Attitudes of a Boxer

[chinggong]

I have been taught in our tradition that a boxer (kungfu man) should never be bellicose, boastful or demonstrate his art for personal gain in public.

One should practice to better themselves and their brothers and sisters in the school.

One should speak respectfully of the seniors, elders, brothers and sisters in the pai.

A martial artist should not cultivate jealousy or envy.

Martial artists do not partake in gossip and backbiting. If there is a dispute, he should make every opportunity to resolve it

Jook Lum Mantis has practically become synonymous with bashing certain people on this forum. The same people crop up every 3 to 6 months and say the same things. I have kept a record since this site first came up and it has been the same groups that started the flame wars everytime.

Anyone posting useful information on Jook Lum is immediately followed by these same people making personal attacks. Anyone posting in their own name was open to insult from the nameless.

Even the initials "RDH" bring out the snakes!

Post "Hagood" and see what happens!

These people are disturbingly obsessed.

I would not respond to these posts but apparently it is no longer acceptable to delete this useless gibber and these trolls are free to say whatever they want without restraint.

If anyone else is as fed up with these kinds of posts as I am, I welcome you to add your voice to mine in asking the moderator to delete them as they appear.

Sure they rack up alot of hits for this site but those kinds of threads only do a disservice to the long-term, true martialists that use this forum. And they have made a bad name for Jook Lum Mantis.

I would ask that any "Sifu" who uses this site teach their students that they must be responsible for their thoughts, words and actions. Many think that the use of the internet gives them free reign to be derisive and deceitful without consequence.

I quit visiting this site six months ago because I was under the impression the moderator deleted inflammatory posts and I did not need to respond to them. Now it is back again.

If this kind of behavior is allowed to continue unchecked, consider how many young martial artists use this website?

To them, martial arts will be about the biggest fish story that they can anonymously post on forum.

I appreciate all the martial artists out there who take their time to promote their art (above themselves) for the mutual benefits to themselves and their students.

I appreciate all the martial artists who have shared contact information for people seeking to study various styles.

I appreciate all the martial artists who have stated the benefits of their training or the aspects of their training.

Thank you.

If inflammatory posts were deleted 70% of the posts might disappear, but it would make room for useful informaion.

Shouldn't the BEST kungfu forum appeal to the BEST of martial artists and not the BASEST?

[JAZA]

Don't worry about it, you can see here some infantil and inflammatory articles about Choy Lee Fut history, Wing Chun better lineage, if Chen is better than Yang Tai Ji, even who is the real heir of Bruce Lee's style and many others.
There is no way you can stop it, some CMA forum people like to discuss in this ways.
The main problem is that this discussion doesn't contribute to the good future of CMA and you will see more and more people doing Tae Bo and Tae Kwon Do.

[needlefist]

Chinggong

You are right in your sentiment, but its very sad if true, that 70% of threads would disappear if flame posts were banned from what you describe as the 'best' MA forum. By that account, if this is the best forum on the internet, then forums as a whole are failing martial arts. No wonder that so few teachers post under their actual names, if they post at all.

Change will have to come by example from seniors, otherwise forums will be led by flamers and internet keyboard warriors.

You'll either have to let it pass as insignificant, or, join with others (and the admin of this forum) to take responsibility for leading the changes.

Sadly, as is obvious to many, TCMA students follow the example of not a few of their Chinese teachers and simply express the same attitudes in this internet medium that they hear from their 'families' in other places and at other times. The attitudes of juniors all to often reflect those of their teachers and if the fountainhead is polluted then only pollution can come from it.

If people really are concerned with promotion of an art then it should not be difficult to resolve any differences that they have with one-another.

It would take some courage to start that process on an internet forum.

[B.P.Campbell]

Chigong
What you say is the truth. And I must admit that I too was part of the name calling a few years back, on this open forum. I did use my real name though. My teacher is Henry Poo Yee and many out there have thier opinion about him. Although most have never met him, much less studied with him, they claim to know of his art. Some have seen his demonstations, and make claims they can figure out his art by just a few minutes of observing it.

