View Full Version : Frank Yee's dit da jow: Is it any good?

08-13-2000, 11:45 PM
I have read that frank Yee has shared his own personal dit da jow formula on his hung gar tapes that he made with ESPY-tv. Is it good for iron palm, breaking boards, hitting and kicking bags, and wooden dummy training? I know that Frank Yee is supposed to be a well-respected sifu.

08-14-2000, 12:31 AM
Which formula are you refering to?

The dit da jow formula is meant for treating bruises and not be used on open wounds.
There is a cooking medicine formula for the iron palm which is different from the dit da jow formula and the preparation is different.
Please be advise that without proper personal instruction from a sifu, one should not do all those training by him or herself.
Having the formulas is fine, but nothing beat a close eye by a sifu just incase something goes wrong.


08-14-2000, 12:42 AM
I do not intend to do any iron palm training until I find a sifu, but I do not think that it is a good idea to trust any iron palm liniment, as I have read that there are many frauds on the market. Could you plese recommend an iron palm liniment that would be good for iron palm, breaking boards, and wooden dummy training?

Wah Ren Jie
08-14-2000, 01:28 AM
In regards to your question. Sifu Frank Yee is a very reputable master. He is also a certified chinese herbalist. Your best bet though is to get your linament through the sifu you intend to study under. Everyone's methods are somewhat different and everyone's reactions to certain herbs are different. It's better to have someone who can what your reactions and who knows what the appropriate reactions are, administer your linaments. Good Luck!!

08-15-2000, 12:23 AM
But how can you know for sure that the liniment your sifu uses really works? i would rather have one that has been proven to work for sure.

08-15-2000, 02:46 AM
Why are you getting ready to practice iron palm with a sifu you don't trust?

08-15-2000, 02:52 AM
touche' qy!!!! If you are worried about a jow just make sure you get it from a noted iron palm teacher or TCM specialist.

Peace /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

08-15-2000, 07:07 AM
Unless of course, you have a SIFU. Then you ask them. If you don't have a SIFU that teaches YOU iron palm, don't do iron plam.

umm hi Illusion

Wah Ren Jie
08-15-2000, 09:56 PM
That would be the same as saying how do you know your sifu is any good. If your sifu is qualified to teach iron palm he should also be qualified to administer the proper jow. Your immediate problem is finding a sifu you trust. Contact other Sifus in or associated with that lineage. Tit Jueng training and dit da jow go hand in hand. You can't have one without the other. If you don't trust your sifu's linament don't train in his method.

08-16-2000, 12:26 AM
Well, how do you know that the other sifu's in that lineage will lie, also?

Wah Ren Jie
08-16-2000, 12:52 AM
I'll say it again. Don't train with a sifu you don't trust. If you're thinking of doing this training on your own, don't. Someone who knows what to look for has to observe you. You can seriously damage your hands all the way up to making yourself sterile. Be very careful. gung hay faat choy.

08-16-2000, 12:57 AM
I really appreciate your concern, and I have no desire to do the training without an instructor. I just want to know of a good jow that has been proven to work. Brian Gray said that you should not trust any jow that has not been proven. He said that if you have blind faith in Qusaimodo, then you deserve what Quasimodo does to you.

Wah Ren Jie
08-16-2000, 01:07 AM
I understand what you mean completely. But if you don't speak the language and haven't studied Chinese medicine, there is no way to know for sure if what you're getting "really" works. One thing is for certain. You should (at the very least)be able to trust your Sifu's opinion over some stranger on the internet. Gung hay faat choy!

08-16-2000, 01:17 AM
Well, some sifu are nuts who do not care about the safety of their students' well-being, so I do not think that it is a good idea to be too quick to immediately have blind faith in a sifu, either.

Wah Ren Jie
08-16-2000, 02:44 AM
Just as it is the Sufu's perrogative and duty to be sure of his student's integrity, so is it the student's job to be sure of the qualifications and integrity of his Sifu. Gung hei faat choy.

08-16-2000, 08:53 AM
Humblewarrior- i guess your best proof would be to make sure that the sifu who is claiming it can break. No sifu will show you iron palm without showing you that they can break. You have to model their movements in the beginning anyway. I think this pretty much breaks the skepticism in my book.

