Intelligence and fighting ability

[MaFuYee]

reading posts by various people, has lead me to wonder; is intelligence a factor in determining a person's fighting ability?

i think it is, but i am not quite sure whether it helps or hinders.

on one hand, good analytical and cognitive skills can help a person to utilise effective training methods and strategies. - on the other, too much theory with little 'hands on' doesn't do anyone very much good.

intelligence can help one to avoid many confrontations. - the lesser man may frequently find himself in violent confrontations, not having the sense to distance himself from those types of situations; leaving him with much more 'real world experience'.

the intelligent person may be very happy and content, living a stable lifestyle, and enjoying many leisure activities. - the lesser person may find their lives to be chaotic and highly stressful; finding themselves in situations, which they seemingly have no control. - think along the lines of, 'pent up agression'.

the intelligent person may understand the benefits of exercise and proper diet, and take great care of their bodies, while the lesser person may not care as much, and may be living on a diet of mcdonalds, and tv dinners. - but, while the intelligent person values his well being, the lesser person may have little care for thier own well being, and may attack with reckless abandon.

the reasoning goes on and on....what do you think?

- I bet a funny thing about driving a car off a cliff is, while you're in midair, you still hit those brakes! Hey, better try the emergency brake!

[Water Dragon]

I think you need to be very intelligent in your training.

But when you fight, just let happen.

You may take my life, but you will never take my Freedom

[honorisc]

Everybody is some kind of smart. It's how a person thinks, not how intelligent they are.~

Very some such, perhaps might have been, likely say some, some not.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

sometimes smart people think too much.

this can actually take away from training when you're working on principles that require all feeling and no thought.

where's my beer?

[DragonzRage]

The problem is that intelligence is so hard to define. What if someone is a genius in math and science, but also finds sadistic pleasure in fighting or simply has a short temper? Does that mean he isn't smart? Perhaps he is intelligent in some aspects, but not in others. You can't reasonably argue anything beyond that. Just because someone avoids conflict or never fights does not make them intelligent. It may simply mean that when it comes down to the fight or flight response, their physiology tends toward flight (in other words, he's scared). I've known plenty of dumb guys who are afraid to fight, and more than a few smart guys who aren't. I know some smart guys who are really into competing. Having a passive disposition doesn't prove that you're smart, only that you're passive.

[nightair]

Well some people can be "book" smart and some people can be steet smart.I know people that are physical geniouses.They can control body like nothing.

DOH!!

[Mojo]

If it takes high intelligence to fight then Mike Tyson must be a genius.
nuff said.

[old jong]

Good one Mojo! ;)

Les paroles s'envolent.
Les écrits restent!...

[LEGEND]

why do nerds get beat up then???

A

[MaFuYee]

to clarify - i am talking about, on average; not exceptions.

GDA:
>sometimes smart people think too much...

but certainly, smart people are not incapable of 'feeling', right?

DR:
>The problem is that intelligence is so hard to define...

i'd like to discuss the well rounded individual. - the guy doesn't have to be stephen hawkings fer christsakes.

nightair:
>Well some people can be "book" smart and some people can be steet smart.

but those criteria don't need to be mutually exclusive, do they? - there are smart atheletes, and there are dumb clutzes as well.

mojo:
>...Mike Tyson must be a genius...

would mike tyson being smarter or dumber, make him a better or worse fighter?

legend:
>why do nerds get beat up...

actually, it's the 'geeks' that get beat up. - usually by those who don't know how else to cope with their own insecurities.

the nerds are too busy with afterschool activities, like the av club, to make very good targets.

(... or was it the nerds who got beat up, and the geeks who were in the av club???)

- I bet a funny thing about driving a car off a cliff is, while you're in midair, you still hit those brakes! Hey, better try the emergency brake!

[LEGEND]

LOL...good reasoning...one thing about bullies nowadayz...u pick on the OUTCAST...and they come back shooting...YIKES!!!

A

[Cody]

Someone who ponders about which technique to use and how to position, and is the opponent set up just right, etc., is approaching a fight with an intelligence that is out of place. The thinking intelligence which makes one slow, calculating, and seeing stars.
Cunning is a kind of smarts; being good at deception is another; and, there is the physical intelligence of having a body that can bypass the "now do this" instructions after a reasonable time of training and just do it properly at the right time.
If the intelligence is of a sort that allows you to figure out and connect the physical training and the energy training, then, yes, it works very much to advantage. That is a special kind of smarts, and can operate unconsciously. But, if you keep getting in your own way, and don't allow the mind to make connections without constant logical supervision, you're goin' down, intelligence and all.
I'm rather shocked at your terminology. "the intelligent person." "the lesser person." Whoa! Being intelligent doesn't make one above anyone else. And a lower IQ or more simple mind doesn't mean that wrong choices are necessarily made in the way you described. Where you getting these elitist ideas? You think intelligent people don't go for fast foods? You think all so-called lesser people eat crap? They don't have the sense to avoid confrontations?
The crux of your question is good. My answer is that intelligence can act for or against you, depending on other factors of your nature -- personality and character. If you know what you need to, and can practice it, to come up against a given opponent, you've got what it takes. Indeed, if you do it well, often, and publically, some people will follow your diet or whatever, thinking they'll be champs too. If you got an "intelligent" champ who likes Burger King, Burger King Rules!

