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View Full Version : A New Branch of CLF!?!?!?!



firepalm
12-31-2002, 12:27 AM
I recently had a very interesting discussion with an instructor I know, he has told me that he has been revamping his CLF into what he may be calling Yuan Mei CLF or ‘Complete’ CLF. He has simplified and deleted a lot of what he feels are obsolete aspects of the art, primarily classical weapons & too many forms (although he plans to include some forms training he says he has shortened them & will be teaching far less of them). A ‘Complete’ CLF art in its’ simplicity he states. He has also greatly expanded upon the ground fighting / grappling portion of his version of CLF (which he feels has been sadly lacking in conventional CLF) & has also greatly expanded upon the kicking arsenal. He explained that all complete martial arts should teach fighting at the four ranges striking, kicking, seizing, & wrestling. Further his CLF system calls for far more apparatus training (focus pads, kicking pads, etc…) & body conditioning. He feels that his art is still CLF as it retains all of the fundamental hand skills, stance & waist training and more importantly the concepts & theories of the arts (ie; 9 gates of attack & defence, center line, slip attacks (lo da), trapping, etc…). I have had a look at his out line for the system and must say in the very least it looks pretty comprehensive. He has really done his research & has put a lot of thought into it. He is not actively teaching his Yuan Mei CLF art as yet but will be doing so shortly.

He also explained that he is not absolutely sure that he wishes to continue calling it CLF due to the politics but he maintains what he will be teaching is in fact CLF in essence. He plans to teach the Ten Seeds of CLF, as part on beginner training he will teach the Five Wheel Stances, etc… Nonetheless he knows he will encounter those that will say that it is no longer CLF due to his changes but at the same time he does not see it as a new art (he in fact shuns the idea that he is creating a new style) yet wishes to distance himself & his version of what he teaches with all the Chan family, Hung Sing & Buk Sing conflicts. He sees his art as a simplified and enriched new form of CLF.

So another branch art of CLF is born, should make for interesting discussion, at least in this neck of the woods.
:cool:

extrajoseph
12-31-2002, 11:30 AM
My two cents worth:

By all means, teach CLF the best way he thinks fit. If he tries to set up a new branch or even giving it a new name just to avoid politics, then he will achieve the opposite effect in the long run.

As for the name, Yuan Mei or "Complete" CLF implies others are not complete, now that would have its own politics!

If he thinks he has a simplified and enriched new form of CLF, just teach it. Time will tell whether it is true or not.

Arhat of Fury
12-31-2002, 12:38 PM
I have to agree with Xjoe, that it may be better to evolve CLF instead of insist on something more complete or more effective. Each school differs in the way they do things, even within the same branch, this is called evolution.

A question forXjoe is, Do you think that a student should be trying to evolve/change a style while under a sifu.
MHO is that the student should do things the way the sifu teaches and maybe understanding some things may be more efficient for THAT student done in a different way(to me thats called discovering yourself) But My beleif is that the student should wait until he/she is on their own(teaching) until they start teaching things their way. It seems like this would form the famous problem of " to many chiefs and not enough indians".
This is a general question, not situational.
What do you think.

AOF

iron_silk
12-31-2002, 04:26 PM
I assume that due to the potential politics giving the name of the CLf sifu wouldn't be a good idea at this time?

Well on the subject of CLf (or even kungfu systems in general) I talked with many long time practicioners and I found many of them are into the style for the art aspect rather than fighting.

I agree with that because for me it's fascinating to practice the different forms. The moves and the way it flows has real differences among different systems. I guess it's in appreciating the art aspect of martial arts.

Especially have doing some modern wushu and traditional northern, there is something about the flow of CLF that really works for me.

extrajoseph
12-31-2002, 04:29 PM
AOF,

We cannot, nor want to, stop evolution. Out of the vast amount of knowledge our teacher or teachers gave us, not all of them will be suitable or agreeable to us, so we have to select and re-mix to make it our own.

A good teacher will allow a student to evolve and change without feeling insecure and a good student will see the source of his growth came from his teacher(s).

I agree with you, out of respect, a student should do things his sifu does while under his wings; there will be plenty of time he can do things his way when he is on his own. It looks like Firepalm’s friend is doing just that.

Since his “new” style is still in the “language” of CLF, he should call it CLF, whether it will be a new branch or not, it is not for him to say; only time will tell. Changing the name just to avoid politics won’t work in the long run. Hop Gar changed to Bak Hok and Lama Pai but it did not stop the in fighting.

CLF is like Chinese, there is the written part - the “seeds” and the traditions and then there is the spoken part - the individuals and the branches. As long as we are using the same “seeds’ and adhere to the same tradition, the various dialects will only add to the colour of the language.

We should think of our survival like a tree, as long as we continue to look after it, it will continue to grow and new branches can come and go without affecting the tree too much. Try to chop off its roots and it will die, period. Therefore we should worry more about how to keep our roots healthy than how to branch off.

Happy New Year!

JosephX

firepalm
12-31-2002, 11:48 PM
From what I understand he knows that what he will be teaching will for the most part will still be CLF however he feels that is not truly representative of any the current major branches and thus not sure as to whether or not to name it as a differing branch.

In addition, while his brand of CLF has been simplified it has also been added to. He has trained other Chinese styles & incorporates small elements, as well he has studied grappling arts (Chinese & otherwise) and heavily incorporates. All of these things he studied since long leaving his original CLF sifu & then later incorporated. Yet he still sees CLF as the root of what he does & will teach.

He is still apparently pondering what to call the system a new branch of CLF or something altogether different (which he really seems to want to avoid as he doesn't feel he actually come up with something entirely 'new' or of his own true creation). He does to want to somewhat distance himself from the current regional politics and just do his own thing.

As mentioned time will tell! ;)

PS I & S - I'd prefer to let him let the local community know when it's decided how he will refer to what he teaches.

Serpent
01-01-2003, 03:40 PM
Your description of his "new version" of CLF, with all the aspects you describe, sounds like what I already know CLF to be. And there's more to it than what you described. He should just teach it as CLF and let it speak for itself, and good luck to him.