Hindu Squats - who here has made it to 500?

[fa_jing]

Hey I've got a new favorite exercise. I'm currently doing about 100 a day (on a good day), hope to pump it up to 500 within a year. It's working my knees, but I think in a postive way.

So do you guys relax the calf muscles, or keep the ankles locked? I've been doing more locked, but I thing I've figured out that you're actually supposed to keep them relaxed.

www.mattfurey.com/exercises.html

[SevenStar]

I've never tried for 500. I'll try it tonight.

[MonkeySlap Too]

I do them with my Qi.

While watching TV.

And drinking beer.

[SevenStar]

1. that's WAY too time consuming, and I'm not that patient.
2. my back started hurting :(

I just got done. like I said, I'm not patient. I did 200 and stopped. my legs don't feel tired at all though, and now that I am sitting down, my back feels fine. I bet I can do at least 400, if not the whole 500. I'll have to work my patience and try for the whole thing.

[Ford Prefect]

I used to do 500 and more rather often. Sevenstar is right though in that it gets boring. Sometimes I'd do them in front of the tv, but that gave me motion sickness. ;) After you can do a base amount of say 200 or so, 500 is more of mental challenge than a physical one.

[guohuen]

I used to do 500. 26-27 years ago.:eek:

[SevenStar]

whoa, guohen is like, ancient! :D

[rubthebuddha]

nah. guohuen was just doing hindu squats at the age of 3.

[fa_jing]

Seven* - I'll take that as a no. Thanks for trying, though.

You're supposed to be able to do 500 in 15 minutes - it shouldn't be that boring. And if your back was stressed, as mine is, I take that to mean that you don't have the muscular endurance in your back to complete the 500, that and your form probably needs improving. Sorry to be a hard-ass. I'm sure if you worked at it for a month, you'd get there. You certainly have leg strength in abundance, but there's more to it than that.

Ford - you said you f'd up your knee doing Hindu Squats due to bad form - what exactly were you doing wrong?


I crapped out at 80 this morning.

[Ford Prefect]

I think he meant that he's done 500 in 26-27 years. He paces himself.

[rubthebuddha]

i'm curious as to folks opinions about the knee going so far forward. for all leg exercises i've done, i've been told to keep my knee over my ankle and that letting it go forward of the ankle is a bad thing to do.

your folks' thoughts?

[Ford Prefect]

hey Rub,

I've said it on here before, but you need to be careful doing hindu's. Not everybody is made to do them and the knee isn't a joint to mess with. The reason why I no longer do my hundu's is because I seriously strained a ligament in my knee one day doing them. I had done thousands upon thousands for months up to that point, then I must have just leaned weird because I was instantly floored.

The injury has caused me some serious inconvenience and sidelined me from training for fitness and martial arts for quite some time. I can't do any squatting without a brace and I've completely given up on hindu's because it's just asking for trouble now. A few times, it felt as if I was 100% again and a set of hindu's later I'm out for another month... I still think they have a bunch of benefits. Just be careful guys.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by rubthebuddha
i'm curious as to folks opinions about the knee going so far forward. for all leg exercises i've done, i've been told to keep my knee over my ankle and that letting it go forward of the ankle is a bad thing to do.

your folks' thoughts?

I had thought about that too.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by fa_jing
Seven* - I'll take that as a no. Thanks for trying, though.

You're supposed to be able to do 500 in 15 minutes - it shouldn't be that boring. And if your back was stressed, as mine is, I take that to mean that you don't have the muscular endurance in your back to complete the 500, that and your form probably needs improving. Sorry to be a hard-ass. I'm sure if you worked at it for a month, you'd get there. You certainly have leg strength in abundance, but there's more to it than that.



nah, it's due to a bad lower back. I used to frequent a chiro because of it, which worked wonders. 500 in fifteen minutes? It seems like the 200 took that long.

