Shifu Hengxin

[Shaolinchic]

Happy New YEar everyone.
Is there anyone on the board who has had, or is currently studying under Shifu Hengxin? I am currently studying under him in New York City, and he is just amazing. If you live in the metro area, I recommend that you visit him. :)

[carly]

If I were in NYC, I'd definitely be happily studying with Laughing Buddha's mantis sifu, Master Tony Chuy. You should visit him. He's not a creation of the Chinese government's recent wu shu program, or a feshly-minted monk, just a real kung fu master. You should take a look and see for yourself.
have you seen a lot of kung fu before?
Unlike your school, Chuy's allows people to observe most classes - I see that H's website says "The Center does not currently allow visitors to view classes. Individuals interested in learning Shaolin Kung Fu may contact us to schedule a free introductory class."
Statements like that always set off alarm bells for me.
Sifu Chuy's site is:
http://www.northernmantis.com/home.html
PRAYING MANTIS MARTIAL ARTS INSTITUTE
12 EAST 32ND ST., 6TH FL. NY, NY 10016
TEL: 212/889-9030

Please use the form below to submit any inquiries or
e-mail to: info@northernmantis.com

[carly]

A taste of the bitter truth follows. Oh, and while we're at it, there's no Santa Claus, either:

"wusu2000
Junior Member
Registered: Sep 2002
Location: chicago
Posts: 6

I feel so sorry for you guys.
Let me start off by saying that the shaolin temple is fake. I'm not dogging it out, I am saying what you see and hear are only but a pretty picture of what the Chinese Gov. made up. Sorry guys/gals. I used to be just like you and think how I could join the temple. I have been studying martial arts for 13 yrs and talked to many masters from China and they tell me that the temple is a tourist trap. The monks are not even real. I even met some of them and watched how they train. They train in modern wushu. I train in wushu and I can tell you that's what they are doing. Not some mystical art from 2500 years ago. Chinese wushu back in the day didn't have 720 twists into splits and have half ass jokers doing modern wushu really badly. I admit some actually have some skill, but most from what I have seen and heard, its all propaganda. China is a very poor country. The people need money so they restore the temple after being torn down once during japanese occupation of ww2, and once in the Cultural Rev. Back in 1979 or 1980 there were reported that there were only 2 monks living there and when that awsome movie" Shaolin temple" came out, Starring my fav, Jet li, all these kids from all over China wanted to go and become monks. And then came the tourists. It really sucks that it came to this, but I have excepted the facts and moved on. I train very hard in wushu and traditional wushu. I am going to China in a year to live with some friends for a year or maybe even longer. I just want to say that I love shaolin temple as much as anyone but I know what is the truth and whats not. Sorry.



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09-13-2002 03:13 PM



TkdWarrior
Senior Member

Registered: Sep 2002
Location: India
Posts: 154
i'll go with wusu2002 on shaolin temple...it's booby trap or honey pot u can say... if u r really intrested try
china:
Chen Family for Chen tai-Chi
bejieng
Ma shanxu for Ba-gua

san deigo california
shrfu Mike patterson and Sifu park bok nam, bruce kumar frantiz

-TkdWarrior-


__________________
Knowledge, Like sex is better when it's free



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09-13-2002 05:15 PM



jun_erh
grandmasteroftheobvious

Registered: Dec 1969
Location:
Posts: 437
spar one of them then say that **** yo. Personally, I wouldn't want to be a monk. Doing chores all day and going to sleep at like 8:30 is a great way to live till a ripe old age, bored out of your ****



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09-16-2002 01:24 PM



GeneChing
Associate Publisher

Registered: Dec 1969
Location: Fremont, CA, U.S.A.
Posts: 1600
About time
We haven't had this discussion for a while and I was beginning to wonder.
Shaolin Temple is a tourist trap but so is Bodh Gaya and many other sacred sites. Does that invalidate it?
Most schools in modern China teach wushu - few are exclusively traditional. Does that invalidate all of them?
The truth is more complicated that saying 'Shaolin is fake.' Do some research beyond what you have heard.

[Shaolinchic]

First of all, Shifu's class is held in a theatre building, and there isn't much room for spectators, but a few people have watched and have never been turned away. When he used to be with the Shaolin Temple in Queens, NY, we had visitors all the time. And yes, Shifu used to be a buddhist monk, but notice that he doesn't call himself a monk any longer. He isn't pretending to be. And I don't really care whether he is a monk or not. He is an amazing martial artist and a great teacher. He doesn't show us fancy wushu moves; just real shaolin kung fu. Maybe you shouldn't judge until you take a class with him.

[carly]

would study his art if you didn't get to say that you studied in association with the shaolin temple, and if you trained in plain track suits or shorts and t-shirts instead of shaolin uniforms?
Have you seen a lot of real traditional kung fu and compared it to wu shu and know the difference?
I'm glad that you're enjoying what you're studying but remember the audience you are talking to here - it's Chinese martial artists, not people with no idea about what is what.
You really should check out Chuy's school for your own interest.