Im an old guy in the martial arts and have seen many, and have experienced much. Teachers teach many different ways for many different reasons. It cant be figured out without spending some quality time with them. One will make claims that someones teaching is wrong cause they themselfs have never seen it taught this way or that. Or dont understand it. Only if they had stayed around long enough they might have seen it was just a transition and not the written way. I have found that most teachers although have learned from the same person do look and teach different.
I myself have learned what little JL I have from Sifu Yee. But when i teach it, I look completely different then what my fellow classmates look. Some would think that we must have came from different roots. My point is, although we stood in the same classes and had the same teacher, we did see different things. And according to our ability to learn and our personal interests we did concentrate on different aspects of his teaching and art. Therefore it looks different.

It is normal to get upset when someone bad mouths your teacher, family, and or friend. Most of the controversy starts when someone makes statements of another teacher on an open forum, and dont really understand what they are talking about. They dont or wont do it to the teachers face or in public. They do it from the safety of a keyboard , with some made up name. This doesnt prove anything except they have thier own political axe to grind.
Sifu Yee has never incouraged me, or any other student to respond to anything said about him on an open fourm or magazine. He has always told us, that these people cant and wont say it when standing in front of him. And they have never, although he is out in the public as much as anyother JL teacher. His demonstrations and seminars are always posted in advance. He has nothing to hide.

I have made an agreement with your teacher not to make comments about him in public and he agreed to the same. And for the most part this has worked. I have ask fellow members and students of Sifu Yee's group to stay out of this bad mouthing battle on a public forum. And to the best of my knowledge they have done so.

I dont post on these public forums much, because the mention of my name or my teachers starts the keyboard boys posting personal slander. Some believe themselves to be brave by sending personal emails. Although better then posting on a public forum, still it doesnt take too much courage.
Chigong, even yourself have choosen to use some other name then your own. Which I dont understand? I do understand your defence of your teacher, but you would be much more respected if you used your real name.

JL has been hurt by all the bad mouthing between our branches and should stop it in public, if not at all. People will never agree on everything, and shouldnt. The art is much to vass to have only one opinion or way. Believe me, Lum Sang left much behind. He and others have taught more then one man or branch could ever see or understand. It was not just left to a certain few and it keeps growing everyday. I believe that there is much of this art to learn, and every person who works hard at it has something to offer. The root is always the same. It is what makes the art, the rest is just window dressing.


GOD SPEED

Bruce P. Campbell
166 Green Hill Rd.
Conestoga, Pa. 17516

[Jim Roselando]

Hello,


Wouldn't it be nice if there was a forum that required its members to use "REAL" names versus what is going on now?

I think the few minutes of checking it would take to verify its members info. would make it more difficult for the TROLLS to show their face and also raise the level of discussion. If the TROLLS were not around then much of the mudslinging would be gone and while there may be less discussion it would be of higher calibre. We hope!

Trashing talking is useless and it only hurts the Chinese MA community.


Regards,

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Jim Roselando
Hello,


Wouldn't it be nice if there was a forum that required its members to use "REAL" names versus what is going on now?

I think the few minutes of checking it would take to verify its members info. would make it more difficult for the TROLLS to show their face and also raise the level of discussion. If the TROLLS were not around then much of the mudslinging would be gone and while there may be less discussion it would be of higher calibre. We hope!

Trashing talking is useless and it only hurts the Chinese MA community.


Regards,

Yeah, the Wing Chun and Southern Forums are full of politics, slander and other mess superfluous to the martial arts. Hopefully, this will change soon.

In response to your comment about real names, budoseek.net does require you to use your real name. The problem, however, would be verifying it.

[HuangKaiVun]

I don't know about the "no demonstration" thing myself.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with demonstrating one's art.

Throughout history, honorable sifu have made careers out of giving demonstrations. Heck, we even have entire tournaments of sifus presenting their stuff for the mass public to see.


I've been challenged and criticized as much as anybody on this forum, but not one single troll from here has dared walk through my open door to test my hands.

They can come anytime, as far as I'm concerned.

THAT is the Chinese kung fu way.

[chinggong]

HKV,

Demonstrating ones art to promote the art is different than demonstrating the art for personal gain.

To simplify, it means do not "show off".

Many times the best martialists show the list. Many times those that have the least make the biggest show.

Respect to anyone who promotes their art being firm but humble.

I hope the moderator will take pride in cleaning up this forum. Thanks in advance.

