Has anyone ever seen Sifu Tai Yim do Kung Fu?

[YoungHungFut]

If you have, what did you think? I mean did you ever see him do something amazing?

[MightyB]

I could be wrong about this, but I believe that Sifu Tai Yim did a one handed form at one of Lily Lau's tournaments a few years back. If that was him, it was pretty cool. I think that this might be the tape from that event:

Eagle Cup Master's Demo (http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/tc-ca001.html)

[YoungHungFut]

That sounds right. The Hung Fut System has a one handed form, though I have yet to see it.

I heard that Tai Yim can strike a person in certain places on the body and temporarily paralize. Arms, legs etc... I was curious if anyone has ever seen him do a demonstration of such incredible techniques? Or seen him demonstrate his expertise in ANY way.

Thanks:)

[GeneChing]

He demo'ed his one handed form at our benefit gala. (http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/dvdca108.html) It's a very cool form - I'd love to learn it someday.

He also did some Ditda on an injury of mine several months ago - I get a lot of Ditda as a side perk of the job, some good, some great, some downright crappy. I'd rate Tai Yim's Ditda very highly - one of the better treatments I've had.

[GLW]

If you look back at the Kung Fu magazine...unfortunatley BEFORE Gigi and company took it over... There was an issue with Tai Yim on the cover. He was doing a sidekick with a broadsword.

That photo was taken at one of the national competitions early on in Houston. Along with another photographer, I did the photo.
(which is why I said that it was unfortunate about Gigi and company NOT having the magazine then...that publisher did NOT give a byline for the photo and before we could write to complain, he sold the magazine to the current owners...and we felt it was unfair to hassle the current owner over a mistake of the previous ones....)

When we did that photo, we talked about how to do the posing and adjusted the angles. When we did the shot, it was one take, he stood there and shot the kick out - VERY fast - with the broadsword strike - equally fast...and held both perfectly. Even though we got the shot at the exact time, he held it in such a way that we could have been late and still gotten the shot...

Fast and total control...

[GeneChing]

You took that pic? That's a good one. Unfortunately that back issue is not available anymore. Here's that cover story. (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=174) Note: we are doing some rennovation on the site so GLW's Tai Yim cover pic might or might not appear.

Tai Yim has skills, definately. He was alos on the cover of our winter 94 issue (http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/kf-204.html) with Anthony Goh :eek: . This was Gigi's dreaded "lobster" issue - something happend in the printing process and the cover turned out horribly red.

[GLW]

Gene,

along with another photographer, Jacques Cazier... Jacques really didn't know martial arts.

I set up the angle, the pose, the framing. We had a small portable studio back drop in the Wyndham hotel in Houston. We both set up the lights. After getting everything right, I orchestrated and Jacques clicked.

We were doing a bunch of shots of people for possible use in things like the evet programs, ads, and magazines. Roger Hagood had expressed interest in using the photos as well as John Painter for his Internal Arts magazine.

We shot Tai Yim, Brendan Lai, Grace Wu-Monnat, and a few others. We had some other really fine shots but they were all on slide film that the lab ruined....talk about being annoyed.

Anyway, to say thank you to the different masters, we gave them several prints from the shoot.

This is where I think the shot came from... Tai Yim liked that shot and it was one we gave him several 8 x10's and such of. I think what Hagood did was set up an issue with an article on Tai Yim. He then didn't have a photo and asked Tai Yim if he did. Tai Yim then gave him the print. All very innocent...but in the end, it was the BEST cover that Hagood's group had ever done (of course, I AM a bit biased)...but we didn't get the byline....and that was all we really wanted anyway..no money...just a not saying Photo by....

If it ends up on the web site...let me know... To be honest with you, I don't even know if Jacques or I have the original slide anymore. Jacques moved and I lost touch and I had a mishap where I lost a lot of my old portfolio items...

Byt the way, since TC Media (Gigi and compnay) have taken over, the professionalism and quality of the magazine has improved. The cover work especially.

[ShaolinTiger00]

I've seen many of his students take a thrashing on the leitai.

If he could actually fight, you'd think he'd be able to transfer some knowledge to his students.. But he does have pretty forms


Just an observation. :D

[GeneChing]

I'd have to agree with you on the Hagood covers (and our covers too - thanks for your kind words!) Yours was a great shot - one of the best in the early years.

We do post all of the old covers in the magazine section (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/index.php) of our site, but right now we are doing some reconstruction so its appearence is intermitant.

[No_Know]

I just like the second opinion better than your potential implication at the first. -ish

Shaolintiger00, not every observation need be mentioned. The observations which are mentioned tend to have Intent, regardless of the awareness of that intent to the speaker.~

Students, that indicates learning. Winning is for games. Taking meaning or understanding from loss (yours or anothers) is for living.

Having a high win count does not make me a good Kung-Fu person. Learning from the mistakes by me and by others and improving my understanding of this ceilingless World of Kung-Fu gets me closer to descent Kung-Fu. Perhaps, great skill within the vastness that is Kung-Fu can only be approached, not necessarily fully attained.

When you've put-in his years and accomplishments at the ages he did and does. Then you might be worthy of Thinking of voicing such choice observation as you did. Hopefully, His students can learn from their losses or mistakes. Watching them in the years to come might better convey their learning.

You posted two opinions and One observation...Not Just an observation.

[YoungHungFut]

Thanks everyone, this has been very informative. I would like to ask everyone how effective they feel the Hung Fut forms are in developing techniques that can be used in a fight...opinions? :)

[lkfmdc]

Can Tai Yim Sifu fight? Yes, he can. And did in Hong Kong

Can his students fight? No, most can not. And the few I know who could had trained in other things (like boxing)

It is a direct result of how his school is run, many form classes and only a very few "fighting" classes which you have to be "invited" to join, and which are so basic....