[Shaolinchic]

We don't say we study in association with the Shaolin Temple. He is no longer part of the temple. But yes, the uniform used to be basic kung fu pants and a tv shirt, and yes, I know the difference between wushu and kung fu. I have been studying martial arts for 12 years. All I'm saying is don't judge someone you know nothing about.

[carly]

about the recently-created Shaolin temple from naive beginners in the last few years.
You don't have to be formally associated with the so-called shaolin temple, but your sifu's bio and the uniforms you wear associate the school closely enough.
I'm glad that you're enjoying what you're studying but remember the audience you are talking to here - it's Chinese martial artists, not people with no idea about what is what.
You really should check out Chuy's school for your own interest.

[Dude]

sounds like your trying to sell your school more than anything else carly besides i train under a shaolin monk and beleve me he is the real thing he dousnt like what the temples become. just remember there was real monks and real kungfu before the government steped in,what we learn is definately not wushu no fancy kicks or hand movments just hard work and real kung fu
and im sure shifu hengxin is the same

ps hes only a monk if he has the prefix shi (pronunced shur)

[Shaolinchic]

That's right. He used to be Shi Hengxin, but because he is no longer a monk, now he just goes by Shifu. And you're right about the hard work Dude. I have been in MA a long time, and this is the best workout I have ever gotten.

[GeneChing]

Those that belittle modern Shaolin monks should definately check out Hengxin. His ditang is extraordinary and accordingly, so is his drunken style. (http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/pr-gs003.html) He originally came out with Shi Guolin in Flushing, but then left the Buddhist order for personal reasons. After all, not everyone wants to be a monk for their whole life. This is true in all cultures that have monastic practices.

[carly]

I am a big fan of ditang and drunken forms and I am sure that this sifu is a very talented martial artist.

[ngokfei]

I have been lucky to have studied at the Guo Lin's school in Queens new york. Mainly only interested in the Qi Gong being taught but since the kung fu was at no extra cost I did it too.

Alot of "modern Wushu" basics taught in conjunction with traditional and contemporary influenced forms.

Heng was one of the instructors who taught the classes but he really was only interested in "showing off". Did alot of arials and stuff but when I tried to ask about applications to the technqiues in the small hung fist he had no idea and showed only simplistic applications.

Gene: your article with the instructor from shaolin had the real deal.

Guo Lin on the other hand is very knowledgeable and "to me" not egoed like heng. He shared his information freely without the usual ass kissing.

I remember heng hanging outside with youngerstudents showing off his (new sunglasses, jacket and watch) He was supposed to be a monk but it was obvious that he had no idea or desire to follow that path

So its no suprise that he broke away to make it on his own. Money makes the world go round. Now love to see if any could answer these questions:

1. How did he get in the country - religious freedom???
2. Now that he is no longer a monk and without a sponsor shouldn't his visa be voided and sent back to china??
3. Does he pay his taxes??? Probably not since most of these new teachers from china tend to forget this. Love to know what his reported job is to the IRS is

Now most are thinking I have a grudge or an ax to grind and your correct. We here in the USA (all nationalities) are proud to be citizens or resident aliens and pay our taxes. why should we let all these individuals get into the countryunder false and decieving methods and get away with making money and not supporting the USA.

Just a warning to all you "non tax paying individuals out there. The IRS is looking into the undeclared income of martial arts teachers. And one of the methods being used to track this is the listing of seminars in the MA magazines as well as the articles them selves.

so look out Mr. IRS may showup at your seminar and seize you money!!!! I hear it started with one of the Chen Village Tai Chi teachers who had his visa taken away.

O Mi To Fu

eric

[Shaolinchic]

The Hengxin I learn under never shows off and never shows us ariels. We learn all the basics to the form, and explains things whenever asked a question. And so what if he decided not to follow a monastic path. Does that make him any less of a person?
You just sound like an angry person.

[Mizong_Kid]

KUNG FU IS KUNG FU, LEAVE ALL THIS POLITICAL AND RELIGIOUS BULL$HIT OUT OF IT!

ITS SO ANNOYING TO READ THREADS WHERE PEOPLE DECIDE TO BRING IN POLITICS AND RELIGION OR WHATEVER!

[richard sloan]

...should refrain from offering comments like that.

He came to the U.S. Just like many, for WHATEVER reason- that's not your place to judge. Aren't people allowed to change? The kind of Buddhist orthodoxy it seems Shi Guo Lin is interested in would not hold my own for very long. Maybe Heng Xin feels a different path is now his. Ever read "A Monk in the World?"

That would be a matter of flavor and not economic opportunity.

