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Pa Su Lang
08-16-2000, 12:44 AM
I see the Green Dragon Studio's ads in kung fu magazines all the time and I was just wondering if anyone had any comments on their tapes. The Green Dragon Sifu is John Allen who runs ads in different magazines. Any advice???

SnakeEagle
08-18-2000, 10:22 AM
What type of material are you interested in. mabey I coud steer you to something youd enjoy?,What kinda style do you do? or interested in if a begginer? Id be glad to help in any way possible
Snake Eagle

chessboxer
01-11-2001, 03:38 PM
Hello,


Snake Eagle, have you seen any of his tapes? I have heard various things both neg and postive. What systems do you have experience in? Alot of the articles that green dragon has done have seem credible. Any info or opinions will be appreciated.

Humbly yours
Johnny

MoQ
01-11-2001, 06:38 PM
They are mainly a "forms warehouse" and all detail and subtlety are gone. If you are looking for just forms for competition, they have some interesting looking stuff, but like I said, all stylistic nuance is gone. They blow through everything at the same speed and basically seem like they think it's all the same. You get the feeling that they weren't "taught" any of the material. They are very poor with the "internal" stuff because they are into body building and "strong always wins" and the Bak Mei and White Lotus they claim just sux a$$...

Ben Gash
01-11-2001, 07:58 PM
Their northern stuffs pretty funny too. Way too rigid, and lacking balance and focus, and the verbal delivery just sends me to sleep!

"Weapons are the embodiments of fear,
the wise use them only when they have no choice"
Lao Tzu

chessboxer
01-11-2001, 08:57 PM
Greetings,


Yes, I know they offered many forms. I do recall a few years back John R. Allen put out a article on strength vs technique. It started alot of bad press and so fourh. Just where did John R Allen get his training? What videos or books would you guys suggest to get for information? Any suggestion or opinions??

Humbly yours
Johnny

fiercest tiger
01-12-2001, 03:44 AM
well they do have some nice looking stuff but, no resemblance to pak mei, postures no tun tou fau chum. 70% of weight on back foot, bum not tucked in, spine not straight.

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

chessboxer
01-12-2001, 08:25 AM
Hello,


Fiercest Tiger, how should the weight distribution be? So they do the movement but lack the detail that makes it powerful. I know that making the spine straight and tucking in the pelvis is common in many king fu systems. I have read about bak mei, yet i have no hands on knowledge about the system...maybe you could give your opinion on this.

Humbly yours
Johnny

fiercest tiger
01-12-2001, 09:03 AM
weight is 50-50 even, but there hole structure is out of wack. never get ging like this!!

moves have similarities but not what i was after, no where near the real thing. all depends on what you want buddy.

hope this helps abit.. :)

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

UberShaman
01-12-2001, 09:52 AM
they are the first to admit all there forms are put through the grid of southern shaolin. The forms are performed that way on purpose , if you ever see there team perform its much better. Sifu Allen studied with 6 sifus I believe lee ying arng was his main teatcher but he studied with chang deng cheng for 6 yrs aswell. At least he doesnt change the forms for the tapes like some well known sifus do., the narration on the tapes usually doesnt give as much info as id like about the forms histories, but he will gladly answer questions by mail, or phone if your lucky enough for them to give you the number,you should see his female students doing iron palm breaks,, he definetly knows his stuf

chessboxer
01-12-2001, 10:02 AM
Hello,


I remember most of the articles that I saw in Inside Kung Fu it had mostly females in the green dragon articles. The moves were demonstrated by females, that was a new thing for me to see. i remember in their old ads there was a pic of John, Chang, and Chicoine together.

fiercest tiger
01-12-2001, 11:03 AM
what is the web site of these guys...

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

chessboxer
01-12-2001, 08:13 PM
Hello,


Green dragon doesnt have a web site. Yet, Gene Chicoine does. The url is <A HREF="http://www.shuaichiao.com." TARGET="_blank">www.shuaichiao.com.</A> I know Chicoine was working with John Allen for a while.