[Xebsball]

Helio Gracie said that the dumb people learn Bjj faster than the inteligent ones. Because when the inteligent are taught a new move, they think too much about the move. The dumb ones just do it without thinking.

The Gracies are great on Bjj :D

-------------------------
"You will never need to feel weak, helpless, indecisive, not fascinating or ashamed of your genital dimensions. GOOD-BYE Humiliation. Bullies, Karate Experts, Boxing Champions, traffic wardens will melt to pulp as you master every situation."
Master Deltoo
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Stadium/2477/

[Aramus]

I believe there are different stages to learning martial arts, just as there are different levels and types of intelligence.
In martial arts when you first start most people are more rigid and blocky. As more is learned, some artist tend to anaylze the opponents move which of course sacrifices some spontanity. At the advanced level, no thought of technique or opponents movements are needed. Your body can react and flow with the situation as needed. You may start a few techniques or stop before you even need to finish one.

As far as intelligence, there are books smarts, High IQ, Emotional IQ, and the last one I can think of is Social IQ. A person with a high IQ or even a low IQ really has very little effect on a potential human conflict. A high IQ person may or may analyze the situation too much while the lower IQ person may or may not analyze the situation in depth. However, the emotional and social IQ will help the situation. A person with a high social IQ will be able to access what is socially acceptable in a given situation. This could be the bouncer who decides to pummel the guy or just look tough. This could be a student who simply avoids a potential situation or buys a guy a beer to smooth things over. A High emotional IQ person could handle the stress of the situation without letting the anger overtake him/her.
As far as quarterbacks and sports figures go...quite frankly they test high in almost all teh areas above. They have the best of a lot of stuff (physical, mental, emotional). Mike Tyson has great fight smarts...outside the ring???

[Aramus]

I believe there are different stages to learning martial arts, just as there are different levels and types of intelligence.
In martial arts when you first start most people are more rigid and blocky. As more is learned, some artist tend to anaylze the opponents move which of course sacrifices some of his/her pontaneous reaction. At the advanced level, no thought of technique or opponents movements are needed. Your body can react and flow with the situation as needed. You may start a few techniques or stop before you even need to finish one.

As far as intelligence, there are books smarts, High IQ, Emotional IQ, and the last one I can think of is Social IQ. A person with a high IQ or even a low IQ really has very little effect on a potential human conflict. A high IQ person may or may analyze the situation too much while the lower IQ person may or may not analyze the situation in depth. However, the emotional and social IQ will help the situation. A person with a high social IQ will be able to access what is socially acceptable in a given situation. This could be the bouncer who decides to pummel the guy or just look tough. This could be a student who simply avoids a potential situation or buys a guy a beer to smooth things over. A High emotional IQ person could handle the stress of the situation without letting the anger overtake him/her. This doesn't mean someone with a lower score can't learn from experience or other people's experience.
As far as quarterbacks and sports figures go...quite frankly they test high in almost all the areas above. They have the best of a lot of stuff (physical, mental, emotional). Mike Tyson has great fight smarts...outside the ring???

Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you want...man I have a lot of experience.

[DrunkenMonkey]

Intelligence in fighting is like a shell and a nut. Whether or not the shell is scraped, brown, black or pristine, its all the same once you break it off and see whats inside (with the exception of those rotten ones).

"****ed be the day that befalls us in a most hostile manner that shall compromise our Country, and ****ed be the great lengths at which are required of to stir our Patriotism." - Anonymous

[wufupaul]

Hey Aramus, do you have any journal results that show that sports figures test high in all areas of intelligence tests? I hope that wasn't just an assumption. I would tend to think that they would test high in certain areas..not all. No offense, but back in college, in my Psychological testing class, athletes were never mentioned as being exceptional in intelligence tests.

In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about
life. IT GOES ON.

[joedoe]

I remember a volleyball coach once telling me that an Italian setter had something like a 30 point IQ increase after he started training full time with the national team. I don't know how true that is, but it's interesting anyway :)

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
You're fu(king up my chi

[Aramus]

Psychology class
Hey, that is where they mentioned the study. Once was in high school '91 and once in college'95. The problem, which you probably already have learned is that there is sometimes only one study as Americans tend NOT to test another study group. The reasons are diverse: it's hard to get funding to do something that has already been done, if you get the same results how do you justify your study, etc. Are all athletes and more specifically quarterbacks (the study was more aimed at them) intelligent or score high in all areas?....NO.
Here is what I remember: They tested IQs, back then emotional and social IQ were very new (or at least new to me). Those who were simply born with that great physical build (not huge but natural athlete) had a tendency towards a high IQ (not genius but high) and tended toward the others being high. Factor in environment, the whole nature vs. nurture and you will have some more skewd results. This makes sense, if you are physicallly capable, do you need to be insecure?Remember a high IQ doesn't guarantee great grades or a great job or perception. The woman I read about with the highest IQ worked at IBM as a programmer. She scored the highest marks (at the time) in IQ.
I'm sorry, I can't find my notes...it has been a long time since I went to college.

[wufupaul]

That's cool, I guess you just saw different studies than I did. I didn't keep all my notes from college either, haha.

In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about
life. IT GOES ON.