View Full Version : Pak Mei/Wing Chun

08-08-2000, 10:43 PM

[This message has been edited by LION (edited 08-16-2000).]

08-09-2000, 01:56 AM
"Bak Mei" comes from Cheung Lai-Chuen and is 3 to 1 Lung Ying Dragon system. Ng Mui was the teacher of the creator of "Wing Chun Kuen". She didn't develop it herself. The White Eyebrow monk and Ng Mui perhaps knew one another, but since she is credited with the dragon system in some accounts, they were posthumously "married" in the 40's.
Comparisons of Bak Mei with Fukien Bak Hok, Lung Ying, Jook Lum, Bak Fu Pai, et al make sense, but not so much Wing Chun, ESPECIALLY "modern" WC.

08-09-2000, 02:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MoQ:
they were posthumously "married" in the 40's.[/quote]

O.K. I'm having one of my sick moment, but how do they get posthumously married. And please tell me the marriage wasn't posthumously consummated.

But seriously, you made referrence to a difference between Wing Chun and "modern" Wing Chun. What do you see as the difference. And what has changed it?

08-09-2000, 04:24 AM
Maybe they weren't "married" but they DID have a baby together... /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
(if the story about Ng Mui and Lung Ying are true...probably not)

By "modern" I mean changed to suit modern times, adapted(to the way westerners move/like to move even), modified, etc.
Bak Mei is at least built to resemble and/or homage the Ngormei "old style", learned from a mysterious Kwong Wai monk. Kind of reverse modification...which is certainly much more interesting.

09-27-2000, 12:55 AM
do you know any hak-ka history at all?
another idiot!!! Ng Mui is a NUN.Pak mei is a toaist monk.They never got on thru time itself.
anyway thats all, not staying

09-27-2000, 01:29 PM
wing chun has no relation to ng mui the nun.
there is a pak mei practioner on the web that mixes pak mei and wing chun. his pak mei postures are terrible,he should stick to wing chun.

09-27-2000, 05:11 PM
...I was just, what we call, "kidding" about any carnal union between these two, but since there is a story about Ng Mui founding the Dragon system, I was referring to them being combined in the 40's to create a "baby" CLC's Bak Mei, but if you gotta explain it...*yawn*

Frankly, anyone who thinks they are combining Wing Chun and Bak Mei is an IDIOT in the classic Hakka sense of the word.
BTW, none of these styles are intrinsicly "hakka" so no one need get a big head, or at least be grateful that anyone gives a hoot nowadays...

09-28-2000, 02:26 AM
Hi MoQ
Are you Hakka by any chance?
I ask this because any thread on the subject YOU rear your UGLY head.What style do you do?
It certainly isn't Pak Mei.
Five yards out five yards in. If you don't understand this then ask a Pak Mei practitioner!!!
Don't talk about things that you have no experience in. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

wisdom mind
09-28-2000, 04:14 PM
with the insults, lets try to further understanding, rather than degrade persons whom we do not know

09-28-2000, 04:25 PM
Wisdom Mind,

You live up to your name /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I think sometimes people take a little too personally what is being bantered back and forth on this forum, I myself am guilty of this. But insults and threats have no place. This forum should be a give and take type of dynamic, but it appears someone doesn't want to give, only take what they can and insult whom they don't like.

wisdom mind
09-28-2000, 06:15 PM
I fly off the handle too sometimez, but im workin on spreading understanding over arguing over typed words...

flames are for hand rolled cigarz and for babylon men

09-28-2000, 06:19 PM
fierce tiger- registered 9/18, no info
sui-fuw- registered 9/18, no info
CLOUD 1- registered 9/14, no info

This is such a strange coincidence... obviously, y'all are from the same place, practicing your "real Pak Mei"... The problem is, it just seems to make you rude and arrogant, cuz you haven't been anything else.

