Current issue with Leung Ting

[scuba steve]

Looks like Kung Fu Magazine has a looser restriction on comments about others in Wing Chun. Not sure how many of you noted that Leung Ting spends most of the time in the article clowning on a certain former WT organization instructor.

Each of the photos he shows someone doing something "wrong" are exactly the same poses and techniques a certain VERY well known former 6th level guy with his own organization does. In fact you don't have to look hard in the magazine to see advertisements featuring that very same instructor doing the techniques that Leung Ting says are WRONG.

Funny how someone can be doing things "wrong in WT" once they leave the organization whereas before they were just fine when they did joint photo shoots before.:rolleyes:

Rather...ironic. Yeah that's the ticket.

So..as this is something actually IN the magazine is this not fair game for conversation on this forum? Anyone else have the same reaction?

[edward]

it makes him look stupid.. he's the one who taught him..

[anerlich]

Is the article online?

Taking the post at face value, that is unfortunate but Leung Ting is hardly Robinson Crusoe in this regard.

I can remember several times when students who were formerly the golden-haired boys of their Sifu's organisation left for various reasons, after which their Sifu has said "he didn't learn the secret techniques", or "he wasn't that good a student", etc. when prior to this they were the New Messiah.

Always a bad idea. How does this make those remaining in the Sifu's org feel? Do they think, "is he holding the good stuff back from me too?" or "Is he telling me the truth about MY progress in the art?"

The stuff of great magazine copy but of basic poor professional conduct.

[yuanfen]

The article and others like it has more to do with marketing and money than wing chun. Its a play for more students to shore up a split organization. So "buyer beware" which is a good caveat in searching for wing chun- applies here too..

Kung Fu magazines(all of them IKF, KF, BB etc) are not scholarly journals and are advertisement and sales driven- understandably. Folks take them or other mass media including TV far too seriously .

[datou]

Actually, that is not true that Leung Ting is "clowning" an ex instructor. In fact, the article itself only has one line that that directly mentions that former ex-headman of the organization.

If you are referring to the "wrong elbow application" and the picture of the Mr. Ex doing the same elbow in his own ad, then I think you need to reread the article. The article says that there is nothing wrong with the elbow strike itself - meaning that the picture of Mr. Ex doing the elbow is not wrong. It is only the entry into the technique (i.e. throwing an elbow at punching range) that is wrong. Since Mr. Ex's picture only shows the elbow and not the entry into, then how can this explanation be clowning on Mr. Ex.

I think you need to stop looking for things just to drudge up bad feelings. Take the article for what it is - advertising.

[rubthebuddha]

spend some time learning why certain things were deemed wrong, and you'll understand the justification.

emin had several applications of techniques that leung ting never taught him. leung ting never liked these applications, and has spent considerable time during his visits to the US rooting these things out. he doesn't say the techniques were wrong. a jut sau is a jut sau, tan sau is a tan sau. how they are used and in what situations is what leung ting was talking about, and he was correcting the concepts.

think about it philosophically -- every sifu has his own interpretation of how the art should be. if this is in doubt, you need to read some of the cheap threads that say who's wing chun is better among yip man's students. regardless, emin, as headman of the awto, has his own interpretations of the techniques and their application.

no matter how much time you study with a person, there will always be deviation. leung ting knows more wing tsun than emin, so when emin claims to be teaching the same wing tsun he learned, and this deviates from what leung ting says is wing tsun, then leung ting is justified in saying that something is wrong. not crap, not garbage. just wrong. and if emin learned the wrong thing from his own sifu or sihing, oh well. it's still wrong. just because my math instructor tells me 2+2 = 5 doesn't mean the math is right.

leung ting isn't saying emin is crap. anyone who's ever seen emin work knows otherwise -- emin has skills up the wazoo. but emin's interpretations deviates from the wing tsun that leung ting teaches, so, by leung ting's wing tsun standards, emin's stuff is wrong. not bad, not crappy, just not in alignment with what leung ting wants.

and as joy points out, the article itself is a bit marketing driven. but that's the norm. i haven't read an interview with anyone in a long time that was entirely altruistic. you'd be hard-pressed to find one.

so read the article again, and if you want the real meaning, look deeper than just the surface. leung ting isn't out for vengeance against emin. he'd rather the whole issue go away. if i can base a judgment on emin from what i know about him, i think he'd rather the whole issue go away, too. i'd say both guys would rather just train their stuff the way they know it and leave it at that.