[Drake]

I love all of you :)

[B.P.Campbell]

I guess there has been some negative posts here that I missed. Judging by some that were left here. My bet would be they didnt use any real names.
I agree that demos are only good if not done for personal gain. (showing off) In my time spent in the martial arts I have been to many demo's. Some to show the art, some to promote schools or styles. Some good, some bad. Although I personally think all martial arts should be taught in a basement, or some hidden location, I do realize the importance of promoting ones art in this day and time.
There are many different types of demostating the arts. Some do it at tounaments, some at New Year celebrations, some by tapes, magazine articles, and some by web-site, amoung many other ways. All people will judge for themselves if they think these ways are for the art or for the personal gain. There will always be a difference in opinions. No one but the people demonstrating will know for sure if it is for the art or personal gain. The rest will only judge.
I myself dont much care about what others think. I dont spend a lot of time on things I cant change. People wont agree with you all the time and you cant expect it.

I agree that I dont like show offs no matter what subject. I do believe that martial artists should be humble, but not to a fault. I never needed the martial arts to teach me respect for others, my parents done that, as I did for my kids.
And along with respect a person should know who he is talking with, rather inter net or in person, and if not he shouldnt be taken very serious, and shouldnt ask for much respect. Because a person who is ashame of his own name, doesnt warrant respect, from anyone.
And cowards, well we all no about them.


Bruce P. Campbell

[keith johnson]

Posting the truth here does sadly cause some disruption between Jook Lum practioners. I am glad to see that there is an effort being made now to end the conflict.

[Oldyela]

Posting the truth only cause issues when it was NON relative to the previous posts. These guys that keep speaking on hagood are like your drunking crazed uncle who keeps talking about how you never paid him back the 5 dollars he gave you on thanksgiving 15 yrs ago at every family function. If someone has a problem with hagood go to alabama and close his hands. If not leave it be. The truth is already known.

[BearBear]

Wouldn't it be nice if there was a forum that required its members to use "REAL" names

now that would be good!! or at least isp email address rather than free mail anon. ones

the "warriors" who hide behind a computer remind me of a type of person i sometimes had to deal with in security .. they call u this name and that ,abuse you, as they wave a knife around.. say they gunna cut u up blah blah try and stab u to death BUT once u have them!! they cry (literally!) and beg "please don't hurt me, please don;t hurt me" ...

if there was a way to have all members verified - "length of study", "teachers name", "which school".. + an open forum for no smp students interested in smp.. that would be good!!

don't know how/if it would be set up.

anyways just my babble

BearBear

http://tonglongforums.cjb.net
http://pub75.ezboard.com/bsouthernprayingmantiskungfu

[mantidsquasher]

Heeyyyy Man-Tids!!!:D

Luka dem JOKIE-LUMP-PIE Man-Tids! Dem guz dey now all aboot
ya Mooo-Duck (quack-quack medisane man-tid) dey can teecher ya bout howda behive to won-anudder reel cuel:)

YA!!! lizten to dem lechter(ures) from 'Bamie!!!:D Dem guyz dey NEVER once upzet anywun now did-dey;)

Still... Tiz da seasun to be jollie, so..... SING-ALONG!

"Ching-Chong Merrily On High, in Bamie dem Bells are a ringin.
Hag-Is-Good is Kinga da PIE
So no udder name be singin
Hagga Hagga Hagga Hagga Hagga Hagga is King of Mantid PIE
Ching-Chong Merrily On High, in 'Bamie dem bells are a ringin":D

MERY X-MASS MAN-TIDS:p

[cutter]

....that squasher can badmouth hagood without getting a challenge from one of his "students" ?

[Oldyela]

Because MS is the universal hater! When has it ever said anything good about anyone

[cutter]

it seems that he says more about hagood than anyone else though. if im wrong, then maybe i just havent seen it since im new to this board.

yela, are you a student of louie jack man? i notice you are in philly.

[Oldyela]

.

[chinggong]

You can understand his garble?

[cutter]

the "garble" of MS makes as much sense as someone saying:

"My purpose is to point out that you are a self-righteous, bitter trouble maker. I suspect your purpose was to be one. Got a better explanation?"
and
"You babbled first shmuck"
and
"You are a bitter little nothing who does not know the tradition of Jook Lum "
and
"You have an overinflated ego. "
and
"You lay low and spit venom and if you ever showed you head it would be crushed under foot."

then saying:
"One should speak respectfully of the seniors, elders, brothers and sisters in the pai."
or
"I would ask that any "Sifu" who uses this site teach their students that they must be responsible for their thoughts, words and actions."
then posting under psuedonyms, and student's names saying things like:
"Keith Johnson, you are a liar and joke...Mr. Hagood never met you, you never crossed hands with him, he has never even heard of you...I asked"
and
"If possible, several of Mr. Hagood's students, will also come to MN with him...including me..."
what i have trouble understanding is this:
is a student to be responsible for his teacher's statements, if the teacher is pretending to be the student?

