does wong shun leung wc use...

[wingchunalex]

does wong shun leung wc use the pheonix eye fist and/or the normal punch?

[Martial Joe]

And

[Martial Joe]

Well im not sure if he tought it but i noticed in some tapes of him training he used it personaly.

[tparkerkfo]

Couldn't tell you, but in his Science of Infighting video, it is a little hard to tell but it looks like one hand uses the phoenix eye fist and the other doesn't.

I would probably say he JUST punches without too much regard as to the exact punch. It probably just happens.

Tom
________
TEEN HIGHSCHOOL (http://www.****tube.com/categories/1035/highschool/videos/1)

[Grendel]

Originally posted by tparkerkfo
Couldn't tell you, but in his Science of Infighting video, it is a little hard to tell but it looks like one hand uses the phoenix eye fist and the other doesn't.

I would probably say he JUST punches without too much regard as to the exact punch. It probably just happens.

Tom

Hi Tom,

Does your lineage use the Phoenix Eye fist?

Regards,

[S.Teebas]

While we are on the topic of the Phoenix Eye fist I have a question.

Why does almost all WC advocate the force from a punch travels through the bottom three knuckles....if the Phoenix Eyes shape is different in only the top knuckle? i.e., if no force is USUALLY or in theory anyway, supposed to travel through that knuckle, then why alter the structure of that joint in the first place?

Were there two types of punching, one for beginners like we all commonly practice now. And one for advanced where all the force travels totally out the Phoenix eye?
What do you think?

[Mr Punch]

Good question S Teebas.

I wouldn't have thought so. Even to the really well-practised a well-structured phoenix is slower to form than a sun fist or a palm.

I have been taught by one sifu to use a phoenix if punching downwards, esp to the lower ribs, but the palm makes more sense to me. Also for the pressure point under the arm, but the bounce punch from chum kiu or a loose sun seems to get a better chance of getting into that target.

So, basically I don't use it, or even see the need!

Does anyone have any useful comments regarding the history of its use in WC/T?

[yuanfen]

S.Teebas sez:Why does almost all WC advocate the force from a punch travels through the bottom three knuckles....
--------------------------------------------------
Not really- not "all"- depends on which punch, when and how.
In certain angles all four knuckles can get involved....into someone's
solar plexus for instance. Joy
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mat sez:Even to the really well-practised a well-structured phoenix is slower to form than a sun fist or a palm.

((Not really. I am just as fast if not faster with a phoenix eye
of need be))joy

I have been taught by one sifu to use a phoenix if punching downwards, esp to the lower ribs, but the palm makes more sense to me.

((Not limited to just that. The phoenix can rise from the ashes as well- cross cultural metaphor but applicable))joy

Does anyone have any useful comments regarding the history of its use in WC/T?

((IM taught it openly or covertly depending on time and place.
You have his last surviving Foshan student saying that he advocated its usage before he left for HK. The phoenix eye is just an instrument- was around on southern fists- depends on how you play it. No big deal))joy

[yuanfen]

S.Teebas sez:Why does almost all WC advocate the force from a punch travels through the bottom three knuckles....
--------------------------------------------------
Not really- not "all"- depends on which punch, when and how.
In certain angles all four knuckles can get involved....into someone's
solar plexus for instance. Joy
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mat sez:Even to the really well-practised a well-structured phoenix is slower to form than a sun fist or a palm.

((Not really. I am just as fast if not faster with a phoenix eye
if need be))joy

I have been taught by one sifu to use a phoenix if punching downwards, esp to the lower ribs, but the palm makes more sense to me.

((Not limited to just that. The phoenix can rise from the ashes as well- cross cultural metaphor but applicable))joy in phoenix

Does anyone have any useful comments regarding the history of its use in WC/T?

((IM taught it openly or covertly depending on time and place.
You have his last surviving Foshan student saying that he advocated its usage before he left for HK. The phoenix eye is just an instrument- was around in southern fists- depends on how you play it. No big deal. BTW if the delivery system is not developed
well- forget about the phoenix eye))joy

[Grendel]

Originally posted by yuanfen
BTW if the delivery system is not developed well- forget about the phoenix eye))joy

I regard the Phoenix eye fist as like the hood ornament on a Mack truck. When the truck hits you, it doesn't matter.