Sadly, someone thinks that Bak Mei is "hakka"...

wisdom mind
09-28-2000, 06:47 PM

I was thinking the same thing, you know from the other thread that got ill....i would like to know who uses more than one handle, i did and stopped, but i made it clear that i was the same as the different handle...

fierce tiger did state earlier that he is a single user, i would like to believe this in an effort to further understanding over bs....

whattabout mr cloud...who you be? what ya study? what do you like about martial arts training?

sui-fuw what about you...what does your handle connotate to you personally, or does it...what do you practice? what are you interests?

for example: I enjoy innovating breakdancing with martial arts and producing electronic musicians

dont bogart

[This message was edited by wisdom mind on 09-29-00 at 11:54 AM.]

09-28-2000, 11:27 PM
moq- i'll stop teasing you!!
i like winding you up because you react so well. but you have to stop being rude to others and you dont know it all. try reading instead of judging peoples coments and ideas.

yes i am a single user...i do not use other names and i dont know who the others are. beleive it or not.


09-29-2000, 12:59 AM
Lighten up man,
you still haven't recovered from the other thread about Hakka Pak Mei.

you must lose sleep if it bugs to not know any information about a few of us.

you are not entitled to know anything unless we want you to know

if you think we are the same, think it , but as fierce tiger stated we are only single users with similar opinions and information.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> [/quote]By "modern" I mean changed to suit modern times, adapted(to the way westerners move/like to move even), modified, etc.
Bak Mei is at least built to resemble and/or homage the Ngormei "old style", learned from a mysterious Kwong Wai monk. Kind of reverse modification...which is certainly much more interesting.

you are a piece of work, here you are bagging out a system you know little about. but hey your bak mei, so your the best. BullS!!!

your bak mei is terrible, i have seen some practictioners from the U.S and they don't have the body, postures etc. Your system is westernised pal. so get real! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Learn not to critisize other systems when yours isn't perfect..

09-29-2000, 02:34 AM
Yeah, I feel silly cuz y'all are such morons, but... the quote is in reference to the comparison of Wing Chun and Bak Mei, which may compare with the other styles mentioned, but not too well Wing Chun. If you want to argue, go ahead. I want to know who called up this old thread just to make the bold statement that Ng Mui was a NUN... *yawn*

Frankly no one cares who you are or what you think you practice, just drop the smear campaign, obviously just trying to stir up trouble.

Since the Bak Mei people are GONE, I'll back off. It's not my style and I only care on principle.

You goons are WRONG in the way you're acting. You are a DISGRACE ... /infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

09-29-2000, 02:48 AM
i was insulted first by wis-mind,and i didn't take offence.i was insulted by moq and didn't take offence.so whats up boys ,its a bit of fun,just like moq.when f.tiger wrote, you all jumped down his neck(about clc).now how many times
have you picked on new members,sooner or later it will come back to you,like it has done now.

1.i did not agree 100% WITH F.T.I said maybe
2.did not have narrow mind to what f.t.wrote
3.did not dis clc
4.asked f.t a question,he did not want to answer.

i am amere begginer,and what i see of you guys is that if i am not with you ,i am against you.
thats not true i try to have an opened mind,
i would like to get along,but ibelieve you won't
accept who i am (a nobody)

sorry,also cannot disclose any information,as yet.due to you not realy wanting to know,but.as me for prey.

09-29-2000, 02:49 AM
Dear Moq,
I apologise if you take what I say to heart. I'm only jesting, but with all the banter that goes on you must admit it's been a good laugh! The poem was made up from me(five yards).
To really understand this you have to feel it rather than been told it. I could try to explain but I'm forbidden to so sorry.
I answered this thread to shead some light on the philosophy of Hakka Fist whether it be Lung Ying, Pak Mei, Wing Chun, Mantis and any other derivetives.
To Wisdom Mind,
You have been practising Pak Mei for one to two years I would say. Please correct me if I am wrong. Your Sifu should know what is meant by this poem. Have you asked him?
Truly to understand this concept of ''five yards''would help your kung fu grow leaps and bounds. I say this from the heart and not from the ego.

09-29-2000, 03:07 AM
so cloud
do you think you can teach these guys over the net?be careful most important your lineage,because if you are hak-ka p.m you can't prove to them,they believe in certificates and documents,not from feeling of their soul,they may have you for brekkies.
by the way guys if you're reading this,no idon't know cloud and iam not pak-mei pai,but i am hak-ka.

