OT not OT-like

[ZIM]

There's been a lot of political threads going on and I think I'm not alone in considering them a little redundant and not too helpful. They are needed as a way to air POVs, so thats not my objection [keep on doing it if you must] but I would wish that we could discuss KF again.

So, in that spirit, I'll offer this as a kind of segueway.
Across the world, in Australia, Germany, the UK, the Mid-east, Africa, even S. America, terrorism has been on the rise. The suicide bomber a fairly new kind of attacker dating back to Beirut in the mid-80s at least. They've been depicted in movies as well.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20020521-18112752.htm

As MAs and citizens, IF [God forbid] a group of these were to begin operating in your area, this would certainly give you pause for thought, no? So, say you see a _____ terrorist fiddling with his coat, and notice bombs strapped to him? C'mon play along....

The questions for me are:
1] Should we, as MAs and citizens, take it upon ourselves to intervene? How?
2] Would I, myself, do so? How?
3] Would my current level of training assist me, in this scenario?

To start with me:
1] this is easy, because its abstract & I can sound noble. "YES". I'm studying an art that supposedly encourages protecting the weak, I'm @ least somewhat trained, etc. etc. I can state this as a positive duty [I must do so] or a passive one [...if there's no one else to do it].
How, though? A flying tackle? Suddenly, I'm seeing a scenario where I wouldn't mind knowing some BJJ. A problem: I don't know a lot about how these devices are rigged. So I'm starting to learn more about the methods employed by them. I also know that I can inform others, etc.

2] this is tough. Knowing that I might be fighting my last fight is a horrid thought. Knowing that I might save many other lives is uplifting, though. On the whole, I think I would, but I really hope I'll never have to put up or shut up. How: my art is a primarily striking one. I suppose that, if the trigger were in his hand or something, I could at least keep him busy. I'm thinking that a little more on the grappling end is better tho. Break his legs to keep him in one spot? This gives me a direction to train in. How about you?

3] yes. But I must train harder, as always.

Naive as it is, I'd like to hear from others, any knowledge you might have, & any thoughts on scenarios from real life. :)

[Laughing Cow]

Originally posted by ZIM
The questions for me are:
1] Should we, as MAs and citizens, take it upon ourselves to intervene? How?
2] Would I, myself, do so? How?
3] Would my current level of training assist me, in this scenario?

1.) No, you are neither trained to act or judge correctly.
2.) No.
3.) No, I train MA NOT anti-terrorist techniques.

This type of talk always comes up after a major incident and it all sounds nice and cushy while you talk it over.

In real life things happen differently and even if you saw him you might not be able to prevent his action.

While it may help lifes, it may also cause extra injuries and death.
There is a very thin line before this type of behaviour and vigilante type of action.

AND to be brutally honest I don't think that most Americans at the moment are mentally calm and stable enough to judge reasobaly and act cool.
As neither would be the israeli, palestinians, etc.

Attacking a suicide bomber is a sure way for him to hit the trigger right there and than.

Just my 0.2 cents worth of thought.

[neptunesfall]

sorry but if some ******* is going to blow up the plane that i and maybe 100+ other people are on...anti-terrorist trained or not, i'm going to do my best to take him out.
if he's a suicide bomber, he's going to hit the trigger anyways.
i'd rather die trying than die sniveling in a seat.

[Laughing Cow]

neptunesfall.

Your case is not valid as you take an extreme unlikely case.
ZIM didn't ask about specific scenario but about how and if we should act all.
Plus, are we as modern MA trained and prepared to do so.

How about if you are in a shopping centre with your Wife and Kids and the suicide bomber is about 50 metres away with security guards around??

Changes the ball-game and your response I am sure.

[ZIM]

Laughing cow's POV is valid. He's correct in saying that I'm not trained to act or judge correctly and it's true- I study a MA not anti-terrorist tactics.

The absurdity of the question, BTW, is not lost on me. I can see the first lesson in BJJ:
Instructor: Welcome. Any questions?
Me: What if a suicide bomber comes at me?
Instructor: Get out. I mean it.


AND to be brutally honest I don't think that most Americans at the moment are mentally calm and stable enough to judge reasobaly and act cool.

I can thank you for your honesty. I was at pains to remind all of us that terrorism is a global concern, however. If you please, how would europeans react? Run? Call the cops? So would Americans in the US. If you like, the more passive-voiced obligation [do something if no one else available] is the most reasonable, IMO. I agree that vigilantism is incorrect.

neptunesfall: you refer to the hijackings on 9/11. There were MA-trained persons that took action on at least one flight, so your point is also valid in turn. You can fly with me, anytime. :D

last:
Attacking a suicide bomber is a sure way for him to hit the trigger right there and than.
Yeah, thats kind of the scary part. Thats the reason its such a brutally effective thing for causing terror. About the only thing you can do at that point is get him to explode where he does the least damage. :(

[Laughing Cow]

ZIM.

The question is ot absurd at all. I have been asking myself this for many years.

In my homecountry and in other places where I have lived I have encountered terrorism since I was young.

IMHO, I don't think that your training will affect very much how you will react in such a situation.

There are some people that will act and others that won't regardless of their chances of success or prior training.. This I think is true for wherever you are.

As for 9/11 latest info seems to show that they Terrorists used some form of gas, which makes sense when you want to control a larger amount of People.

Just my thoughts (been told they are worth nothing)

[ZIM]

LC- seems a little fatalist. It may just be my outsized American ego getting out of hand, but I'd like to think I have some say in whether or not I die, esp. if given a warning. "rail, rail 'gainst the dying of the light' and all that. :)

Besides, it also looks like the culprits are taking things into their own hands, so shouldn't we at least be prepared to? In this, I'm meaning mentally so, if nothing else.

Given the subject matter of this forum, I don't think I'll be far off in stating that all of us believe in the right to defend ourselves? How do you [the general 'you'] view this as different??

I am seeing what youre saying here: in a sudden crisis, you will tend to react naturally, whether that be freezing on the spot or lashing out. Agreed. This is a topic oft discussed and the reason for 'reality' training, whatever one may think of it.

However, in this case, what if you HAD seen the culprit BEFORE he had a chance to act? This is closer to what I'm asking. It puts the topic more into a KF angle, which is what I'm after. :)