View Full Version : Choy Lay Fut forms from book. Can you identify these?

08-15-2000, 07:56 PM
I purchased two boks from master Lee Koon Hung. They were entitled "Choy Lay Fut Foundamental Fist Form and Dragon Fan Form" and "The Spining Spear of Choy Lay Fut". I really like these forms and I was wondering what the actual name of these forms are.


"Crosstraining is the key"
~Sifu Rick Tucci~

08-15-2000, 08:08 PM
The name of the fan form is Fay Loong Sin (Dragon Fan). An older name is Dai Yut Sin or Pressure Point Fan. The Foundamental Fist Form is a short version of what is known as Che Kuen, which is the 2nd foundamental form that was taught by Sifu Lee Koon Hung. The Spinning Spear has two names Tang Loong Chueng (Dragon Spear) or Jaw Cheung (Left-Side Spear).

Hope this helps.

08-16-2000, 12:34 AM
It's worth getting both Sifu Lee Koon Hung's spinning spear book and Sifu Tat Mau Wong's Spear video as both are two halfs of the same form. Lee Koon Hung's book is the first half and Tat Mau Wong's is second half. the full form is also known as the left,right spinning spear.

08-16-2000, 01:03 AM
The two forms are not halves of the same form. Choy Lay Fut as taught by SIfu Lee Koon Hung (my sifu) has three spear forms:

Moi Fah Sup Sam Cheung (13 Plum Flower Spear)
Tang Loong Cheung (Dragon or Left-Side Spear)
Yow Cheung (Right-Side Spear).

The form in the book is the complete form with a couple of slight changes to indicate that a person learned from a book rather than true source, Sifu or one of his instructors.

08-16-2000, 05:23 PM
Does Lee Koon Hung or Doc Fai wong have any tapes out?


"Crosstraining is the key"
~Sifu Rick Tucci~

Ben Gash
08-16-2000, 07:12 PM
Kymus, if you go to www.secretsoftheorient.com (http://www.secretsoftheorient.com) and www.espy-tv.com (http://www.espy-tv.com) , you will find two sets of videos by Doc Fai Wong.

08-16-2000, 07:23 PM
You can go to:
www.leekoonhungkungfu.com (http://www.leekoonhungkungfu.com)

The official website for the Lee Koon Hung Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu Association currently operated by Sifu Lee Koon Hung's younger brother Sifu Li Siu Hung.

Two videos are available:

Buddha Palm - Fut Ga Jeurng
8 Drunken Immortals - Joi Baat Sien Kuen

Both are good forms.

08-16-2000, 08:55 PM
Thanks alot for the info guys. I'll deffinatly be sure to check them out


08-17-2000, 12:36 AM
CLFNOLE, I have contacts in Hong Kong that have told me different.

08-17-2000, 12:47 AM

Who are your contacts. I am an instructor at the Lee Koon Hung Kung Fu Association in Florida. I learned two of the spear forms from Sifu Lee Koon Hung and the third from his brother Sifu Li Siu Hung.

Make sure you check your sources because the forms are generally different and make no sense whatsover to combine the two.

08-17-2000, 02:00 AM
The contacts I met from Hong Kong were other HSCLF practitioners but were not from Master Lee Koon Hung's lineage or even my Sifu's (Edmund Ng) lineage, I just thought I would bring the subject up. One of the guys I was sitting a banquet with, I dont remember his name, but was of the late master Ho Ngau's lineage was talking about how some instructors were starting to bring out kung fu on Video tapes (by the way a lot of brandy and beer laced with rice wine had been consumed)and the talk eventually got around to CLF in books and the subject Sifu Tat Mau Wong's tape and Master Lee Koon Hung 's Spear book came up. I dont know if it's true about the book and the tape being one form or not, As I have no ill intent or any bad feelings towards anyone of master Lee Koon Hung's Lineage it's just that unless someone brings a subject up the chances are the no one gets to know anything. The story is most probably wrong I didn't pick it up wrong, after reading your reply I think the story teller was just jealous becouse he didn’t think to do it himself.