No offense to Sifu Yim, just stating the facts and defending Shaolin's obesrvation

[YoungHungFut]

But it has been my understanding that the secrets to good fighting are held within the forms. If his forms are good then a true student of his forms should be a good fighter...no? :confused:

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by YoungHungFut
But it has been my understanding that the secrets to good fighting are held within the forms. If his forms are good then a true student of his forms should be a good fighter...no? :confused:

The secrets to good technique are held within the forms. By practicing the forms, you can improve your ability to perform a structurally correct punch, kick, or other technique.

Forms cannot teach you the timing, flow, and energy required to actually fight. Having a structurally perfect punch is useless without being able to make it connect with your opponent. You cannot learn that without sparring; you can't learn to apply techniques against a resisting opponent without practicing on a resisting opponent.

Forms and drills are the an excellent way to perfect technique, but they are only half the picture. Just as you cannot work on fine points of technique in the chaotic environment of sparring, you cannot work on the dynamic and flow of actually connecting with your opponent by doing forms.

[YoungHungFut]

That DOES make sense, but on a personal level I may disagree a bit with what you are saying. I have only practiced forms, not sparring (though I HAVE been in many fights over the course of my lifetime). And I have practiced forms, (with knowledge and understanding of their applications) quite religiously. To the point where I truly feel the forms and techniques have become part of me, such that my movements are so grooved that in reaction to situations my movements are instinctual. Any thoughts?

[GeneChing]

The good thing about forms is you don't get kicked in the head very often. The bad thing about forms is you don't get kicked in the head very often.

I've had a lot of blows to the head so I like to focus on the positive aspects of forms.

FWIW, I really admire that left-handed form of Tai Yim. It's a great concept and I'd probably gain a lot if I studied it.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by YoungHungFut
That DOES make sense, but on a personal level I may disagree a bit with what you are saying. I have only practiced forms, not sparring (though I HAVE been in many fights over the course of my lifetime). And I have practiced forms, (with knowledge and understanding of their applications) quite religiously. To the point where I truly feel the forms and techniques have become part of me, such that my movements are so grooved that in reaction to situations my movements are instinctual. Any thoughts?

In response to your decision "I will punch", you may well instinctually perform a punch with perfect form. Forms will train you to instinctively punch with good form. Forms will not train you to instinctively flow with the energy of your opponent, feint, misdirect, react correctly from a strike that hits a solid object, react correctly from being struck, read an opponent's energy from contact or vision, or maintain balance against an opposing force.

Once again... a perfect punch that does not hit its target is useless. A punch that hits its target but has technique so faulty that it hurts your wrist worse than your opponent is useless. Proper training should incorporate both drills/forms and free sparring.

[brothernumber9]

you study from Sifu Jai or Sifu Mann? I study from Sifu Yim. I would be biased in my opinions of my Sifu so theres no point in my touting him. Hungfut is fairly scarce so it is cool that you have come across some. If you are not too far from Maryland/DC you should come by the school and visit. Hope you find what you are looking for

As for fighting, some people might think we have good fighters others do think that we don't. We have some men and women that do well and have won championships including nationals and worlds (kUOSHU, WKF, NACMAF, BANDO, SE ASIA FULL CONTACT) and some who struggle to do well (like myself). but it seems every school has someone who won some championship or other so it can be construed somewhat subjectively.

Anyway to all others who train in Hungfut, keep training and promoting such a great and treasure filled system.

[NorthernMantis]

Like fd said it's only half the picture you can't have one without the other... well you can but it will be harder..for me anyways.

[No_Know]

"The secrets to good technique are held within the forms. By practicing the forms, you can improve your ability to perform a structurally correct punch, kick, or other technique."

I don't think so-ish. Perfect technique can only be found in the moment. Form guides one. While there are other factors, knowing what the gist should be like might be helpful.

"Forms cannot teach you the timing, flow, and energy required to actually fight."

Since with forms one can imagine Any opponent of Every Skill, timing can be learned with forms. Also, flow and energy required. Practice must be done to learn compensation and regulation of the flow and energy of opponents.

"Having a structurally perfect punch is useless without being able to make it connect with your opponent."

If it cannot connect how do you consider it a perfect punch since part of a punch is landing, as that is the reason for punching.

" You cannot learn that without sparring; you can't learn to apply techniques against a resisting opponent without practicing on a resisting opponent."

So (needle and thread), when one does forms the opponent (although imagined, always present; We are limited only by our imaginations~"To die in your dreams is to die in the waking worlld"~) should be strong, fast and smart.

"Forms will not train you to instinctively flow with the energy of your opponent, feint, misdirect, react correctly from a strike that hits a solid object, "

However instinct will, after you train well enough with your forms.

"react correctly from being struck, "

There Is actually that, designed into at least some techniques--reacting to the standard knee-jerk reaction from certain attacks.

"read an opponent's energy from contact or vision,"

That's why we watch fellow students and anything and build a database of how things tend to work and how people tend to act.

" or maintain balance against an opposing force."

This is incorporated into the forms after experience and database starts, relevant (ride a subway car in transit; try to stand in an earthquake; accidentally get bumped; get-up off of the floor; get- up off of a sofa or out of a chair...these things help form the database).


We are told there are two sides. We choose sides. A coin has three sides. I make my own money? The U.S. Treasury department does that. I have my own apartment have a vehicle and have a well paying job. I am independant? I receive a paycheck (dependant). My car (the bank owns) requires gasoline--dependant. I produce my own food? I rely on others to feed me or get fed--dependant.

You don't understand Form as I do. That's the only truth with this. Few ways or one way, if any way is complete. It is likely a blend to be complete.

I comprehend. And that coupled with Forms helps me be better than if I did not have Forms.

Theoretically, perhaps, some might say