Is this good tai chi?

[_William_]

http://www.taichi.ca/videos/ChenFirst2s.mpg

I haven't done a whole lot of tai chi so I don't know what is good tai chi and what is bad tai chi.

[David Jamieson]

Hi.

That is "Chen" style. The particular segment shown in the clip you've provided the link to shows a lot of what is know as "silk reeling"

there are also examples of "fa jing" or "explosive power"

it is not the whole Chen Taiji, but it's definitely a great sampling of it.

as for what is good tai chi and what is bad?

well, Taiji should be fuid as water and rooted as a mountain. Soft as cloth and hard as iron. It is an effective combat mechanism when approached with martial intent.

bad taiji would have no root and unstable footing, the player would be "too" soft and would not exhibit explosive power.

Chen is wide, I don't know the Chen style as well as Yang. Yang is compact with good root and good fajing. However, Wu has good whipping techniques in it. I have not had any experience with Sun Style at all. I would like to learn more of Sun and Wu in time.

anyway, the best thing you can do is start, then continue :D

cheers

[Laughing Cow]

In addition to what Kung Lek said.

Chen itself has many sub-styles, and there are differences within each.
The style itself is rather big with many weapon forms too.

As to what is good or bad taijiquan, the opinions are varied as to who got the real goods.

In Taijiquan there should not be "good" or "bad" but more of a question if the practicioners can show and apply the principles of taijiquan.

Every practicioner will do the form and movements slightly different.

My best advise is to get as close to a Chen Family member as possible and don't get involved in the politics.

[Walter Joyce]

The clip is a portion of lao jia, er lu, the first form. All chen when done properly will exhibit silk reeling energy, as it is the fundamental skill of chen taiji. The fajin shown in the clip is just part of the form itself.

For an excellent overview of chen style, visit:
http://www.digidao.com/nhome.htm

For an excellent chen workshop, come to Boston January 18th and 19th.

[RAF]

http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/taiji/chenfake1.html

If you want to see good posture structure look at the photos of Chen Fake in his later age. However, keep in mind, he turns his head toward the camera for some of the shots and so you must be cautious when interpreting or commenting on a posture.

Please scroll down to the last paragraph. There seems to be a lesson many forget when starting out in Chen's taiji:

Practice must be done slow. Read about why you practice slow and note that the goal is not slowness. (the paragraph doesn't copy or I would copy it for you).

The first level of training in Chen's is to play postures and forms with no expression of power and smooth, continuous movement. In my personal opinion, that is where Yang's taiji stopped in its public presentation. The slow movement is a training phase for structural alignment, leg work, co-ordinated breathing and conditioning. This is what produces the superb health. We often call this level of training, moving stancework.

Nice post. I enjoyed the performance very much. Can you please post the homepage.

Also when you go to Jarek's website, look at the article on xiao jia, Chen style.:)

[looking_up]

http://www.taichi.ca/videos/

There is another clip for you to download...

In my opinion, the player really exhibits the "moving through a viscous fluid" quality that is hard to achieve when practicing taiji.

It is *not* just a matter of moving slowly, but actually feels like you are moving through sludge. Helps to develop that sticky energy.

[Repulsive Monkey]

For Chen style excellence I would prefer and suggest that contemplating Chen Fake's still black and white pics is a million miles better than the video clips. Chen Fake was pretty much peerless, and everyone in Chins knew it at the time.

[patriot]

Sorry, I'm not impressed.

[looking_up]

Does anyone know where I can find decent quality pictures of
Chen Fake demonstrating forms?

I know Jarek has a set, and there is some Chinese site out there
with a set, but the images are so small (~1.5 x 2 cm).

[Repulsive Monkey]

Looking_up

I've often wondered if there were any pics out there too. If you find any could place your source on the boards.

[Walter Joyce]

His student Chen Zhaokui:

http://www.tai-ji.com/chenZhaoKui/photo1.htm

http://www.tai-ji.com/chenZhaoKui/photo5.htm

[David Jamieson]

looking_up

this particular book is pretty good. I've had it for years since i learned Yang style and have been keeping it as reference ever since.

It's got some dandy old photos in it.

anyway, here's a link to it:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=1513443&sourceid=0100000030140613102498

cheers

[looking_up]

Repulsive -

Here's an article by Peter Wu that appeared in TaiChi Magazine.

http://www.geocities.com/blvovsky/ChenFaKeAndInstructor1.html

Nice clear pictures of Chen Fake performing Green Dragon Rises
Out of the Water and Oblique Posture (I could have the names
wrong).

http://www.geocities.com/blvovsky/ChenFaKe1.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/blvovsky/ChenFaKe2.jpg

I believe these are from the same set that Jarek's pictures
came from, so the whole set must be available somewhere in
a larger form. Maybe I'll email Jarek - I just don't want anyone
to have to go through much trouble so I can have a Chen style
souvenir. I suppose Peter Wu would also know, he has studied the life of Chen Fake closely, and he studied under Hong Jungshen (I know I butchered that spelling), the master that studied with Chen Fake the longest.


Walter -

I downloaded the entire set of Chen Zhaokui before. They are more than just pictures of a master performing pushhands - they are art, at least in my opinion.


Kung Lek -

I will check out that book someday. Are there pictures of Chen Fake in the book? Or any anecdotes about him?

[Walter Joyce]

looking up,
Agreed.

[David Jamieson]

Looking up-

The book is Yang family and so deals with the teachings of Yang Lu'Chan and Yang Ch'eng Fu mainly. No Chen Fake.

But still, as Tai Chi knowledge in it's cannonized form goes, this book is absolutely worth a peek.

cheers

[Laughing Cow]

Hi. Wayfarer publication has the following 2 Books on Chen TJQ:

CHEN STYLE Taijiquan
By Davidine Siaw-Voon Sim and David Gaffney.

CHEN STYLE TAIJIQUAN
By Feng Zhiqiang and Chen Xiaowang.