Pilgrim
01-17-2001, 03:01 AM
John Allen may have had a number of teachers. One that is not mentioned is Feeman Ong, one of the first to teach kung fu in northern Ohio. Master Ong graduated from Barberton Highschool in the late 1940's early 1950's.Master Ong's teachers were supposedly three people, a master Kao Tao Sheng, currently living in Taiwan. He's old, in his 80's,and while head of the school,most training is done by his senior students. Master Kao was supposedly a teacher who pushed you to your physical limits. Then there was a master Jin, who was into internal training and of course taught with a lot of heart. Feeman Ong's main teacher was a master Lau, one of those people who left to ,"go to the mountains." However Fernando Blanco Dopazo (The Mantis Cave)says Feeman Ong studied under Wang Song Ting, a mantis sifu from Shantong. If you look in the Green Dragon catalog, you'll see that a lot of the forms are from the Feeman Ong curriculum. Feeman Ong was legendary in the Cleveland/Akron area. He had a huge school, was really into herb formulas that were supposedly secret or very special.He had lots of training programs, from the 100 days arm grabs, to the big and small body, to the power exercises, and lots more. Small in height but over 200 pounds. When he died, his son took over the school and that caused lots of bickering or resentments among other students. If you look in the Akron yellow pages you'll see off shoots of the Feeman Ong school. Whatever you think of Feeman Ong and his students, they really are dedicated practitioners. REALLY dedicated. They train. Some people feel that the forms are a wierd blend of northern and southern forms. I don't know. I do know that what I've learned has helped me on the path. All errors, if any, are mine.

chessboxer
01-17-2001, 07:45 AM
Greetings,


Thanks Pilgrim for the information. What about Gene Chicoine? What is his connection to John R Allen and green dragon?

MoQ
01-17-2001, 06:29 PM
So they have Southern Shaolin Tai Chi, linear Ba Gua etc. and Hsing-I that looks like they are trying to achieve something but aren't really sure what it is...

If they have legitimate material and teaching authority, they should stick with what they know, because evrything that they hold in their "catalog" that is not authorized is a straight up INSULT to that which they pretend to be so fully dedicated.

chessboxer
01-31-2001, 09:15 AM
Hello,


Since in their ads they talk about having white lotus, which branch are these forms from? If they do have internal but not teach it for they believe in muscle, then wouldnt the forms be empty. By the way did anyone see the responses that John R. Allen and Chicoine had in the recent inside kung fu issue?

MonkeySlap Too
01-31-2001, 09:26 PM
I did read it. I sent a rather long response to IKF that takes these two to task for really just being silly and taking on a victim mentality.

If they were really as great as they claim, they would prove it, just like anyone has too.

I personally doubt the worth of thier material on tape, and I am disapointed in Gene Chicoines approach to promoting the Chang Shia arts. I cannot attest to his skill, but if you ask around...

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

chessboxer
01-31-2001, 11:28 PM
Greetings,


I see monkeyslap too. What exactly is Mr Chicoine skill and background. i have read some of the past articles in Inside kung fu and havent really found a good source of info on who he trained with. By the way, may I ask what arts you practice? That is a good statement...if you have skill show it, if you work hard it will show.

MonkeySlap Too
02-01-2001, 12:25 AM
I have records somewhere, but here is a summary: Gene Chicoine was a Karate guy who took on CMA rather late in life. Chang Tung Sheng beleived him when he said that he could grow Shuai Chiao into an international art. Unfortunately, While Gene Chicoine was put in charge of Chang's organization, he disregarded the input of his seniors in the art and treated his leadership of the ISCA as leadership of everybody. As a result, no one wanted to follow him and multiple organizations formed. These other organizations have done much more to further thae art, whereas from reading his magazine articles the only thing I see Gene Chicoine promoting is himself.

I have a few questions for the 'Green Dragon' schools: 1.) Why don't you (Gene Chicoine) compete as ALL Shuai Chiao groups have? 2.) If Gene Chicoine is so deadly, tell me who he beat. David Lin of Atalanta Georgia always seems to get defferential treatment from other masters because people know his fighting record. I have seen this first hand. Where are Gene Chicoine's accomplishments? Shuai Chiao is an art proven on the mat. 3.) How long did he study under master Chang? What other CMA did he practice, and from whom did he learn?

This is not meant to be antagonistic, but all I ever get is attitude out of these folks, and not a whole lot of substance. They are welcome to prove that they are superior - but they would rather hide behind titles and make proclamations.

I am an open book, Chess Boxer. I hold pretty high falutin' rank for those of you that care about rank in Shuai Chiao and the Chang Shia arts under the ACSCA. (although my comments are my own and NOT meant to represent the ACSCA) I also hold teaching certificates in Kali-Silat, Judo (from my teenage years), and have spent a lot of time with other CMA schools. There is more, but I find 'rank' stuff boring. I'll be posting my teachers when I get my website up.

Over 20 years of hard training, and a lot of practical usage.

What do you practice Chessboxer?