I do not know Heng Xin, never trained with him, but this reminds me of my 5th grade teacher. In the library one day I was drawing army men. She thought this was innapropriate use of the library and took away my drawing! What a *****! I carried this impression with me for the next year, and when it came time for the first day of school and teacher student assignment I felt the cold hand of death grip my heart because I was assigned to this biatch's class. And you know what I found out Eric? I found out I was right. She was a total biatch. So what's the point? The point is I based almost a year's worth of belief on someone and did not really know. She *could* have been sweet as pie...

Does he pay his taxes? This is a new one. Do they come to full stops at stop signs may be next...

[Shaolinchic]

Not really sure what paying taxes has to do with a kung fu board anyway. And I'm sure Shifu Hengxin got into the country the same way Shi Guolin got in Eric.

[Tsingtao]

Eric you definitely sound like your holding a grudge. Why so hostile? I trained at the Shaolin Temple Overseas headquarters for a few years with HengXin Shifu and Guolin Shifu and never saw Hengxin "show off". As far as Hengxin "showing off", I think that might have to do with his age and ability. If you know Hengxin at all you would know that he is quite young and very energetic. When he came to the US in 96 he was very young and didn't have much experience with western life. Could you imagine being like 19 or 20 and coming to America from a remote part of China? There are BEAUTIFUL GIRLS everywhere you go and not many other people like you (Buddhist monks). I personally think that Shifu did the absolute right thing by leaving the order and pursuing his own life.

As far as Hengxin "showing off his (new sunglasses, jacket and watch)". Again he’s a young man and never had the pleasure of having some of these things before. So I could see him being excited about something like this. In my years of training at S.T.O.H , Hengxin Shifu was always having fun with the kids in between classes (he’s a kid himself). But when it was time for class the playing and joking around stopped and Shifu became very serious. Monks can’t have fun?

There is no doubt about it Hengxin Shifu and Guolin Shifu are totally different. BOTH GREAT PEOPLE I MIGHT ADD. Look at the age difference. Look at the physical size difference. Look at their primary focus (Buddhist/martial). What is more enticing to a young man, soaring through the air or Xiao hong chaun? Of course the youngster is going to soar. Because he enjoys to soar. That means he doesn’t know traditional kung fu as well?

"Money makes the world go round".......... unfortunately your correct. Did you ever look at S.T.O.H's old website or even there new one for that matter. Never did it ever even mention Hengxin or any of the other teachers. But Guolin is everywhere. When Hengxin Shifu was there he was Guolin Shifu's HELPER. Many times I remember seeing Hengxin Shifu cleaning up after people, doing chores and still teaching every single class 7 days a week. What is his benefit? How is that making his life better? Would you want to be a "hepler" for ever?

"Taxes"...... what’s that got to do with kung fu? Of course he needs to pay taxes just like the rest of us. He doesn’t have the ability to hide behind a not for profit organization.

I'm sorry for such a long post but Hengxin Shifu is a GREAT person and should not be looked down upon because he decided the monk life was not for him anymore. If any place in the world could change the life of a young person best, it would have to be the US. I commend Hengxin Shifu for his actions and being honest to himself and everyone else.



Amituofu

[ngokfei]

Well I knew it would be a eye opening topic.

"Angry" not at all "Concerned" yes by all means.

heng knew what he was getting into when he became a monk in China. Or is it that China just dresses people up as monks? Kindof reminds me also of Yan Ming who still puts himself out there as a Monk and in turn has a "New Wife" and a "New Child" Pity he doesn't have any morals to take care of his first family or has that changed.

And why shouldn't Heng be Guo Lin's assistant/helper/housekeeper. Been around alot of religious people as well as some very "traditional" martial arts instructors and you'll see the individuals under their instruction doing such tasks. Nothing new to that. Oh yeah, I guess coming the the US just makes all that "tradition" that everyone claims to have just dissappear.

TAXES is a big jump but again it relates to the underlying reason why all these so called "Masters" from china are coming here. Take a look at our sponsors magazine over the past year and you'll see all these new masters surfacing. Who are they really and what is there background. We just take there word, huh. Most are just average in the scope of the martial arts world of china. But we jump and do flips just because we are told they are something special. Time will tell I guess.

Taxes is just the method to keeping the playing field of business fair. Why should one school set themselves up professionally be undercut by a newbie who is ripping off the gov't. I've trained with many instructors like this but now with the gov't in the state that it now finds itself in my eyes have opened up just a little.

lets keep going.\

eric:D

[Shaolinchic]

This is so beyond the scope of my original post. Not really sure why it has gone down this path but it's kind of stupid. You know, as hard it is to believe, there are people who were born and bred in this country that don't pay their taxes. Could be the guy working in the cube next to yours. What this has to do with kung fu training is beyond me.
Regarding the point about did Hengxin know what he was getting into when he became a monk: hasn't a catholic priest ever left the priesthood? Are they bad people for this? Does it change their beliefs? No. I'm sure Shifu is still a devout Buddhist. But maybe they just realized that life wasn't for them.
I too noticed that Shifu did all the teaching at the STOH, and got none of the credit. Good for him for breaking away. Becoming a monk does not mean becoming someones slave.