Peace /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

08-16-2000, 11:09 AM
obviously you have a problem trusting your sifu. You are not showing him respect by asking these questions. If you cannot trust him, then you should not be studying under him, therefore find a new Sifu whose abilities you can trust and learn from him, but don,t ever disrespect your Sifu while studying under him. But you should respect all Sifus of respectable styles. There are some to be wary of.

08-16-2000, 07:54 PM
i would like to point out that there are many schools which incorporate breaking. (lots of karate and tkd schools) and the teacher may break bricks... but that doesn't mean that he isn't doing damage to his hands.
it is known that many karate 'masters' don't do breaks in their older age due to arthritis, and damamge done from their earlier years of breaking.

how often do you see people breaking, esp with their fist, where the break relies entirely on dropping your body weight onto your fist, aligning the fist with the shoulder... (totally brute force.)

this is not good. i've even seen karate people break their hands doing breaks. (one guy hit wrong and pushed his ring and pinky knuckles halfway up to their wrist. and he still kept his game face... but that doesn't mean what he was doing was good.)
not showing pain is for some reason a big part of karate.

breaking should just be about dropping your hand, dead weight, totally relaxed, and breaking. (dropping your hand in front of you, not locking out your arm...

(i'm sure you know this already, i guess this is for those who might not.)

08-16-2000, 11:56 PM
There are also many fraudulent breaking methods out there. As far as being disrepectful to your sifu is concerned, I think a good sifu should repect your concerns about the safety of your own personal well-being. I also think that a good sifu should also not make you do body conditioning methods that are not safe. Hey, different students have different needs. For example, a sifu could not honestly expect someone who is elderly to do what a younger person does. Also, someone who has a physical disablility cannot be expected to do the things that a healthy person can do. I have read that a person who has a history of heart problems should not do any iron palm training. Is it really disrepectful for a personal with heart problems to refuse to do such training? Give me a break.

08-16-2000, 11:59 PM
what if I get some books on Chinese medicine? then I will at least have a better idea of whether or not the jow works. I think that it is better to not trust a sifu than it is to become permanently disfigured.

08-17-2000, 12:15 AM
there was an article in Martial arts training magazine once that told about the dangers of certain popular conditioning exercises. It said something like, "Do not blame your instructor for passing these methods down to you. Blame the tradition for passing it down to him." My feelings exactly. Overall, in most aspects of the training, any sifu knows better than me. However, I have done extensive research on many body conditioning methods, and some of the ones that are still commonly practiced today are definitely not safe. A good sifu should respect your concern about the safety of your well-being. If you do not care about your well-being, who will?

08-17-2000, 12:42 AM
Just about any school makes you sign a legal waiver saying that you assume the risk associated with the training. Therefore, from a legal point of view, what reason does a sifu have for caring about the safety of youe well-being?

Wah Ren Jie
08-17-2000, 12:47 AM
From what I've read, it seems as though you have some issues. And this thread has gotten totally off of the subject. What you should ask yourself are your training brothers and sisters healthy. Is your Sifu healthy. Is your Si-Gung healthy. Is this right for you. Everyone who has ever studied has had doubts about his or her instructor, but when you take it to this level. maybe you should consider researching an instructor that suits you. Gung hei faat choy.

08-17-2000, 01:01 AM
No offense, but I do not think that I was the one who took this thread off of the subject. What is Si-Gung? I have never heard of that term before. Also, even if the Sifu and his assistant instructor's are healthy, then how do you know that the liniment that they use for themselves is the same one that they have you use? Maybe I do ponder too much, but I would rather be safe than sorry. You really have to take into consideration that the damage that you inflict upon yourself with body conditioning methods must be removed immediately, so only a fool would be so quick as to trust just any old jow. I like to think of myself as an intellectual. I am sorry if I am offending anyone by saying this.

08-17-2000, 01:02 AM
What does Gung Hei fat Choy mean?