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

chessboxer
02-01-2001, 01:00 AM
greetings,


Yes, I agree with your statements. If there skills are good then prove it. Sometimes you have to go a little bit further than just claims to back up what you know.


Well as far as my MA background. I started young age 7 in CMA. I started reading inside kung fu and various other mags to soak up anything martial wise. Spent my grade school years learning a mixture of nothern and southern shaolin. Near my high school years i got into wing chun. After a small break from MA, i got back into it. Been looking and researching wing chun and looking into tai chi, hsing I , ba gua. My teacher had a lot of different sifus who he learned from.

I agree with your statement about rank. I rather work hard and let that show. To me it is about knowledge and making it work. I have seen the politics in MA...and i know it will always be there. I only wish to share what has been taught to me. For instance i am now working hard to get the flexibilty i had in my younger days. I am always willing to learn and share experiences and knowledge. To me that is where it is at. If you wish to contact me further, just send me a email.

Humbly yours
Johnny

falconer
02-01-2001, 09:25 PM
To answer a few of MonkeySlap's questions. Chicoine did start out as a karate guy at age 16 (1946) while part of the US Occupational forces. Upon returning to Ohio he started teaching karate and eventually started learning kung fu(early 50's, so that'd make him 20ish, not really late in life). First from Femon Ong, then various others in Taiwan and China I think. Eventually, he became Chang's disciple(1978)and studied under him and Chang's kungfu brother Grandmaster Wang. As far as his fighting ability, he actually beat David Lin in a friendly challenge. He has proven himself many times in challenges, but most people never get to hear about such things. If I recall correctly, seven challenges were made after he became ISCA president, he won them all. He still fights regularly.
As far as competition goes, Chicoine did lots of fighting in Taiwan back in the 70's and 80's. When Chang was still alive, his school did compete in tournaments. However, Chang always stressed to him the importance of not letting sport *******ize the art.

He learned Shuai Chiao, various styles of Hsing I, Tai Chi from Chang. I think he learned Lohan and Pakua from him too, but he may have learned them from someone else previously. He also learned Hsing I from GM Wang, tho Chang often would change small things that Wang had taught him.

MonkeySlap Too
02-01-2001, 11:55 PM
Well, I stand corrected on the time frame. I am checking on the David Lin thing - was that David Lin of Atlanta or New York that Chicoine claims to have beaten?

Who did he fight in his seven challenge matches? It's okay to make claims, but what are the details?

If they are so good - why do they not compete? I do not beleive the rascism line. If they are as good as they claim the proof would be on the mat. I have not personally seen Chicoine or his students. I'd love to in the spirit of Shuai Chiao. I'd love to see another strong group prove themselves. The opportunnity is there.

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

MonkeySlap Too
02-02-2001, 12:11 AM
I just looked at your site! You have competitors! Gene looks like a tough old bird!

I'd be happy to try and create a peaceful enviornment for competition. I'll be eMailing you.

This could be great!!

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

falconer
02-02-2001, 01:30 AM
David Lin from Atlanta. Its been some years, I think it happened around the same time that Lin wrecked Chicoine's car. I'm not sure about the challenges, I just remember it being mentioned in an old newsletter that I was given copies of. I know of several of his recent fights, but not any of the ones from years past. As far as the tough old bird comment goes, I think his wife put it best when she called him a grumpy old dragon. And I do stress the grumpy part.

As far as competition goes, some of the younger guys may be interested. A few guys competed a couple years back when we were demonstrating in Italy and a few may have competed in Taiwan in the past during our demonstrations there. However, shuai chiao competition has a lot more rules and restrictions today than it did when GM Chang was still overseeing matches. A lot of the guys have issues with training to fight, but then having to "dumb down" things for competition.

[This message was edited by falconer on 02-02-01 at 03:35 PM.]

MonkeySlap Too
02-02-2001, 01:39 AM
I think this could be an opportunnity to build bridges.
The groups I have always played with felt similarly. I'll send over some recent rules.

This may take me a few days as I am off for a weekend of full contact stick fighting.

I have seen limited rules competitions held where the spirit of competition was actually friendly. This is what I would like to acheive if such a thing took place.

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

falconer
02-02-2001, 02:08 AM
I personally wouldn't mind seeing more friendliness amongst us shuai chiao folk. It mostly depends on Chicoine, and he can be very set in his ways. Send me an email and let me know what you propose. I'll most likely be visiting Chicoine next weekend when I go home.

