it isn't that extreme. Also I would like you to know that Wing Chun is very selective about kicking, although I am not, personally. :) Real WC kicking is said to happen on three base legs - your 1 and his 2. Open the gates with your hands then stick the kick in from close range. In this case, pivoting forward would actually jam your kick.

Familiar with TKD? Think about the step-behind side kick - also commited to forward momentum.

[dnc101]

Originally posted by fa_jing
Since Wing Chun likes move forward, it fits into our battle plan (follow up with punches.)
Familiar with TKD? Think about the step-behind side kick - also commited to forward momentum.

WC, now I understand. I see where you'd like that as you guys want in close. You use it as a bridge. We like it there too (Kenpo), but want the option of fighting at any distance. If you think I'm going to drop in front of a WCer at close range- dream on! :cool:

I work out with a bunch of TKDers, and so am familiar with their version of the step behind side kick. It is similar to ours. The main purpose of this is not to generate momentum, though. It is to cover distance and achieve a desireable position. They, and we, can retract that kick and step back or to the side. Of course, we can also plant (not drop) forward if the kick did its' job or if we just want in close (and if the opponent doesn't practice WC ;) ).

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by rogue
"to stick, or not to stick. that is the question.
do you retract the kick immediately? or stick it for a sec? why?"

Supporting leg slightly bent, no pivot low blade of foot, pivot when kicking to the waist and above using the heel. Retraction depends on how it lands. If it's clean and does damage retract, if it lands but needs a follow up then stick and push off of that bent supporting leg to keep the opponent off balance or do damage. Usually I'll just continue moving forward by bringing the foot directly down from the target which brings me in close for grappling and hand work or even hitting my opponent with a shoulder.

check out the big brain on rogue! :)

when i initially mentioned the traditional japanese sidekick i'd seen with the hip closed, i should've mentioned that it was a low kick. when i briefly learned shotokan, the hip was never as open as i had done in taekwondo. but it was more open high than it was in the illustration i saw of a low sidekick. interesting point.

i also like the observation about changing the sidekick at the time based on the effect you're going for. a skilled person can make adjustments as they go along, based on what they're looking to achieve from moment to moment. nice.


stuart b.

[babooon87]

I'm sorry guys if, my goal wasnt to say I knew better than anyone else, in fact I probably know alot less than a bunch of you guys, I was just trying to tell my perspective on the sidekick and how I do it, ans yes it is different from style to style

and to answer dnc101, yes, we do snaping kicks at my school, we do all of our techniques with impact, we never "push" our techniques, compared to TKD, witch I have done for several years, where they push alot of their kicks.

[apoweyn]

no need to apologize, mate. you're not being unreasonable. not by a long shot.

[babooon87]

thanks

[yu shan]

Thread starter is concerned with side kick "supporting leg" bent or straight. The importance should be on hip alignment, supporting foot, and Fa-Jing energy directed thru this process. I have not seen anyone acknowledge Fa-Jing "Energy".

[babooon87]

Never heard of it what is it exactly?

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Stumblefist
Sportfighters may have less use for it: with big mitts on, capturing skills not developed. they have a different idea. Maybe that's the source of the argument difference.

Please don't generalize sportfighters in such a manner. San Shou players have "big mitts" on their hands. UFC, Pride, and most amateur USA NHB events have gloves that pad the knuckles and backs of the hands, and have no effect on hand flexibility or the palms. They do not inhibit capturing skills in the least.

[yu shan]

Never been hurt by a kick! Yet your GI buddy can pop you with some kind of a mid-gate-crap kick? The US govern't teaches Crap of hand to hand.

[guohuen]

Yup, that's what happens when the bubble toe of a jump boot squeezes between two ribs in the back.

[yu shan]

How do you defend a side-kick?

[rogue]

Easy and effective.
1. Move out of it's way, and/or
2. Move the kick to either side.
3. Move back just out of it's range.

Needs practice.
1. Crecent Kicking the leg aside. Can also be done with the knee.
2. Slipping the kick and kicking the support leg.
3. Kicking the kicking leg with a front kick.


Careful catching a side kick straight on, sometimes you catch the **** things and the guy will still manage to land it on you.

[omarthefish]

1. stomp kick his but if he chambers, his thigh if he doesn't. (The WT crowd know what I'm saying)

2. shuffle back and drop your elbow on his ankle. For the rest of you. ;)

[yu shan]

Well said Roque,

My experience with TKD practioners, due to their bouncing and high stances, very easy to time and power thru. Extremely vunerable to sweeps and not all effective with hand work. I have found the Korean arts having a fast sidekick, but no power. In CMA, some Shrfus teach Fa-Jing energy with techniques.