08-17-2000, 07:42 PM

I meant no ill will towards you. Having seen many different branches of Choy Lay Fut, I have come to realize that we all share the same names of certain forms for example Sup Gee Kow Dah Kuen, however the manner in which we perform them may differ. Tat Mau Wong is my Si Hing and was a student of Sifu Lee Koon Hung.

Like I said Sifu taught three separate forms. I have read that other Hung Sing branches have a right & left side spear but I have never seen them. Who knows maybe years ago our Left-Side Spear form & Right-Side Spear form were one in the same. Many forms have evolved over the years as they have been passed from sifu to student.

Anyway, no hard feelings. It is nice to talk with other choy lay fut practioners to exchange ideas and viewpoints.

12-21-2000, 03:49 PM
Apologies for this late reply to this old topic. I know this topic was posted long ago, but I only recently joined this forum, and did a search on some related topics when I discover this one. I have a specific question for CLFNole, as we are from the same linage.

You said:
>The Foundamental Fist Form is a short version of >what is known as Che Kuen, which is the 2nd >foundamental form that was taught by Sifu Lee >Koon Hung.

I only recently saw this book about the fundamental fist form, when my friend returned from the states where he bought it in some shop in NYC. I looked at the form in the book (only briefly), and besides some small (very small) changes, the form seems pretty much complete to the version I know. My sifu learned this form from Master Lee Koon Hung in 1987. He then after taught the form to us. Later, during the late 80's and early 90's, master Lee and Master Yuen Hung Chow visited our country and looked at our forms. The form was exactly the same as he taught it to my sifu, so therefor I know my sifu never learned this from a book. I also saw video tapes of Master Lee Koon Hung's students performing the form in his school in Kowloon. After My sifu and his senior, trained with Master Lee, Master Lee made them a video copy of the form so that they can go home to practice, and incase they forget something. I think it was also done to help them. Master Yuen Hung Chow also taught the form exactly the same way (only his tiger claw was sligtly different) as the way we learned it. Im not arguing about the validity of the form, I was just wondering about what you said. If the form in the book, is only part of the Che Kuen form, then how much longer is the che kuen form then? What other techniques are in this form, that are not in the one in the book? I could also understand why Master Lee could have changed the form when he taught it to my sifu at that time, but that is my opinion.

Of the topic a little...
I visited your school briefly in 96, but we couldnt stay long. Master Lee was in hospital, and sifu was visiting master Lee. We stayed in the hotel accross the road. Whe never got to train, but whe attended the tournament. I have allot of respect for your school and your students. I have seen Joe Keit perform some forms on a video I have, and I am VERY impressed with his style. I think he is a very talented Martial Artist. He seems to have a good understanding of what he does. He also seems like a good fighter. It is important for a Martial Artist to be well rounded in both forms and fighting. Something I think Joe is very good at.

I also have a copy of a the Video of the 1997 Tat Wong Tournament. Right at the end, when it says Additional footage(or something like that), there is one guy who was performing the CLF Kwon Dao form. I presume he was from your school. He was a Chinese Looking guy (could be wrong, as the tape was not to clearly dubbed to PAL format). I was very impressed with his kwon dao form. If he is from your school, who is this guy? Does he still train?

Circumstances prevents me from furthering my training at the moment, but I hope to visit you guys soon.

[This message was edited by WuXia on 12-22-00 at 08:06 AM.]

12-25-2000, 05:43 PM
To WuXia:

The form that you know (the one from the book) is about 70% of the original che kuen form (aka: ng lun choi). The form was modified somewhat when Sifu Lee began teaching at Hong Kong University. As far as other techniques it has its really just more typical CLF, however there is no sow choy in the original mostly pather fists and palm strikes.

12-26-2000, 11:52 AM
thanx for your reply. I find this specific version of the form to be a great basic set. It gives new students a good understanding of the basics of CLF.

The Ng lun choi form you refered to, sounds pretty interesting.

