View Full Version : indonesian tiger kuntao

08-15-2000, 06:29 PM
I'm a teacher and practionner of kuntao silat De Thouars.... kuntao is the chinese MA
in indonesian... we have fukien ,shantung,canton kuntao style.... in kuntao silat the kuntao came from shaolin and internal style(pakua) with the influence of the silat.

About the tiger...we have Harimau silat a groundfighting style...we have also kuntao tiger forms(similar to hung gar tiger).... the shantung black tiger is a kuntao style a northern chinese style nothing to do with the hung gar or fu jow pai style...if you want to find similarities the shantung BT seem be like Cha Chuan(long fist)

By the way the kuntao of indonesian is almost alway blend with some silat...

Sorry for my english

08-15-2000, 09:02 PM
Hi its true what you say SHANTUNG BLACK TIGER is a northern style and it does look like northern long fist and it might have Silat in it but all the black tiger styles that come from shaolin are called HARK FU MOON and then they branched out and you have styles like Fu Jow Pai and Hak Fu Pai and Shantung black tiger that is from the north in the book SHANTUNG BLACK TIGER A SHAOLIN FIGHTING ART of NORTH CHINA it says the style was transmited tocertain masters of south china it has a relation to the other black tiger styles of shaolin being that they all came from HARK FU MOON and shaolin. FIRE HAWK

08-16-2000, 01:28 AM

The author of the book shantung BT is Tjoa Kek Kiong is master of a various kuntao formslike the fukien and shantung kuntao...by the way He have developed a synthesis system taking some japenese judo,karate,jujutsu and aikido stuff incorporated with his kuntao..

How pure is his shantung BT I don't know!!!
the interesting thing about Hark Fu moon and the tiger of the hung gar is.... probably the founder of hung gar learned the tiger style(hark Fu moon) and incorporate the crane
style...to create the hung gar.

In Fu Jow pai refered to what I see and read about that...It's look like hung gar whit more tiger attitude and mouvement since It S incorporated hung gar in his curriculum... But that's normal cause very pure style have around 3 or less original empty hand forms, the other forms are adds by the next generation disciples.

almost every shaolin style have the tiger claw...and also some internal art like hsing I chuan have a tiger form in his 12 animals forms...the tiger is a attitude, a flavour not just a clawing formation of the hand.

enought for now /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)))


08-16-2000, 01:42 AM

Where can I get a copy of the book by Tjoa Kek Kiong on BT Shantung? Thanks for your help.


08-16-2000, 09:12 AM
BabyDuck /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif))

Check at www.amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com) or www.chapter.ca (http://www.chapter.ca) for this book

08-16-2000, 01:27 PM
Hi STEEEVE are you saying that TJOA KHEK KIONG made a synthesis system with ju do karate jujutsu aikido and kuntao are you saying that this synthesis system is what is in his book SHANTUNG BLACK TIGER or is the SHANTUNG BLACK TIGER a separet system. FIRE HAWK

08-16-2000, 06:25 PM
Howdy Fire

I don't know if the form in the book is pure Shantung BT...Probably It is.

But for sure the form in the book is a short version adapted for the public...and almost all kuntao is not show to the public


08-19-2000, 10:58 PM
sir, may i have the name of the teachers of these chinese "kuntao" styles you are talking about?

and who is the teachers of the indonesian "kuntao" styles you are speaking about?

are you indonesian? or dutch?

08-19-2000, 11:47 PM
Hey Kuntaw man. I notice by the """ your using that you might be confusing Kuntaw w/ Kuntao.

According to my fillipino teachers, 'Kuntaw' is an indigineous fillipino art. They have also heard of 'Kuntaw used in reference to a blended Chines/Filipino art, but they are not sure what the Chinese part would be. (Is this your definition? Just curious. I like to get the hiostory from each group.)

KunTao is a phrase used briefly in China for martial arts, and in pre independance Indonesia it was used for Chinese martial arts. In Malaysia it was a term that was used interchangeably with Silat for martial arts.

From what i have seen of KunTao Silat DeThouras, there is way more Silat in it than CMA. Although you can find CMA principles hidden in it.

Wellem DeThouras, the founder of KunTao Silat DeThouras openly states that what he teaches is his own expression of these arts, and the name 'KunTao Silat' is his way of giving hormat to all his teachers, both Chinese and Indonesian.

He also says to be wary of others using the phrase KunTao Silat because he made it up in the 60's as a lark, and people know claim it as something that is used in the Bahasa cultures - which it isn't. (His statement in a seminar. ) Rascism has prettry much wiped out the term Kun Tao in Indonesia and Malaysia. (My observation)

His brothers teach a family style of silat called Sera. They do not practice 'KunTao'. They are all Dutch Indos. And are very accomplished.

I hope this helps.

08-20-2000, 06:57 AM
My Teacher is Guru Tuan Goodwin one of the senior of Bapak Willem De Thouars...I had the chance to meet Mr.De Thouars most time when He came to MTL for seminar by the way we had a small group had the opportunities to learn Tjimande from him....I teach kuntao silat in the Ottawa area and Guru Goodwin at Montreal...Canada

about the kuntao we have a lot of kuntao...we begin with shaolin arts(tiger,mantis,monkey ectt) and at advanced level we learn internal style ...the pa kua chang is the core of our kuntao...by the way we mix kuntao with silat but each art have is own flavour.

I invited you guy to our forum at http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/kuntaosilat