[guohuen]

.......499......500 Twenty seven years, not bad.:D

[fa_jing]

Seven - You told me about your back. Just thought I'd mention the following

Chiropractic
Acupuncture, but only from an EXPERT
Shiatsu
Rolfing
Yoga
Swedish massage
rest


Also, I know you're into lifting weights - be careful, that powerlifter guy I knew had some seriously messed-up disks in his neck, and he was drug-free, he just said that he made mistakes when he was young, like getting injured and trying to come back too soon, etc. Whatever you have is probably not going to get better unless you seriously address the issue. It will catch up to you eventually. Since you're already a stud-muffin, you could change to lower impact stuff. Well, if you're able to work out for three hours a day, maybe you should just keep doing what you're doing, at least until you pop something! :D

[SevenStar]

I've heard alot of good things about rolfing, but I also hear it's expensive. I've been thinking about looking into it. My chiro is awesome, I just got out of the habit of going. what my back problem is - or at least part of it - is the alignment of it - it's twisted slightly, and the right side is more forward. you can't look at me and tell anything is wrong, but the x-rays show it. the rest I think is inherited somehow. My father, grandfather and great grandfather have/had back probs, and just like mine, they started in the teen years.

There's a masseus here at work that specializes in swedish massage. what's the difference between it and say, shiatsu? we have a shiatsu masseus here also.

[fa_jing]

You have masseuses at work? NICE

Now, if your french is good you mean that they are female, which is certainly nice. However, I think for a big guy (even my size), often a woman doesn't really have the hand strength to do it right. You may be better off with a masseur.

Every kind of back work is expensive, except for Chiro which your insurance may cover. Rolfing is the most expensive, but probably the most effective. Done the right way, it is extremely painful as the Rolfer uses all of his bodyweight to stick his elbow or thumb as deeply as possible into your tissue - like between your calf bones, under your ribs, in your stomach, etc. It should cost about 100 bucks a session, which lasts maybe 90 minutes, and you will be permanently and significantly changed after 10 sessions (a full course.) You may be surprised to find that most of the time is spent on areas other than your back. This is because although there is only one muscle that crosses from above your hips to below your hips (the Psoas,) bands of connective tissue run from your head to your feet. This connective tissue knots up the same as muscles do, in fact they have a close relationship to one another. So to treat a serious back problem, you have to treat the body from the head to the feet. In fact, some of my better sessions were the one for the head and the one for the feet. Modern Rolfing has become less extreme, but this is actually less effective. You want an old-time Rolfer with a cruel streak and good visualization skills. The key thing is that your mind suppresses your existing pain, and that causes these knots to persist. When you accept the pain, mentally, then the knots release. You will actually start to feel "bubbling" sensations travel up and down your connective tissue and muscular tracts, this is called "myofascial release." Myofascial release is the feeling that you need to identify and encourage, whether it is Rolfing, Shiatsu, or Accupuncture.

When I was getting Chiro done, I made alot of progress in the beginning, but after a couple months it was diminishing returns. As I continued my treatment, I got Rolfed. After a few sessions, the Chiropracter was amazed - I had made significant progress that he could see. The problem with Chiro is that it gets your spine a' crackin, but doesn't really address your soft tissue.

Accupuncture is also very effective. In this case, your muscles are pierced a couple inches. You are not used to being "touched" or tweaked there, so again the mind plays an important role. As you relax and learn to accept the needles, you start to experience myofasical release. When the Accupunturist tweaks the needles, again it is stimulation that will give you "pings" and other feelings like shooting electricity that indicate you are making progress. Then, when he puts the vacuum cups on to suck out your "bad chi and blood" -- this is the part that I just do not dig. It may be effective, but I am just not into it.

Shiatsu is very cool. This is a massage, somewhat like a deep-tissue massage although not painful or extreme, that follows your accupuncture (qi) channels. It is similar to Qi Gong massage but is Japanese. Again, you will feel pings, travelling impulses, and myofascial release. True Shiatsu experts use their Hara (Dan Tien) to assist them in thier evaluation. It is very sophisticated.