I know we still deal with Jeng Hsing Peng. He was supposed to come out for Chicoine's surprise birthday party this summer but never made it. A few guys from Taiwan made it tho. I was really hoping to meet Jeng too. I heard stories when I was growing up about him using my uncle in a demonstration and beating the snot out of him. He was my HERO!!

I know that will *never* happen with Daniel's group though. Chicoine hates him big time, long story short he basically stabbed Chicoine in the back. From what I've been told of him, his skill isn't what the magazines suggest it is. From what I've seen of three of his blackbelt students, his skill isn't what the magazines suggest.

chessboxer
02-02-2001, 08:37 AM
Greetings,


It is good to see information being shared between you two Monkeyslap too and falconer. Which "Daniel" are you refering too? Is good to hear from people who have a good knowledge of Mr Chicoine skill. I take it his training in shuai chiao is more for combat than competion?


Humbly yours

falconer
02-02-2001, 07:28 PM
Yes, his training was all about combat, not competition. Daniel Weng is the person I was referring to.

chessboxer
02-02-2001, 07:59 PM
Hello,


Hmmm...Daniel Weng that is interesting. Falconer, I take it you have been a student for some time of Gene Chicoine? Do you primarily train in shaui chiao, or any other arts. Is his basic training based in the fundamentals of the art or does he use strength training exercises in his program. It will be interesting to read your further post. Best to you.

Humbly yours

falconer
02-02-2001, 08:27 PM
Most of what we do is Shuai Chiao, Tai Chi and Hsing I. We do strength training. Stances and various internal Chinese exercises. Basics and stances are stressed a lot.

Pilgrim
02-02-2001, 09:28 PM
What do you know of the history/lineage of the programs such as arm grabs, teet lohan chin chuan, stone warrior? A friend told me Master Ong concentrated on arm grabs and the body, and according to a tape Master Chicoine concentrates on the body and iron palm.How much do you feel herbs are necessary for success?

NineStep
02-02-2001, 10:20 PM
The Stone Warrior is Southern 5-Animal Shaolin as is the Teet Lohan Chin Chuan (Iron Buddha). The arm-grab you are refering to is called "Snake Turns Over" and comes from Choy Li Fut. It's a 100 day program designed for power and strength development.
My Opinion on Green Dragon is basically that I don't have one. They have a large variety of empty-hand and weapons forms available and seem to be on the up-and-up. However most of what they have has been revamped and reworked by S 5-Animal Shaolin and so therefor has that same flavor.
If you're interested oder a tape and decide for yourself if it's something you want to pursue. Be forewarned however it takes from 6-8 weeks to get your order (that has been my experience anyway).
Hope this helps out.

NineStep
Pak Mei Kung-Fu

falconer
02-02-2001, 10:21 PM
I'm not a historian, so you'd have to ask Chicoine. If I recall correctly, Stone warrior is something Rick Allen came up with on his own.

Pilgrim
02-04-2001, 05:39 PM
Thanks for the info. Curious about the real history. I've done the arm grabs for 100 days the I Nan Kuen and their version of Taming the Tiger. My routine consists of the body and arm grabs; I'm not dedicated since I miss about 20 days a year. Anyone do the Stone Warrior up to the 36 reps per set?

MonkeySlap Too
02-04-2001, 10:26 PM
Okay, what I'm going to propose is inviting your school to send competitors to an ACSCA event. I'll be sending rules over for your review.

I think David Lin will be responding to some of the comments about him. I spoke with him and he is a little annoyed at the rascist comment in IKF. I am too, as a caucasian who knows him and his students, it is a ridiculous claim.

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

falconer
02-04-2001, 10:56 PM
I might just be a little out of the loop, What racist comment in IKF? Is this something recent or from years past?


I'm sure there will be a few of the younger guys who will want to compete and maybe a few of the "old timers" (note: if I suddenly disappear its because one of them read that comment and thoroughly beat me) who used to compete in the early 80's. I really can't say for sure how I think the idea will be accepted.

Since it is coming from Master Lin's group, I think more people will be accepting of it. Email me the info and I'll give it to Chicoine this weekend when I go home to get some training in.