[chingei]

omarthefish
Member

Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Xi'an, China

whoa. are you in Xi'an now? What are ya doing there?

[apoweyn]

yu shan,


I have not seen anyone acknowledge Fa-Jing "Energy".

perhaps not in name. people have acknowledged differences in power issuance. if fa jing is different from what's already been mentioned, how so?


stuart b.

[apoweyn]

stumblefist,

i was thinking something similar, yeah. saying "what about [insert culturally specific buzzword here]?!" seems like a bit of a null argument. but i'm trying to give yu shan the benefit of the doubt.

that said, i would like to hear specifically how fa jing differs from the sorts of comments already made on power in this thread. without that explanation, repeated calls of "fa jing" are kinda meaningless. (meaningless to me, as a reader, i mean)


stuart b.

[omarthefish]

Originally posted by chingei
omarthefish
Member

Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Xi'an, China

whoa. are you in Xi'an now? What are ya doing there?

Studying gong-fu silly. :p

[Machimurasan]

Wow. You guys are sidekicking EXPERTS. How can I glean as much as you did in 12 months of McDojo training? HAHAHA!!!

Joking of course...

[apoweyn]

of course.

[rogue]

I always use fa_jing when I fight. It's a bit of a hassle paying for his drinks and carfare but he comes in handy when I push some bikers ride over.

[chingei]

Originally posted by omarthefish


Studying gong-fu silly. :p

Where? With whom?

[babooon87]

I dont understand what fa-jing energy is, is it like chi?

[apoweyn]

from what i've read here, it sounds like the opposite of qi. external energy vs. internal?

this would be a good one to put to the likes of braden for a straight answer.



stuart b.

[babooon87]

The oppsite of qi, external energy? Thats commonly called muscle, am I right:rolleyes:

[apoweyn]

yep. i suppose. but, if i'm not mistaken, the physical expression of muscular power in a coordinated way is what they refer to as fa jing.

however, i'm not a gung fu guy, so my definitions should be heavily salted. you've been warned.


stuart b.

[red5angel]

can I just bust in here and say that if I had a sidekick, I would want him to be shorter then I am. It just looks better that way.

[babooon87]

apoweyn, what art do you practice?

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by red5angel
can I just bust in here and say that if I had a sidekick, I would want him to be shorter then I am. It just looks better that way.


LOL. I'm 6'1" But if that works, I'm in.

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by babooon87
apoweyn, what art do you practice?


babooon87,

i'm a mutt. but i started with 6 years of taekwondo. (lots of sidekicking.) also trained in kali and kickboxing, mostly.


stuart b.

[red5angel]

Rumor around KFO is that Apoweyn has been practicing the dark ninja arts longer and more thoroughly then Ashida Kim and has an organization of evil larger and more insidious then Tmeple Kungfu and he would have you killed on the spot for even uttering the wrong thing to.....uh.....cough.... {edit} Who the heck got on KFO signed in as me!!! Nothing to worry about here Ap, it's all good man, your just a little guy studying the arts and making a living....uh, I have to go now....

[apoweyn]

that's it, red5. you've said too much.

next guy that comes down your chimney ain't gonna be santa. and you can leave as many cookies as you like. you're still getting a ninja star in the ear.

so says the shadow editor.


stuart b.

[red5angel]

Anything but the ears!!!! I get all twitchy and start giggling like a girl when people start playing with my ears.....

[apoweyn]

clearly i've failed to elicit the air of dread and fear i was gunning for.

drat.

[drunkendragon]

the best way i have found (also favored by bruce lee it became his principle side kick after joon rhee taught him it) is the itf tae kwon do method of side kicking. the supporting leg is bent until the moment of extension, then the hip is turned over, the supporting leg's heel is pointed towards the opponent and the leg is straightened. As a result of these motions a spring action is attained as well as centrifical force is generated(due to the foot pivot and turning of hips).

[David Jamieson]

the itf tkd side kick hits then lifts. I have a peference for the punch and drive straight side kick I learned from my Kung Fu sifu.

For me, it has more juice because the leg is parallel to the floor while the itf tkd kick raise the leg more and this takes more energy to do, for me at least.

peace

[Machimurasan]

Originally posted by Stumblefist
Hi Machimurasan!
Let me be among the first to wish you a warm welcome to KFO and to thank you for such an insightful posting. I am sure i speak for many of us humble plodders in thanking you to help us understand our insignificance in the great kungfu reality.
...
I hope you will continue to post and share with us your valuable contributions.
....
HEH HEH

perhaps you are joking, it's great to have fun!
but of course i am just joking too! :)
---------------------------------
Awaiting Yushan with breathless anticipation. I'm so impatient!
Will he squander the benefit of doubts or does he speak the true?!!!

