Weightlifting as qigong?

[Cheese Dog]

What do you guys think?
Can weightlifting be qigong? It would be weigong (hard qigong) of course since it involves tension, but it seems to me it could still improve your energy flow. I have been experimenting for a few weeks with this. I am keeping my tongue on the roof of my mouth to connect the governor and conception vessels and in between sets/exercices I stand relaxed and visualize the exess chi from the areas being worked flowing into my dan tien. Yeah, I lift at home so I'm not getting funny looks from other gym patrons.
I would appreciate any comments/advice/etc. anyone may offer.

[Cheese Dog]

Anyone at all?

[Repulsive Monkey]

You are more likely to do yourself damage than good. I remember reading an article from an American Taiji magazine which had an article about this bloke who was convincved that the best way forward for Taiji was weightlifting. I have the article somewhere and it was complete rubbish. How can one circulate Qi through constricted and tense muscle? By visualising it and drawing qi through hindered cavities in the body I beleieve that you will have an excellent chance of causing loads og Qi stagnation in the muscles. Qi needs absolute relaxation too pass unhindered through the conduit of the tissues surrounding the meridian, and tension is the worst thing possible for it. Hard qigong usually draw it in the and then aply tension to held breath/qi to compact it, and some would say that this is not the best either. However I feel messing about with tensi0on orientated exercise and Qi-gong may cause more problems than break-throughs. From a TCM point of view it would also seem like the perfect recipie for Liver Qi Stagnation and you don't want that!!?
I think it would be best to keep them seperate for healths sake.

[Cheese Dog]

Thanks RM, very interesting. Can you post that article when you get a chance?

[Repulsive Monkey]

Of course, no problem.

[Former castleva]

Weightlifting will do lots of proven good on it´s own I think.
It has good internal benefits (cardial etc.) besides external growth.
Visualization can be important to keep you interested,in my humble opinion you would have to worry about not biting your tongue (where ever it will be located) which could cause you drop a weight on your foot and cause a fracture (in tcm,seen as qi stagnation too) ;)
I understand RP´s view quite well also.

Proper breathing technique is very important in weightlifting too,if down to earth.
:)
Keeping an eye on that etc. could be associated as sort of qi-gong...enough of the rambling.

[Repulsive Monkey]

Internal as cardiac yes, but not internal as in qi cultivation. For sure it is a good external exercise as long as all muscles get an equal work-out but all that muscular tension will create qi blockage at some point.

[Former castleva]

I´m not sure if I read this right but I´m a bit skeptical about qi blockage (acid build-up,shortened muscle etc. is of course possible and evident if proper stretching and related activities are neglected) if we go there (unless you were talking about combining qi-gong and weightlifting,something which there is hardly any research being done on so I do not dare to comment)
The good thing about exercises like this,in my opinion,is that they cross "cultural" borders of health (namely,we can universally agree based on scientifical study that such things work)
Such benefits would include:
heightened metabolical activity
improve the efficiency of sugar use
strengthen the bones,muscles and connective tissue (is among the most effective means of maintaining bone mass during old age)
Strengthen the cardiovascular system
Lower blood pressure
Improve endurance
May help fight free radicals
Improve digestion
Strengthen the respiratory system
And so on.

[sapphire tygre]

Weights have done me more harm than good, I think. They increased my appetite without losing fat, they made my arms sore so I coudn't properly get a full workout from pushups, which strengthen the body more naturally. Forget getting a good workout from pullups, side pullups etc, because weights imbalance the muscles. I'm no expert on chi but I bet anything that affects a person with these negative effects could improve chi. Weights are overrated, and improperly used most of the time anyway.

[Former castleva]

Sapphire tygre,
I understand you,as many ppl may have had trouble with their lifting but I feel like I have to visit here now to note that weightlifting itself is not bad at all (subjective generalisations are dangerous for those who could know better ) like other refined exercises it must be done carefully.
It is obvious that many,like young men are interested in their looks etc. and thus may end up doing only certain movements for certain muscles often neglecting other things which,needless to say,results in some trouble.