09-29-2000, 03:15 AM
Thanks for your concern.
If you have read the thread on 'Hakka Fist' I understand where your coming from.
I think you try and play down the knowledge you know which i admire. You must have studied M.A for a long time, are you over fifty?
Your posting name is quite unusual. Have you any connection to Fierce Tiger or Big Bear. I ask this because you all write in the same way?

09-29-2000, 11:04 AM
I have read your post and your quite right, certificates and gradings are fine, but what comes from the soul is what is important. Eg: you may well know how to defend yourself from lets say 4 attackers, but if that situation occurs you have to be level headed and let your defence come from the soul, you may have hundreds of certs, but if you don't focus straightaway and panic then you've bitten the biscuit as it were. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

09-30-2000, 02:15 AM
to cloud
my name is unusual you say,what of yours?
i did not choose this name,it was given in humour from my older brother.i won't tell you what it means as i feel you've already worked it out(by annalizing it)am i over 50? sorry,but no.like i've
stated i'm a mere begginer.

what connection do i have with b.bear and f.tiger
as we write the same you asked?
well i'm not as fierce as f.tiger
not as powerful as b.bear
so it must be we're hak-ka and to lazy to use the caps button.what i mean is idon't find the need to be fancy.you can mark me,judge me,its o.k.

p.s. don't think i'm not careful of you guys either
as your all smarter than i am..

09-30-2000, 04:00 AM
to viper
why are they fine(certs and gradings)?
nature way is the true way.....

09-30-2000, 09:30 AM
sui few- really im not that fierce.
just like the name.

i've been doing martial arts for over 20 years. 16 years pak mei and hakka related. i've been teaching for the last 8 years. i've found that teaching and having a grading sylibus is good for beginner student as they need motivation and direction. for the senior students they dont care anymore. there are san sou, conditioning & sensitivity drills for each level - a student knows that they have to pass a certain grade before they can move onto the higher stuff.
some students are not as into the tradition hard training as others, and half of them wouldnt have made it if i trained them the way i was trained. but it still comes down to how much effort the student puts in.

09-30-2000, 03:02 PM
where i come from there is only 1 student to
1 teacher,the teacher must first learn to let go of the 1st before taking on another student.i'm not saying this is the best way ,but,this does not
cause as much problems as the other ways.

o.k,we play "lap sau" to further,as aposed to gradings,go for long walks barefooted and meditate
late in the evening(wiching hour,the west call it)

how do you know 100% your student is ready for his next grade?
we don't,its an on going part of life as we grow.when student can fly teacher must let go.
student cannot return to train but only to play
and talk.SAN-SAU IS WHEN YOU CAN FLY and only student know this,believe me for its true as nature intended?

sorry for waffling hoped i didn't bore you??

10-02-2000, 02:20 AM
sui fuw,
thanks for your post, but i have to disagree that the student knows best. the reason for this, where i come from you never tell your sifu that you are ready for the next form (etc), a sifu tells a student and assesses him, then teaches him what he thinks he is ready for. of course we cannot know 100% that the student is ready, but i know my students well enough to be pretty sure. for a student to be good at kung fu you have to have a kung fu brother, what i mean is there is never ONE good kung fu man, there has to be two. it is always better to experience different body types, strengths, weaknesses etc. no disrespect to your way, this is just how i feel.

10-02-2000, 03:14 AM
Hi Ya,
You post really worthy replies.
What you said earlier, it seems that you have some experience in teaching. I know you say you are a beginner. A beginner to what? A beginner to the end?
It seems there are no more traditional teachings anymore(Father to son) I wonder if this is your relationship?

10-03-2000, 02:20 AM
this is what i mean by careful,iknow you to are very able,and probably end up arguing on this forum.
f.t naturally learning is the only way for me,and selected few.no-one dictates to go on to next grade,as there are no grades no money just,learn.no start no finish.

cloud 1
what can i say?why are you so intrested in me?how can my posts be worthy.is this a worthy place to be?or is it sad?or is it fun?
i think you've worked out there is no beginging and ending in gung-fu.
****her and son,why not mother and son?