[rogue]

Outside of Leung Ting s silly faces I thought it was pretty good. I'm not even a WC guy and I thought his advice was good.

[yuanfen]

rub the buddha sez:i'd say both guys would rather just train their stuff the way they know it and leave it at that.
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Best course for all concerned.
joy

[UltimateFighter]

Bear in mind that Boztepe learned most of his Wing Tsun from this man:

http://http://www.ewtosanmarino.com/WT_file/gal-k5.htm

Kernspechts own interpretation of the art is as different from Leung Tings as you could get, lots of grappling and soft control techniques. So I highly doubt that Leung Ting would be fussy about what Boztepe does.

[kj]

Originally posted by UltimateFighter
Kernspechts own interpretation of the art is as different from Leung Tings as you could get, lots of grappling and soft control techniques. So I highly doubt that Leung Ting would be fussy about what Boztepe does.

Ah, thank you UF. This can explain a lot.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[yuanfen]

If so UF, in your own opinion what makes Kernspecht's art wing chun? Your call.

BTW, I am not baiting you- I generally have the same question in mind about many things including HFY- what makes something wing chun? At what point does something cease to be wing chun even though it might use the name?

I am NOT debating definitions at this point- but trying to understand perspectives.

joy chaudhuri

[UltimateFighter]

Going by the definition of various 'Masters' of several lineages:

Master Chow Tze Cheun:

" Wing Chun is not a style, it is a system of core movements."

Emin Boztepe
"Wing Chun is not a style, it is a set of concepts. Wing Chun is how to use your limbs according to the physics of nature."

Many who see Kernspecht conclude that he does not appear to be doing Wing Tsun. It is Wing Tsun, but it is the theories and soft control and sensitvity of Wing Tsun applied in practice. Whether it 'looks' like stereotypical Wing Chun is irrelevent. I can tell you first hand that he is awesome . It demonstrates how wing chun is more than a style or art it is concepts that can be applied to many forms of fighting.

[jonp]

UF - "It demonstrates how wing chun is more than a style or art it is concepts that can be applied to many forms of fighting."

i think this is kind of true but more that its up to the individual to develop their WCK into what suits them best which to me is the beauty of it - tho i believe there are examples of people using WCK concepts in other styles to achieve greater success.

in kernschpects book 'on single combat' a WT practitioner used the concepts to aid him in boxing matches - tho it didnt say at what level these matches were...

peace

[AndrewS]

Leung Ting succeeds only in discrediting himself with this ridiculous campaign against sifu Emin. For all people may attempt to rationalize this as technical discussion, this is merely political attack in the form of technical discussion.

Andrew

[rubthebuddha]

AndrewS,

a bit, yes. i was a bit turned off by a few parts of the article, although i liked it in general. all of the information was technical, but the intent wasn't entirely educational.

sadly, it's been 1½ years since the split, and both sides are still flinging ****. more disappointing is that students of each side do it, too, and i see more **** flung by students than i do leung or boztepe. smear campaigns are only useful so long -- at this point in the game, both sides should give it up and talk about other stuff -- like PWEI. ;)

dos dedos, mis amigos. :)

[AndrewS]

Rub,

yeah, I'm trying to just walk away from this whole silliness. Train, engage in civilized exchange of technical knowlege, play, work rough, and anyone who gets froggy, knock senseless.

Screw politics.


Andrew

[UltimateFighter]

Where is this article?