[This message was edited by falconer on 02-05-01 at 01:23 PM.]

falconer
02-04-2001, 11:19 PM
ok, this software officially hates me. grrrrrrrr

Valraven
02-04-2001, 11:30 PM
Falconer, As a student of Grand Master Daniel Weng
I would have to say that his skill is very high level. And he is always willing to show that to anyone who has a question about it.
And for the record, Chicoine was introduced to GM Ch'ang by Master Weng. In fact, Chicoine started out as Weng's student.
Chicoine's one time status as the Vice President of the International Shuai-chiao Association, (under GM Ch'ang) was administration position which was granted based on his financial stability, at the time (Most of GM Ch'ang's students were poor martial artists, putting themselves through school). Chicoine has always been junior in skill and rank to GM Weng.
I have always heard what GM Ch'ang and other's thought of Chicoine's skill, but I have never personally seen it, and would never make coment to it on a public forum, as it certainly is not my place.
I ask that you do the same, since GM Weng's proficiency and contribution to the art is quite apparent to those involved.
The internal politics of Shuai-chiao and the various associations are not my concern. I train and I teach and I'm always willing to talk shop, but let us keep the tone respectful.

Monkeyslap, what is your e-mail address? I have a question for you

falconer
02-04-2001, 11:30 PM
Oh yea, almost forgot. I'll be leaving sometime friday afternoon, so I'll need the info by then. Just use the address in my profile.

falconer
02-04-2001, 11:42 PM
I am well aware the Daniel Weng introduced Chicoine to Chang. As far as the skill and rank comment goes. Tell me exactly what rank did Daniel recieve from Chang?

I'm going to try to avoid a flame war here. Like I said before, I can't personally attest to Weng's skill. Most of what I know about him comes from others, specifically a former student of Matt Mollica. I've seen several of Daniel's students in action so to speak, one more than the others. And I must say, I wasn't impressed, nor were the untrained people in attended impressed, nor was one of my older kungfu brothers impressed with this person in the slightest.

Valraven
02-05-2001, 12:06 AM
I don't know what student you are reffering to, but I don't really see how that matters.
Being unimpressed by one student or students hardly reflects on the Master's skill.
I'm sure not all of GM Chicoine's students are good. Secondly, let us both be realistic for a moment. You say what you say based on the stories told to you by your teacher. As do I.
You are going to beleive him because he is your Sifu. I will believe GM Weng for the same reasons. Our conversations can still have a civil tone despite a difference of oppinion.
There are tournaments in Ohio all the time. You can
go to any of them and see first hand what his students are capable of

falconer
02-05-2001, 12:36 AM
Ok, lets not let this go any further. Let the old men argue amongst themselves and lets stay out of it. If they really wanted to settle it, we could just lock em in the room for a half hour and see what happens.

MonkeySlap Too
02-05-2001, 03:04 AM
My eMail: MonkeySlap1@Home.com

Falconer - I'll try to pull it together by Friday. My take on much of the politics is that it is very unfortunate. I know my teacher very well, and he has always been a peacemaker, even when he is royally ticked at someone, and this is because he cares about the art more than himself. For him, the answers are on the mat.

I tend to think the solution is in doing things for the art and friendly competition.

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

MonkeySlap Too
02-05-2001, 03:09 AM
In the latest IKF John Allen proclaimed that the reason Gene Chicoine does not take part in CMA events is because of a conspiracy by Chinese teachers and the 'media' to steal the spotlight.

I take the position that this is BS. I know many of these teachers. The problem may have more to do with Chicoine than with his fellow students of master Chang.

I think an important step for the future of our beloved art is for our generation to meet in friendly competition, as all Shuai Chiao students have throughout history.

After all, the truth is on the mat.

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

falconer
02-05-2001, 05:02 AM
heh. Good old Rick Allen. That is hardly the reason. As far as I know, he just doesn't care for them because a fighting in a tournament is a different animal than combat. I remember when I first joined his school I got a nice long lecture on how we didn't do sport shuai chiao.

He has participated in CMA events. Mostly events in Taiwan, like the big todo for the 10th anniversy of Chang's passing at the police college. And some tournament in Italy a couple years ago. I think its more of an issue with the fact that he's not the world's most social person. It took me almost 3 years before I had figured out if he liked me or just tolerated me because my uncle is his disciple.

If you can't get all the info together by friday, then just send me an email with a generalized idea that I can discuss with him.

[This message was edited by falconer on 02-05-01 at 07:08 PM.]

chessboxer
02-05-2001, 07:06 AM
Greetings,


I have seen information on who John Allen trained with. Did Chicoine train him as well? From what i have seen in past articles in Inside Kung fu ( from the 80's) he seemed to have a good knowlege of CMA fighting principles. Yes, there is a difference between using a fighting art for sport or for a real situation. In training for combat is there any differences in the training?

Best to you

02-05-2001, 08:08 AM
Hello,

The following remark was brought to my attention and it is a comment that user falconer left in a forum on kungfuonline.com:

“As far as his fighting ability, he actually beat David Lin in a friendly challenge.”