[3step]

is anyone besides me tired of all this?

[mantidsquasher]

Heeyyyy! Catarrgh Man-Tid!:D

Youz so **** clever MAN-TID, Ha Ha Ha, whereedder two Mantis's meet, then Mantidsquasher iz dere!

Mayde in ya own image Man-Tid:p

I'm az UN-real as U R :cool:

Gatta ya Green-Butts togeddar an bee Fiends MAN-Tidz...

Ya'll wreckin dat Sudden-Peeing-Mantid-Pie:mad:

[Killing Jacko]

get real guys!!!

[mantidsquasher]

ChingChong Identified!

Heeyyyy Mantids!

Quotie: "People should be held responsible for what they say or allow to be published on the internet or in the press":

Dat Chingie-Chongie, eez e-mail address is:

mfeld@knology.net

YEAH! Man-TIDS, go checkim owt onna his e-mail address.

Awwwww Chingie-Chongie-Mantid, ya'll shud be ass-shamed ov yarself!

Usin dat name fer yar e-mail!

Ya'll av uuz thinkin dat youz is Mike Feld from Deck-atour in Bamie

Dat Michael Feld, heez a descent l'll ol Man-Tid, he'd nedder post dar libel bout ****phobia onna nudder Man-Tid, he'd nedder lie, an say all dem MOOOOO-QUACK (Duk) stuffs now wud e

Dat's verie NOUGHT-TY of Ya Chingie-Chongie. All dem bad things yar say bout Keyff-John-Sun and BuFF-Foon Marc, Manny Rodreeguez and Lee-Wingie-Singie!

DOH!

Nowz ya gonna get dat nice l'ill ol Fel**** Man-Tid in alottta BIG trubble for libel.

But, maybe coz yar juz usin his name dar man-Tids will figgure owt jus who yar 'all REALLY are

Silly li'll 'ol Man-Tid dat yar R

[cutter]

Chingchong, mike feld, david whitley screen names.

ALL=Roger Hagood

[Diamond Talons]

Cutter you right & the posts are crap & thing is he is noone with no face & noone knows him so who cares what crazy no face guys say.

[mantidsquasher]

Awwww "Dimes-In-Ya-Talons":D

Ya'll donna 'know' Man-Tids, MAN, dey needa ta see demselves as udders see dem:eek:

Dem guyz dey all 'Sqaushers':p Dey Squash der own PIE:rolleyes:

Stupid f****** Man-Tids dat dey R

Sum o dem R OH-Kay, but da wurst are dem Joke-Lump-Pie pee-pull.

YEAH OLD MAN-TID getta on downe an a teacha dem dar way-tar-go!

If not who will?:confused:

[Diamond Talons]

MS you posts are a pain in my ass if you're saying something to me what is it & why you write like that & I show your posts to some young guys & some of them have good education with college even & they laugh & sing your posts & is that it it's a song or what. Forum people just read Chinggong post on this thread that he started & read his other posts & it's clear his teacher is not a Sifu & is a Si Fut & they all are stupid coward hiding dog trolls so maybe put them on the ignore list & then we go back to talking about real stuffs & this thing just going nowhere with Alabama Si Fut & his stupid trolls students & I think this is what they want to do is just mess up & interrupt with crap posts.

[mantidsquasher]

Heeeyyyy!!!! Tally-Ho!:D

Yar, I'm a pain-in-de-ass ov all dem Puffed-Up L'll o'l Man-Tids dat spoil dar reputayshun ov da Sudden-Peeing-Mantid Pie:p

Butt noh yu'all, yer seam tar one-ar du dar "write"-thing:D

YEAH cawl dem MAN-tiddie-winkies on-der puffed-up li'll ol mor-owls.

Get Fri**** shutta dem Bum-Boil-Pimple-Pie spoilers:mad:

Den lill o'll squashee can F*** Uff;)