Swedish massage, is nice. It will help to align you, and make your muscles feel way better. You get in this zone where you want to fall asleep. Great stuff, however of all of the treatments I have described, I feel that the effects of Swedish massage dissapate after a couple of days, and doesn't help you so much in terms of permanently changing your back for the better. If you had a live-in masseuse or masseur and/or could receive daily treatments, this would be the way to go. However, it just isn't as much bang for your buck as the other treatments.

[SevenStar]

we have two females and a male. I can't afford 30 bucks an hour on a regular basis though. there's no way I could do it daily...

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by SevenStar
what my back problem is - or at least part of it - is the alignment of it - it's twisted slightly, and the right side is more forward. you can't look at me and tell anything is wrong, but the x-rays show it.

Not knowing specifics of your back injury, I can't say whether or not this is applicable, but my father and brother both had back problems due to malformations in their hipbones. In both cases, getting an insert into one shoe helped matters enormously, correcting alignment and such.

I, luckily, missed out on that bit of the genetic jackpot.

[fa_jing]

Cases where the bones are actually malformed are rare. In these cases such as the one FatherDog described, shoe inserts are a good idea. However, shoe inserts and heel lifts are over-perscribed by Chiropractors. Just because one hip is higher than the other - doesn't necessarily mean that the bones are longer on one side. When I started the Rolfing course, I had a leg length difference of nearly 1/2 inch. By the time I was finished, this was less than 1/4 of an inch. The length of your femur, tibula and fibula are fixed, however, the arch of your foot can change, the joints can expand, the tilt of the hips and tailbone can change, and the alignment between the shin bones can change.

[eric_thomson]

I looked at the picture of Matt Furey doing the Hindu Squats.

I agree this is a great exercise. With one caveat, his knees are in front of his toes. This will cause repetive stress injury to the patellar ligament (the big central ligament on the front of the leg running from knee to tibia). Stress to the patellar ligament is one the main causes of knee joint destabilization and subsequent development of ostearthritis. If you want to avoid abnormal joint function and pain later on, do the exercise right today! That means, do it with your heels flat on the ground and your knees dehind your big toe. This will also make you stronger in the long run because it elongates the gluteals and bring the muscles on the inner thigh more into play. It also increases balance. I have this very same exercise in a qi gong routine excet we do it with our arms in front like lightly hugging a tree. If you want to bring your calves into the exercise maintain a soft (slightly bent knee) at the top of the exercise and flexx the feet so that you come up to your toes. If you want to bring your shoulder more into the exercise widen the stance a little and when you come down pretend to scoop up a big basin of water bringing hands over the head at the top of the exercise i.e. you are making big circles with your arms. The right arm making a clockwise circle and the left making a counter clockwise circle.

Enjoy,
Eric

[Former castleva]

Shiatsu has caught some major influence from acupressure.
I guess if one could say it is close to acupressure and chinese tuina massage,a mix between these.

Tried hindu squats,makes my left knee crack in a nasty way... :eek:

Never heard of Swedish massage,even though I should have.

(Just rambling and adding stuff from here and there)

[Cashier Graham]

I prefer not to go down and sit on my calves when I squat, for the reasons above and it takes the strain off the quads down there. Do them with weights and you'll soon exceed 500.

[scotty1]

You guys are hardcore - 500 :D

They always feel like they're damaging my knees but I'm probably doing it wrong. Keeping your heels flat seems like a really good idea. Cheers.

[fa_jing]

The thing is, if you keep your heels flat, you can't go down as far, because it would actually strain your knees more, because your weight is pulling back on the joint.

I feel that it is really important to concentrate on form. That's one of the reasons I like the exercise.