By falconer
Member
From: Akron,OH, USA
Registered: 09-28-99
Posts: 20

My comments:

1) We (the Lin family) have never express opinions about anyone who participate Shuai-Chiao related martial arts regardless of their skill levels.

2) We have never tried to address, what we consider as ‘better’, by comparing ourselves with anyone or to single out anyone.

3) We have totally accepted the fact that anyone could make comments and express their opinions. Therefore, we don’t try to affect other people’s opinions and we simply don’t care who people believe to be the best Master who knows the true art of Shuai-Chiao.

4) I am assuming that Master Chicoine doesn’t know that such remark was made. Please be cautious when you make such remark. The least you could do is to verify the statement and only make such remark with your instructor’s permission.

Futhermore, I have also heard some possible rumors about Chinese Shuai-Chiao instructors being racists. I can’t speak for all Chinese instructors but I could assure you that anyone who knows about the Lin’s family or has been in contact with them would tell you that this is simply not true.

Sincerely,
-James Lin

chessboxer
03-03-2001, 09:58 PM
Greetings,


I have heard the name of Jeng Hsing Peng, but i do not know much about him? James Lin, are you a student of David Lin? i remember reading an article about him not too long ago in a MA mag.

Humbly yours
Johnny

tnwingtsun
03-04-2001, 10:37 AM
Ya know,this topic was about green dragon's videos,as far as their Bai Mei set is concerned,its BS,(go learn Bai Mei first)I mean wow,to have so much knowledge on 50(or 2!) or so systems is beyond me,ok,see my post on the Pak Mei tonfa's concerning videos.Ok maybe their motives are to preserve a weapon or hand set,but are they really representing the true essance of the art??If I have 1000 technics to choose from,I've got a pretty big bag of tricks,now if I'm attacked my brain has to realize its being attacked(message delivered)now my brain has to process through those 1000 technics until it chooses the right one.
Now it has to pick and send the proper response
to the right part of the body(or parts) in order to survive the first attack.
This takes time.
I don't care how fast,strong or smart you are,there is lag time.
So when I see someone selling my art and many,many others,my BS detector located just to the left of my pu$ rader starts going off...LOUD!!
If anyones offended,oh well,I just call it like I see it.
"Don't hate me cuz ya ain't me"

tnwingtsun
03-04-2001, 10:46 AM
lucky enough to have their phone number???
You got to be kidding!!
If they were not doing Bai Mei Sets I'd be silent.
I'd rather have a root canal as to have their number,matter if fact,I think I've already got their number.

Leimeng
03-06-2001, 03:10 AM
Having seen lots of their tapes, I conclude that they have a lot of very good material, with lots of value.
However, they seen to purposely perform the forms in a poor manner to prevent too much information from getting out.
Their girls seem to be very strong, and they practice hard.
If a person has sufficient skill in legitimate Kung Fu to begin with, they can pick up a LOT from those tapes though.
I can only imagine that training at their studio is a lot different in person.
I am not sure about there filtering Bagua and Hsing I through southern external flavours though...


Peace

yi beng, kan xue

Leimeng
03-06-2001, 03:11 AM
Having seen lots of their tapes, I conclude that they have a lot of very good material, with lots of value.
However, they seen to purposely perform the forms in a poor manner to prevent too much information from getting out.
Their girls seem to be very strong, and they practice hard.
If a person has sufficient skill in legitimate Kung Fu to begin with, they can pick up a LOT from those tapes though.
I can only imagine that training at their studio is a lot different in person.
I am not sure about their filtering Bagua and Hsing I through southern external flavours though...


Peace

yi beng, kan xue

MoQ
03-06-2001, 06:23 PM
An "experienced" MA can get ideas from anywhere, but this stuff pretends to be something it's NOT, and this group pretends to teach that which they know little or nothing about. Whatever a person picks up, you will put it down later on...

No matter WHO you are, they have some ****genously performed and ignorantly explained handful of forms FROM YOUR STYLE. Call 'em up... ASK a question...see what BS you hear... before you are disconnected.

tnwingtsun
03-07-2001, 08:22 PM
:D yeppers.........got a dail tone

sui-fuw
03-08-2001, 03:27 AM
why bother with GREEN DRAGON tapes when you can get "Limp ging"tapes.go and see f.t the "bai-si"he's also a filmstar all over the world.

tnwingtsun
03-08-2001, 01:51 PM
I already have seen enough,sui-few,where are yours?