Joking about the welcome? Cool. No need to welcome one who has been here all along, hahaha!

As for insight. Which perspective, which eyes and armed with what knowledge? All joking aside I feel like I'm watching a "Gilligan's Island" rerun. How long did it take before novelty helped them get off that ****ed island? Exactly.

Sidekicks can be delivered in the traditional, schoolboy karate robotic fashion. They can be done with a skip, a turn, a jump, a step-through, or a spin. The supporting leg is usually bent (extended knee is dangerous), and the supporting foot can be turned 45o, adding hip torque in the delivery. They can be done as a thrust (yoko-geri kekomi in Japanese) or as a snap (yoko-geri keage). They are most effective on the legs, but kicks to the mid-section can be good, especially for kumite (slap-tag).

Whipping side kicks, that utilize speed and low-line targets like the knees and various PPs on the anterior, medial, lateral and posterior areas of the legs, are most realistic. Thrusts are usually a no-no unless you are within close range. Stomping kicks to the legs (esp. knees) better defines the "side thrust kick" I am speaking of. Originally "side kicks" were executed like front whip kicks with no knee-up chamber, the leg almost kicking your own arse just before you whipped it towards the target. The leg is rotated in the hip socket, adding torque to the whip. No need to turn your body with this kick. Also, it's fast out and faster back (if that's possible). Sacred secrets!!! Oh, there are no secrets though. Uh-huh...

Enuff for now. There's a little bit of knowledge about sidekicking. You should never even see it coming. No telegraphing by bringing the knee up to waist level, and shooting it out while slightly leaning backwards or however 98% of martial artists traditional or otherwise do it. Thrust kicks are asking for ground time. Ask any GJJ, Judo guy, Shuai Jiao dude or wrestler.

You probably know this stuff though being a Crane stylist. Glad to be here. You guys are funny!

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

while you come accross as conceited i can't disagree with you ... even though i'd like to just for spite.

perhaps im reading too much into your post, but if not i'd have to say that you're a bit of a pr ick to patronize people for gaining knowlege you already possess. some people do come here to learn something and this is one of the few threads in which that might actually be possible. with all the political threads and all the nonsense (posted by fu cks like me), it's refreshing to see a thread about technique no matter how simple it might be.

while i don't agree with every post in this thread, no one said anything retarded or made a statement that deserves ridicule. except maybe this one.

[Machimurasan]

Originally posted by GunnedDownAtrocity
while you come accross as conceited i can't disagree with you ... even though i'd like to just for spite.

perhaps im reading too much into your post, but if not i'd have to say that you're a bit of a pr ick to patronize people for gaining knowlege you already possess. some people do come here to learn something and this is one of the few threads in which that might actually be possible. with all the political threads and all the nonsense (posted by fu cks like me), it's refreshing to see a thread about technique no matter how simple it might be.

while i don't agree with every post in this thread, no one said anything retarded or made a statement that deserves ridicule. except maybe this one.

First off, the reason for all the political banter on these forums is that people will always get mired in the perpetual web of deceit and division. It's structured like that for control purposes. In this way the power structure can rest assured that the focus is NOT on the problem (cause), but the result (effect). Wake up!!! Heeheehee!

Wow, a *****. A big one or little one? I wanna be a big one. Hahaha! You have every right to disagree with my approach. I couldn't care less if you disregarded the logical. That would not be something new in the world. I think you are "objectifying" me based on a very cursory and superficial analysis of my words. I may not sugar coat things, but if you don't concur with my points, I would rather it be based upon some refutation of my theories or experiences. Don't be so shallow as to allow appearances, words or ideology conflict with the truth. I can "butter-up" a lie and give it to you with careful decorum, but that wouldn't make THOSE words any more beneficial than mine.

There were many good points made in this thread. Most folks gave patented answers, but they were honest attempts based on their knowledge of MAs. Sorry to come off as a dic k. I was half-joking, and half-yawning at the time. If you want to learn MAs techs then go train with a reputable instructor, and evaluate what works for you. When it comes to MAs technique, know-how and theory, the truth is that the "have-nots" far outnumber the "haves". Luck and objectivity should play a small, not large, role in the MAs learning process. We should take everyone's words on these forums with a grain of salt. It's all just funtime!!

Train diligently and smart...

Maligayang Pasko!