08-17-2000, 01:04 AM
MaFuYee- I completely understand your viewpoint and i can also understand the injuries involved with those practices. You also touched on the crucial factor that separates legit iron palm versus other breaking methods. The slight dropping of the palm is the key. Most learned iron palm practitioners can break when holding their palm at solar plexus height. There are many methods of breaking, but iron palm's practices and training is in a league of it's own.

Humblewarrior- From your posts it is clear that you really don't know what to look for in an iron palm instructor. You are very skeptical and untrusting, this is a bad thing when trying to learn valued teachings from a traditional sifu. From your statements it is also clear that you are probably not ready for iron palm training. There are many things that are supposed to be learned before you even start iron palm training. Internal workings and theory, chi gung, energy respiration techniques are all involved with pre-iron palm training.

Please don't take this personally or the wrong way. I am not trying to put you down in anyway. I just don't like the fact that people think they can just pick up iron palm by reading a book, watching a video, etc. This practice can severly hurt you if practiced wrong, that much is clear.

As for jow, jow is just not used for iron palm breaking. It is used primarily as a bruise liniment. There are different kinds of jow for certain practices. It is like the analogy that Brian Gray used. Dit Da Jow is like toothpaste. All toothpastes have different ingredients that do different things, but what makes them all the same is the fact that they clean your teeth.

As for the sifu's not looking out for you. Well that's a tricky subject. Let me say this though, when you have found the right one you will know it.

Peace /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

08-17-2000, 01:15 AM
Yes, Illusionfist. I know that there is a difference between dit da jow, which is for sore muscles, and iron palm liniment, which is for iron palm training, wooden dummy training, and breaking boards. No offense, but I thought that I already said that I do not any any intention of doing this kind of training without a sifu's supervision. Even once I do find a Sifu, I would prefer that he would let me put off doing any iron palm training at least for a good year or two, not only to prepare me for the training, but also so that he can prove to me that he desrves my trust. Illusionfist, I have to thank you for being the only one here to give me somewhat of a safe answer. I do not mean to offend the other guys, but, with the excepton of illusionfist, you guys kept go around and around in circles without really directly addressing my concerns. Thanks again, illusionfist. I still think that I should get some good books on chinese medicine to get a better idea of whether or not the liniment I am interested in using works.

08-17-2000, 01:19 AM
Mafuyee, I apologogize for including you in that. You have helped to illustrate my concerns.

08-17-2000, 02:54 AM
Humblewarrior :
My sifu is a perfect example about your questions. I was training under another teacher and not happy with his training methods. Seeing the strenght, power & hardness that my Sifu had and all the answers to the questions about conditioning, i decided to follow him. When you train in proper Iron Palm training including all conditioning you should feel the difference within 4-6 weeks approx. Some sooner, some later. But check out the credibility of your Sifu and Si-gung(sifu's teacher).Nothing about training is guaranteed. I have trained with many teachers to find that what I have is the best and most traditional

08-17-2000, 11:51 PM
Well, let's say that I get a liniment from someone who is both a sifu and a qualified herbalist. Then i would not have to rely on my particular sifu's jow, right? Don't you think that a sifu would be more likely to let me use a jow that, although not his, is from a reputable source? Don't you feel that my sifu should be concerned about my mental piece of mind? I do not mean to troll here, but I think relying totally on your own siu's judgement is really limiting yourself.

08-18-2000, 04:21 AM
The only way you will EVER get a good recipe for dit dat jow is from a sifu that gives it to you. NO sifu in his right mind will sell a really good recipe in a magazine. He will only give it to a few select students.

08-18-2000, 02:58 PM
forgive me but I think you have it backwards.... You are soposed to earn your Sifu's trust. He is soposed to let You know when it is time to more on to iron plam.

Find a sifu that you want to earn the respect of, work for that. When the time comes for "special training" He or She will let you know.

It really is not a good idea to mix jow from one place and training from another.

08-20-2000, 10:18 PM
Why is that?

08-21-2000, 01:30 AM
Originally posted by word:
"No sifu in his right mind will ever sell a jow in a magazine. He will keep it a secret to his select students."

Well, Brain Gray, Wing Lam,and Paul Hwang all sell there jows in magazines. Do you think that all of these guys need psychological help?