What is your opinion...THIS IS NOT TO FLAME ANYONE!

[azwingchun]

We all have read various articles and thread about various systems of Wing Chun. Not to mention all the ridicule about various arts and what strikes/blocks one school may use from another. Please understand this is not a flame, I am just looking for honest opinions.

We have seen some systems use Phoenix Eye as a strike, I have seen some use Tiger Claw as a strike, etc. My question to you all as Wing Chun practitioners is, if this wasn't taught to you in your particular system is it wrong to use? Would/do you use these tools even if you were not taught them. Do you believe if you follow the principles of Wing Chun that the shape of the hand/fist matters? I have my belief, but am curious what others believe.

My next question. I always here Wing Chun people mention how we always use 100% or 50% or weight distribution of the foot (or somewhere there of). I was taught the 100% distribution, but while learning the Bot Chum Do I noticed there was a forward leaning stance where the weight is mostly on the front leg. Do you or don't you believe that this can be used with the empty hand fighting? Again, what is your opinion? Do you believe that this is only used for the knives or can be used at higher levels with the empty hands structures? Lets not forget the part of the stepping forward from the back leg, which many schools say is a no-no, including mine. Until I got to the knives anyway.

Now for my honest opinion, for what it is worth....LOL. I believe that the shape of the hand doesn't change your Wing Chun as long as the delivery follows Wing Chun principles. I also believe that the weight on the front leg can and will translate to the empty hand fighting, just not shown until one has a great understanding of the more used weight distribution and root. ;)

By the way, my Sifu always taught me that as long as you folow principles or Wing Chun nothing is incorrect! Though, I am sure this can be twisted in many directons.;)

[TjD]

if it uses bong sau, tan sau or fook sau energy, or a blend of them, then the foundation: stance, structure and power generation of wing chun, can be applied to it. then it's wing chun to me. different hands or strikes are just tools strapped on to wing chuns real foundation, which comes from structure, the stance and wing chuns power generation.

as to 50% or 100% weighting, it really does not matter much, as long as you keep your root and can use your legs apporpriately :D in chi sau, forms and sparring, the weighting is always changing; ranting about 50% and 100% just is more reason for one wing chun school to bash on another. i think saying 50% or 100% is just a starting point from a practicioner, and both point to the same end.

[Grendel]

Hi Azwingchun,

Good post.


Originally posted by azwingchun

By the way, my Sifu always taught me that as long as you folow principles or Wing Chun nothing is incorrect!

I agree with your sifu, however, it is easy to misconstrue this point to justify anything even though it be incorrect.

Some teachers and their students without the proper grounding in basic principles get off track.

Regards,

[azwingchun]

I agree, this is the partial reason for this thread. ;)

[PHILBERT]

Originally posted by TjD
if it uses bong sau, tan sau or fook sau energy, or a blend of them, then the foundation: stance, structure and power generation of wing chun, can be applied to it. then it's wing chun to me. different hands or strikes are just tools strapped on to wing chuns real foundation, which comes from structure, the stance and wing chuns power generation.

What he said. I do WT, and one of my classmates favors the Phoneix Eye Punch and highly recommends it, I perfer (if I think to do it) to use my middle finger pushed outward because the pointer finger doesn't work right in my mind.

[JK Walz]

I have always been told that WC is a principle and concept based art. The principles and concepts hold true no matter what "technique" you use.

I suppose this could use any technique as long as it does not violate a principle or concept. If a hay-maker puch violates certain of these priciples and concepts then it is out as far as a usable technique is concerned.

Simply put- Don't get caught up on studying the finger, your focus should be on the moon.

JKW

[kj]

Questions often arise about whether or not something is allowable. We might adopt a different vantage point and also ask why we might choose not to adopt or employ this thing or that.

One of the foremost concepts underlying my practice of Wing Chun is whether or not my work is fully integrated, efficient, and optimized. (Which of course it never is, thus the aim of continuous improvement.) If a technique or method fails to bring me closer to optimization, then it is typically weeded out.

In my former Wing Chun training approach we were taught the Phoenix Eye fist, though it was rarely employed. In the way I learn and train now, it does not fit well and we don't employ it, period.

Mileage varies on this of course. IMHO the key is to keep integrity with one's overall training approach.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[azwingchun]

Thanks for your opinions and comments. Regardless, what any of you have said, I have to say with an open mind that I can see all your viewpoints. I find it interesting what people have to say or may think about subject that revolve around this type of discussion. You know. When does the use of a certain technique change the style you use? I have an example, I was training a couple of police officers, one by the way was 5'11 and 235 lbs, solid muscle. To make a long story short, he got my head between his legs and began squeezing. He then asked what would I do? I told him I would bite him if I had to. He laughed and said but is that Wing Chun? I exlplained to him that I don't seperate or think, 'hey I can only use this because it is Wing Chun'. Especially when it comes to things such as pinching, biting, scratching ect.

So to get back to my belief, things such as a shape of a fist, scratching or even biting, I don't believe means you are not doing Wing Chun. And for my footwork question? Well, forget it. Some of you already use weight on the front leg.....LOL.;)

[nvisblfist]

As long as you keep wing chun philosophy and principles you are doing wing chun. Your mind intent will help you in this regard. A punch is a punch and a kick is a kick, but they are experienced applied and expressed differently depending on your background.

[quiet man]

My sifu sez: "WC is a style without a style, a technique without a technique". I'm not even gonna try to explain it :D ;) , because I'm not sure I understand it, but I think I have a pretty good idea...

Here in my school students are taught both Ginger Fist and Phoenix Eye Punch (not me though - I've only just begun searching for the bridge)...

[KenWingJitsu]

As long as you keep wing chun philosophy and principles you are doing wing chun. Your mind intent will help you in this regard. A punch is a punch and a kick is a kick, but they are experienced applied and expressed differently depending on your background.

Wow. Beautiful. There is intelligent life on this forum.

[yuanfen]

Depends