[sapphire tygre]

Sure weights are not inherently bad, but I think they can cause harm to the joints, etc. Another problem is that you can go for along time until you realize you've damaged something. Many kids rush headlong into bulking up and weightlifting, encouraged by advice given by pro bodybuilders etc. It's a commitment you might regret.

[Former castleva]

"Many kids rush headlong into bulking up and weightlifting, encouraged by advice given by pro bodybuilders etc. It's a commitment you might regret."

Hehe,yeah and they may gas out very quickly.
It´s a long term commitment.

I guess at this point we just come to the great realization that any exercise can be harmful if done that way.Weightlifting can strengthen your joints a great deal,simultaneously.

[Ether]

I would have to agree with Repulsivemonkey. If for different reasons. I am not a great believer in Chi, although I do practise Nei Kung regularly. Weights and Chi Gung are very different types of exercise and I cant see a need to mix them.

They would complement each other very well if done seperately.

[Nexus]

I once stood on the side of the argument of "anti-weights" when doing chi-kung practice. Now however, I do a bit of weigh-training myself, mostly work with the arms, dumb-bells, and such.

A great workout for the forearms is a staff or a sword, though heavy weights give additional muscular strength to the arms. With moderation, weights have shown no major disadvantages to me, and have not hindered my t'ai chi training at the least. They must be complimented by relaxation exercises and some stretching however. After a lifting session, I'll aim for standing in embracing the one for 5-10 minutes and then wuchi for 5-10 minutes to relax some of the tension.

Weight training can actually have positive effects on the strength of joints, muscles & tendons. In addition it can have very good effects on your circulation if done properly, and anyone will know after even a short workout with bicep-curls that their blood flood increases.

Sure, you can skip weight lifting if you are concerned about chi-stagnation, and those concerns are valid for anyone whose deeply rooted in the TCM system, and may need extremely clear channels for specific purposes. However, in my experience, it has not hindered my work in healing or in the martial arts beyond adding some additional tension which needs to be relived through relaxation techniques.

[Cheese Dog]

Thanks for all of your responses guys.

I have thought about it alot since I started this topic a couple of months ago and I think if done intelligently it's a good thing.

[Former castleva]

"Weight training can actually have positive effects on the strength of joints, muscles & tendons. In addition it can have very good effects on your circulation if done properly, and anyone will know after even a short workout with bicep-curls that their blood flood increases."

Yep.
I have already posted but just want to put emphasis on the idea that any half-educated person should know this,this stuff works.
I know I may have sound disturbing to some people sometimes with this but to avoid reliable exercise for supposed negative influences should be met with healthy skeptism unless objective research is done. :)

[Vapour]

In my taijichuan practice, one you have reached decent level of understanding of mascular relaxation, we perform the form very fast or with weight on our hands. So weight lifting itself is not a bad thing but doing it without good relaxation is bad for you. Decent weight lifting book gives very similar advice. Don't lock your joint and co-ordinate your breathing while you lift.

However, note of caution. Taichicuan instructor I know once had a bodybuilder in his class. When they did a standing posture exercise where one hold both of our arms horizontally suspended in the front, suprise suprise, the body builder who had rather massive arms could do it only three minutes.

[Nexus]

Vapour,

To add another perspective, when I taught t'ai chi at my local University, I had 2 guys come to the class directly after several hours of bodybuilding and working out in the gym. Both built up the endurance and relaxation to hold postures such as embracing the One for several minutes without a problem. It took them the course of 3-6 months, but they only had great things to say about t'ai chi and the benefits they received afterwards. I do a bit of lifting myself these days and always follow it up by some t'ai chi empty standing and relaxation techniques. I have had no problems.

[Former castleva]

Yes,no problems with lifting.
Whoever claims it is universally threatening should reconsider seriously.

To post something funny I could mention that Yang Jwing Ming states that exercises like jogging&WEIGHTLIFTING are a "kind of" qi-gong exercise.

[pokomkno3]

weight lifting is qigong in my opinion