Regards,

[tparkerkfo]

Hi Grendel

For some reason I thought you might be from my lineage. What lineage are you from?

I honestly don't know if it is done or not. But I can say I have never been taught to use it, nor have I seen any one in my lineage use it. This goes for direct Ken Chung and his students as well as when I was with one of Eddie Chong's students. So, I would beleive that it is not really part of our normal methods. Of course it could be there somewhere. I see nothing wrong with it, though I also don't see much of a benefit either
Tom
________
SUZUKI XL7 SPECIFICATIONS (http://www.suzuki-tech.com/wiki/Suzuki_XL7)

[yuanfen]

Tom- IMO you didnt read Grendel's post carefully. He didnt
advocate dependence on the phoenix eye.
joy

[Grendel]

Originally posted by yuanfen
Tom- IMO you didnt read Grendel's post carefully. He didnt
advocate dependence on the phoenix eye.
joy

Yuanfen is correct. I don't have any particular use for the Phoenix Eye fist except to put a little emphasis on friendly chi sao. A couple of stiff fingers work for that too.

Regards,

[tparkerkfo]

Hi Grendal and Joy,

I read the post carefully, but I admit I could have interpreted it incorrectly. He asked me:

"Tom -Does your lineage use the Phoenix Eye fist?"

So I answered that I have not been taught it nor have I seen any one use it in the two verions of Ken Chung wing chun I have been exposed to. Though I admit I don't know it all by a long shot.

If I misread the question, could some one please elaborate?
________
Black Milf (http://www.****tube.com/categories/303/milf/videos/1)

[Jim Roselando]

Hey all,


The Foo Ngon is part of WC. In Koo Lo village Leung Jan taught the Foo Ngon as well as other fist formations including the most common Sun Punch which is often refered to as the Mai Jee Hong Choi by our clan. I believe, from a discussion with Hendrik once, that the Foo Ngon is even part of Yik Kam's WCK which makes me believe that it is more likely than less likely that the Foo Ngon (since its found in different lineages) was around during the Red Boat period.

While a lot of people may not find much use for the Foo Ngon that does not mean the founders didn't! If it was there then it was there for a reason. Thats my belief.


Greetz,

[t_niehoff]

Hi Jim,

Jim Roselando wrote:

The Foo Ngon is part of WC. JR

I agree. And by WC, I mean the kuen faat, not some particular lineage (one person's approach to teaching the art). TN

While a lot of people may not find much use for the Foo Ngon that does not mean the founders didn't! If it was there then it was there for a reason. JR

Good point. And so it behooves each of us to find that reason. TN

Terence

[yuanfen]

Jim- the phoenix eye is alive and well...rumours of its passing are greatly exaggerated.But gain, but the fist and the delivery are
inter-related. Most beginners will be foolish to try it. Fundamentals first. The exotic later. Without the first-the rest doesnt work.

[cha kuen]

The phoenix eye fist is used for pressure points. It puts all the power and energy of your punch in one point, while a fist would spread the power /impact among 3 knuckles.

If you use the phoenix eye fist for other areas such as the forhead, you will break your finger. It's only used for soft pressure point spots which is why you see southern mantis and other southern styles use them.

[yuanfen]

If you use the phoenix eye fist for other areas such as the forhead, you will break your finger.
-----------------------------------
aint necessarily so- depends on level of development.
joy

[UltimateFighter]

Originally posted by S.Teebas
While we are on the topic of the Phoenix Eye fist I have a question.

Why does almost all WC advocate the force from a punch travels through the bottom three knuckles....if the Phoenix Eyes shape is different in only the top knuckle? i.e., if no force is USUALLY or in theory anyway, supposed to travel through that knuckle, then why alter the structure of that joint in the first place?

Were there two types of punching, one for beginners like we all commonly practice now. And one for advanced where all the force travels totally out the Phoenix eye?
What do you think?

It is a matter of application. Although the vertical fist delivers most power through the bottom 3 knuckes, the Phoenex punch is not necessarily about striking hard, it is about precision. It is taught in aplication for striking soft targets such as the throat. In this case the strength of the punch concentrated on the top knuckle is more than enough to render an effective strike to this target.