Taking someone out from behind

[Kinjit]

1. You want to take down and control the attacker without causing too much damage.

2. You want to take him out as quickly as possible, doing maximum damage (empty handed).

2b. He is holding a weapon.


I know these examples are pretty vague, but I'm thinking in general principles here. What kind of strikes, chokes, techniques etc do you think are effective ?
I'm not a very experienced martial artist myself, but I'd probably go for a sloppy rear naked, pulling off balance with a knee in the back etc...

[dnc101]

You are getting into more of a military/paramilitary, police, security type application here. If you're interested in that sort of thing you canfind books and tapes around. Ask Gene what MAM sells- I know there is a little bit of rear takedown stuff in their Jing Quan Tao tapes. He may be able to direct you to something else as well. If not, try Paladin Press (they're on the web somewhere).

Failing that, contact Jonny and enlist in the Marines :D !

What style of martial art do you study? Don't they teach anything that would work from behind?

[Laughing Cow]

Try to approach it from the other side.

Which are the attacks tht you would feel most uncomfortable to receive in those scenarios.

1.) Eliminate the defences that work for sure.
2.) Eliminate the defences that might work.
and so on.
3.) Invision an attack and see which defenses could be applied etc.

[neptunesfall]

1. rear naked choke

2. hammerfist to the top of the head or where shoulder meets the neck

2b. don't.

[Kinjit]

Laughing Cow; thanks, thats how I try to approach things.

I am definately not thinking military use here, more along the lines of assisting someone else being attacked. Well, a form of bodyguarding I suppose you could call it. I've just started training in a certain style of Kuntao and dabbling in a filipino art, but have not got around to talk to my sifu about this kind of applications.

[Stacey]

I woud pick up both of him legs from behind. As he's falling on his face, he will likely drop the weapon....if not I'll lock him calf from behind and secure the weapon hand (back mount). If its gun and underneith him, just concentrat on keeping it pilled beneath him

then wasting no time, I'd chop the back of his neck to loosten the muscles and pull the had back to paralyze/kill. If that didn't work I'd twist it this way and that before he could yell out.

or just whomp him on the back of the next with my forearm. Then pick twist his head.

If I had a knife or wire....different story.

[Former castleva]

That should be a "zone of safety" so various applications come to play,assuming it is sort of a surprise.

Sidekick to back of knee,can be turned into a nasty combination if wanted.

[Repulsive Monkey]

Hammer or flat hand blow direct onto BaiHui. Works every time. No need for to disarm the opponent if they have their back to you.

[Former castleva]

"Hammer or flat hand blow direct onto BaiHui. Works every time. No need for to disarm the opponent if they have their back to you."

I´m not sure about this one,well let´s say this would not be my first choise.When I consider that it would take great accuracy (besides a few "naturally" fragile places of the skull)
Proper positioning and force and all,I could not trust on that one,not to say you or someone else could not.

Base of skull would be easier and nearly "sure" way to drop the opponent without special concentration if used.

"hammerfist to the top of the head or where shoulder meets the neck"

Where the shoulder meets the neck...Trapezius muscle? With ?suprascapular nerve? lying under it,probably.
If yes,then it would serve as paralyzing opponent´s related arm completely for various seconds (maybe 7) I do not know if this serves in taking the opponent out,besides shocking him a bit and causing pain.
If the blow is very strong,it might cause a knock-out which might serve the purpose.

Just my usual a couple of cents of medical,analytical view.

:p

[jon]

1. You want to take down and control the attacker without causing too much damage.

* Take from the back with a rear naked and then pull the opponent violently backwards and off balance, possibly even litteraly kick his legs out from underhim. Either way i want him off balance so he is unable to retalitate and the more weight he puts into that choke the better for me.

"2. You want to take him out as quickly as possible, doing maximum damage (empty handed). "
* Similar to the first but the intent now is to snap the neck as opposed to simply choking.

"2b. He is holding a weapon."
* Kick very hard strait into the spine in a similar fashion to the way police kick down doors. With a little luck the spasm should cause him to drop his weapon if it doesnt bugger his spine outright. It also puts enough distance between me and him so that i can run.
I would also consider doing this in the no2 question but i regard this as pretty brutal and mean to be honest. I would rather try to choke the guy than snap his neck as well but at least with the tactic ive originaly gone with i have some option. Kicking a man in the back is a darn mean thing to do unless you *really* have to.
You could also consider a striding sidekick but the noise as you move may well give you away and it also requires much more room to use effectively.
It should also be noted the usual reaction to being hit hard from the back is for the head to fly backwards which if you have to (and your reactions are fast) can then be used to even further effect, still ill leave that up to the imagination, this thread is disturbing enough as it is.

[SanSoo Student]

Speaking of taking someone out from behind, if the person comes up to speak or touch/assualt, you could pivot so you face the person and then it becomes a 1-1 head to head confrontation. I usually would first emphasis striking the neck. The neck is a great place to strike because it will temporarily stun the person, or kill them: depending on the force of you punch. If the attack is taller than you, I would aim for the solar plexis, or groin, both areas offer a window to temporarily stun the opponent. If you have stunned the opponent, then you just run. Taking him/her down will result in more complications which can lead to error.

Stun the opponent if you just want to get away. If you want to attack him, then just keep hitting him in vital areas when he is stunned from the initial strike. If the person has a weapon, it depends what kind of weapon, if it is a knife, then when u are pivoting you should go to the opposite of the person; it depending which hand he is holding the knife in. Then strike him in the throat or eyes, because a person with a weapon should be neutralized quickly. If the person has a gun, I would just comply, because if you had a gun behind your back: any sudden movement could throw off that trigger.