Gwa Sow Chop
12-27-2000, 04:53 AM
Hey....I have always wondered something. I know the set that you refer to as Siu Moi Fah. taught to me by a kung fu brother in Florida. he learned from the Lee Koon Hung line. The set is almost identical to the one in LKH's poster. (prolly changed a bit by my source:-))))

Any way my kung fu Si Bok (in Toronto) taught me another Siu Moi fah, that is identical to the one that Doc fai Wong's students do. (I saw them perform in Frisco at tat Mau wongs tourney in 91)

Do you know the history of the siu moi fah??
I have suspected that one (from Lee Koon Hung) is from the Jeung Hung sing lineage......where the doc fai wong one is from the Chan Hung sing lineage.
Do you have any thoughts on this???
I would be interested to know.
GSC (in Canada :-)

12-27-2000, 09:34 PM
To Gwa Sow Chop:

The form in the poster is the same form that was taught by Sifu Lee Koon Hung. Our CLF does come from Jueung Hung Sing which accounts for the difference. There are many forms taught in CLF that have the same name but are different. For example I have a book on Ping Chan Kuen & Moi Fa Kuen demonstrated from a student of Chan Kin Man whose father was Chan Hon Hung and it is quite different that the Ping Chan Kuen & Sui Moi Fa Kuen I know. I believe that as forms are passed from one generation to the next they inevitably change somewhat, just like when you have a line of people and tell one person something and continue to pass it to the last person. Generally what you initial told the first person has changed by the time it reaches the last person.

I am a firm believer in tradition, I teach the forms the same way Sifu Lee Koon Hung and his brother Sifu Li Siu Hung taught me. I don't like to change them. Sometimes when I demonstrate I might change something a little bit for beauty but generally I like to "keep it real".


12-27-2000, 11:33 PM
I am of Chan Hon Hung’s lineage and I would agree with what CLFNole says that as forms are passed from one generation to the next they inevitably change, for instance the Siu Moi Fa form from Chan Kin Man’s book is the same as our version, however the book version is only the first half of the Moi Fa form which is practised at our school (the full version has at leased 138 moves). The forms, which are in the other books: Ping Jan Bak Mo & Ping Kuen vary a great deal from the forms of the same name practised by our school.

Saying is not boasting at all

12-29-2000, 02:29 PM
Yesterday, I happened to see a book from Doc Fei Wong on CLF 5 animals kung fu. Although basic concepts of 5 animals are similar, I could not even detect any CLF in his style. Im not saying he doesnt do CLF (all respetc to Master Wong), I'm saying his style is different to mine. Very much different. Maybe the book was not on CLF 5 animals. Exactly where does Master Wongs CLF come from. Is the the same line as what you do Alex?

A friend of mine learned a style called Jow Gar (somewhere in the states). Recently at a tournament, he performed a form from this style on the demo section. It seemed very similar to CLF. In actual fact, the form seemed to have been based on the Ping Kuen form of CLF, as most movements and patterns looked similar. He called the form the Siu Fuk Fu Form. CLFNole and ALex, do you guys know this Jow Gar style? Does it come from CLF. To me it looks like a combo between Hung Ga and CLF.

Have a good New year you guys.

12-29-2000, 06:48 PM
Jow Gar is a good effective southern style, and to some people looks very similar to CLF. When I was in Hong Kong a few years ago, I came across lot of Jow Gar schools a the Tin Hou Tam Gung festivals. I believe its history only goes back as far as the early part of the 20th Century. The founder learnt several styles of kung fu one of them being I believe was Hung Gar, I cant quit recall the names of other styles right now. I think the footwork was Northern in origin though. As for my lineage I’m from the Fong Yuk Shu and Chan Hon Hung, sifu is Edmund Ng (Ng Hao Tak).

Saying is not boasting at all

01-01-2001, 06:24 PM
Jow Gar was founded by the five Jow brothers. The style primarily combines Hung Gar and Choy Gar with some northern influence. Since two of the five southern family styles (hung, lau, choy, lay & mok) are included that is the reason it resembles CLF. Most of the southern styles have some similarities to each other.

As far as Doc Fai Wong goes I think he initially followed Sifu Lau Bun for a short time and later followed Sifu Wong Gong. I read somewhere that the 5 animals form in the book is a Southern Shaolin form and never mentions that it is CLF.