Leung Ting has unfortunately been dragged into petty politics before, but Boztepe is one of the most arrogent individuals I have ever known of, it comes through just about all of his interviews (In one interview he even compared himself to Muhammad Ali) - so for him to be put in his place if he is emphasising wrong technique is certainly a good thing.

[rubthebuddha]

UF,

you're a bit blind. leung ting has dragged himself into the fray several times before, so he's not an innocent. he's my sigung and i'm very happy with that and i like him as a person as well (met with him over sushi with my instructor for a few hours last year -- incredibly nice man), but he's not flawless, and neither is emin. that's not important.

give it up -- such narrow attitudes are what keep problems like this going. spend the time you take to denounce someone on training instead. you will appreciate it, your fellow students will, and so will the patrons of this forum. and anyone who then argues with you won't appreciate the additional practice, which is one of the main points of training anyway.

[yuanfen]

I revisited the Leung Ting interview in KF. It is basically marketing.
In some ways a standard format- someone pays for lots of advertisement in a mag and gets interviewed or articles.
I found part of it somewhat patronising and of course self serving.

Speaking of Ip man:
""But since I went to learn kung fu from him,he was just out of the hospital. he was weak and he was already 72 years old.
How can he show me something? So sometimes I made my arm so soft."
Judge for yourself.
joy

[cha kuen]

Let's not talk about politics anymore

**wing chun books** (http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=taichimaster06&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=25)

[Grendel]

Originally posted by cha kuen
Let's not talk about politics anymore

**wing chun books** (http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=taichimaster06&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=25)

Can we talk about ethics? :p

[diego]

Originally posted by yuanfen
Speaking of Ip man:
""But since I went to learn kung fu from him,he was just out of the hospital. he was weak and he was already 72 years old.
How can he show me something? So sometimes I made my arm so soft."
Judge for yourself.
joy

Been waiting for someone to mention this part of the article on this forum for a good month now!.:eek:

[Rolling_Hand]

Yuanfen wrote:

I revisited the Leung Ting interview in KF. It is basically marketing.
In some ways a standard format- someone pays for lots of advertisement in a mag and gets interviewed or articles.
I found part of it somewhat patronising and of course self serving.

----------------------------------------------------------

Yuenfen,

How about Augustine Fong and his wing chun videos?

Laugh at yourself first, before anyone else can.

[byond1]

what i find interesting is that he suggests using the neutral ygkym...never lead with a front stance......well i have an ikf article with leung ting and boztepi from about 4 years ago that talks about leung ting modernizing wc....in a photo demo leung ting leads with a left front stance....just what he says is incorrect in the latest article......oooops
yes i agree that leung ting is a money maker but like williiam cheung has helped the spread of wc(?modified wc??) ...and leung ting does admit what he is doing is his own wc....which at least he is honest about that if nothing else..lol...

[diego]

Originally posted by byond1
what i find interesting is that he suggests using the neutral ygkym...never lead with a front stance......well i have an ikf article with leung ting and boztepi from about 4 years ago that talks about leung ting modernizing wc....in a photo demo leung ting leads with a left front stance...


Maybe he found a copy of David Peterson's Wong Shun Lueng: Doing it the Wong way or something like that...wich Mr.Peterson if i recall correct mentions to not lead with the lead!...?

:)

[cobra]

Good article!!

[KenWingJitsu]

"Whether it 'looks' like stereotypical Wing Chun is irrelevent. I can tell you first hand that he is awesome . It demonstrates how wing chun is more than a style or art it is concepts that can be applied to many forms of fighting."
That is one of the best posts ever on this forum...

But saying "so for him to be put in his place if he is emphasising wrong technique is certainly a good thing." ...well I guess you're not up on what's been going on or whatever. Wehen Emin was under Ting, He was Ting's brightest best, "most technical" student etc etc blah blah blah. Now they split, he 'sucks'. If you can't see hypocrisy there (especially since HE TAUGHT HIM), then well I don't know what to say.