[Tsingtao]

Eric,

I'm not sure what your getting at? Is Hengxin a bad person because he isnt a monk anymore. If anything I would think he is a better person for telling the truth and moving on with his life.

You worte, "Heng knew what he was getting into when he became a monk in China." Your right he did. He was also very young 18(?) and couldn't see that far into the future. Can you Eric? Or could you when you were that young?

As far as "why shouldn't Heng be Guo Lin's assistant/helper/housekeeper" Theres nothing wrong with that. If thats what you want to do for the rest of your life. He did it for a LONG time and I guess decided he didn't want to do it anymore. Its kinda like parents. You live with your parents while your growing up and then move out to improve your life. Get a job, start your own family, and make a better life for yourself instead of letting your parents do everything for you. Are you saying that because he doesn't want to be a housekeeper for the rest of his life hes not traditional?

Your absolutely right when it comes to these masters that are surfacing. But whats that got to do with Hengxin?

I totally agree about taxes. Everyone should pay taxes. Its part of life in the US or anywhere I guess. But again what does that have to do with Hengxin? Anyone thats self employed needs to estimate there income and pay tax on it. Some people don't realize or know how to go about doing that right away.

You worte, Taxes is just the method to keeping the playing field of business fair. Why should one school set themselves up professionally be undercut by a newbie who is ripping off the gov't." Doesn't it take time to setup a professional business? Some schools hide behind there tax free charity to get around taxes. But again whats that got to do with Hengxin?


Amituofu

[richard sloan]

...when life seems tumultous and there's a lot of instability, you know, you actually see a crack of hope for people, maybe you meet someone doing a good deed and it shakes you up, hey it's happened to me! you know you don't expect to see it- you can always come back to the internet shaolin forums and have that dumb hope squashed...it's nice to see people anonymously keeping the rumor mill churning and slitting each other's shaolin throats...

Eric, if you train or have made Shaolin a part of your life there are bigger issues to put your time behind than trying to understand what makes another person tick. If I were a student of Guolin's I'd be more perturbed about Steve DeMasco for instance...

So Hengxin left the monastic life. What is that anyway? Try thinking outside the box once in a while. People think life changes within a temple or monastery. Well it doesn't. If anything, it MAGNIFIES it.

Why shouldn't you wish the best life possible for someone and encourage them to pursue it? As far as coming to the U.S. if you're not native american you're on thin ice, I'm afraid to say. People change over time, in buddhism it's actually no big thing. In Thailand many monks have jobs and families, and live secular for a few months out of the year then come for three months to the temple. So many of the monks were dropped off as kids, and in the past many came later in life. In Japan many retire to monasticism, or at least they did. People fall in love, they get married, they get divorced. They get a jacket, a watch, clothing they never had before, maybe other nice things.

So what...now they don't match the idea you have. I remember seeing Thich Naht Hahn on a cell phone. Wow did that throw people...they didn't like it.

Those people, I would wager, are still on the phone...while TNH hung it up long ago...

[mortal]

Hengxin is humble, open and down to earth. His kung fu is extraordinary. That is why Goulin picked him to come over and teach. It burns me up to read negative posts. Amitabha
Anthony Arrigo

[richard sloan]

How are things man? Well I hope...

[GeneChing]

... not always a monk. Most Americans have little idea of monastic life, especially for Buddhist monks. It is possible to become an monk, then leave, return to ordinary life. In fact, almost every young man in Thailand does this very thing - lives as a monk for a year or two then returns to a normal life.

Many of the Shaolin monks are there just for the martial arts, which is just as well since few of their critics are Buddhist. After a period, they leave the order. Zhang Lipeng (formerly Shi Xingpeng) did just that and it looks as if Hengxin is doing the same. There's nothing wrong with that. They still keep their kungfu, and their Buddhist beliefs for the most part, they just opt not to continue with an ascetic's life.

As for Hengixn's relationship with Guolin, my understanding is that the separation was as amicable as could be. I'm sure Guolin was disappointed, but at the same time, he's seen monks leave the order before too.

[Songshan]

Well, I must say I have read some interesting posts along these lines but I guess Shaolin just isn't for everyone. There will always be people like "carly" and others. Shaolin has always had its place in the world of martial arts. A lot of these monks were training there way before Shaolin has ever been "big" here. Some of us are just very fortunate to live in a area where one of these monks settled down at. I have had a great experience learning from the monks and then I have met people like "carly" who feel what he does. If at all just try to enforce the un written martial arts ethics rule which is respect all styles an those who teach them. :p