[Wilson]

****, after reading this I figured I'd give it a try. Did them pretty slow with a stop at the bottom. Only did 50 but I could really feel them in my legs and it got my breathing going. I can definitely see how it would be a mental thing also. Need to do them with the TV or music on. I'll try to see if I can get to 100 or so later. No way I could do 500 now. Would love to be able to do the 1 leg squats though. That's a power move......think I'm going to start working them.

[rubthebuddha]

speaking of which, what are some tips some folks used to be able to do pistols?

[fa_jing]

I think in order to do the pistols (one-legged squats) with the proper form, and not be damaging my knees or encouraging uncontrolled tension in my body, I am going to follow the advice of Matt Furey and wait till I can do 500 of the 2-legged variety

[fa_jing]

I wanted to keep this to myself, but I can't resist sharing with you guys - I just found a way to greatly increase the effectiveness of my Hindu Sqautting routine. First I do my set of Hindu squats to exhaustion (about 135 now), then now that my quads are tired, I go over and do body-weight box squats using my bed. This engages the other muscles like glutes and hams, lower back better, making for a more complete lower-body workout. I can crank out about 30 more this way. Then I rest and do another set of both.

[Mr. Bao]

I think hindu squats are good in building up endurance but it will not develeop maxium strength or hypertropy. There are other ways of developing endurance which isn't so boring. I can understand the benefits of bw squats, but you dont have to do three or five hundred be weight squats to get to single leg squats. I have successfully got myself to do single leg squats without reaching 100/500 mark bw squat.

How? There are many factors, flexibility, core strength, and the body's coordination of lower and upper body.

It is important to develop your core. My abs are pretty strong in my case, so I worked on my weakest link, my back. I developed my back flexibility and max. strength by doing certain exercises such as dead lifts, reverse hyperextensions. Using PFN and Ai stretch tecnhiques for my back. This helped alot and improved my functional strength big time.

Balance. I workout my core using stability ball daily. But if you are not familar with stability ball work, then I do this basic exercise called single leg dead lifts. I did many single leg deadlifts with my kettlebells this is will develop your core, back, hams, and balance which is an aspects of single leg squats.

Finally, I developed max strength in my legs by doing front squats 4sets of 3-5 reps resting 5-6 min between sets, then I would used an technique of doing single leg squats using a cable system to assist me (three sets of 2-5 reps) until I did it on my own which less then three weeks for me under my new program I started in Jan 6, 03. Now I can sinle leg squats and press a dumbell over my head at same the time.

My friends were impressed that I do a piston and a dumbbell press at the same time. A couple of co workers (personal trainers) bigger than I tried the same thing and they couldn't do it and almost dropped a the dumbell on their heads. And when it came time for me to front squat, they saw I wasn't lifting baby weights neither. LOL. But asked me why I did I rest long and said I was being lazy. I told them I working on developing my power and not looks. I am training for load and not reps. They said, "ok professor, whatever you doing it seems to work..." Well I hope this helps.

[fa_jing]

Yes, I think that sqautting w/weights would be better overall, I've done it before - but right now I want to increase my tendon strength and endurance more. I want to put my knee problems behind me forever, they're doing pretty good right now but I want to have really strong knees before I go back to the weight room.

[Mr. Bao]

Fa Ging:

I hope you go seek a doctor and get those bum wheels fixed. Best of luck. Cheers.

[fa_jing]

Oh, I've had the knee problem for about 12 years - it is basically a result of my Patellar Tracking Dysfunction - as I bend my knees (which are knock-kneed) the patella jumps the track to the outside - the solution has been to exercise the inner head of the quadricep by doing leg extensions only for the last 30 degrees of the movement. They offered to cut the tendon on the other side to lengthen it, but I didn't want to do all that. After I started the exercises, I never had major problems, but just some minor irritation. I was able to do squats when I was lifting and I completed a ten-mile race. Still there's too much cracking and rubbing going on, so I am concerned over the long term - you won't see me training snap kicks on the wall again like a TKD artist. thus I'm trying to build up the tendon strength as much as possible.