Progress in Bulking Cycle

[Ford Prefect]

I just wanted to share my progress here since I'm kind of excited about it myself. A little history on this is that I'm the epitome of a hard-gainer/ectomorph. I'm naturally lean and musclular. After a lot of intense dieting and training, I bulked up to about 185. I was happy with this weight for a while and decided to just maintain it.

Shortly into my maintenance phase, I contracted Lyme Desease while mountain biking and lost 30 lbs in a little over a week. Not only that, but I developed a neurological disorder associated with Lymes calles Bells Palse and became paralyzed over half my face. The Lymes made me extremely run down and lethargic and I didn't fully recover until 4 months later.

Determined not to let it keep my down, I hit the gym as soon as I could. I'm now 8-weeks into a 10-week bulking phase, and I now weigh 195 lbs from about 160'ish. I've put on some fat during the process, but I still have a visable 5-pack, so it isn't much. I will be cutting for 2 weeks when I'm done bulking.

I've done all this with just proper diet and using meal shakes (N-Large by prolab), protein shakes (Absolute Whey by Prolab), glutamine and creatine. The greatest part is that I don't feel like the extra weight as effected my speed or agility like it did last time. I still feel like skinny old me while doing althetic stuff except now I'm jacked. heh. ;)

[Suntzu]

if u'r a hardgainer than I'm a no-gainer… I think it would take me more than 10 weeks to get up to 190… I woud have to eat every thing in sight… tuff deal with the Lyme's… those tick's is some bad mofo's… good job… u must be tall or somethin'…

[FatherDog]

Congratulations, Ford. You've obviously worked very hard, particularly with the considerable setbacks you experienced. Good luck with the rest of your training!

[Ford Prefect]

Thanks guys. Sun Tzu, I was a no-gainer too until I found my niche. The N-Large shakes help tremendously. (600 calories/52 grams of protein) I also cut cardio nearly to nil when I'm bulking.

[Qi dup]

Right on Ford, you the man! How much more weight do you think you'll be putting on? How tall are you? Well good job man, keep it up!

[Lung Hu Pai]

congrats, that's cool, Ford!!! i was wondering if you could tell me, what are the benefits of glutamine? thanks.

[Ford Prefect]

Qi dup,

By the end of the 10 weeks, I'll probably be 200-205 lbs. That would mean that I'd be around 190-195 after cutting the excess fat off. I'm 6' tall.

LH Pai,

Glutamine is an important amino acid the body. It helps combat the rigors of hard training, dieting, and illness. It will help prevent muscle-protein breakdown, premotes cell volumizing, decreases recovery time, and strengthens your immune system. It also helps create glutathione, which is the most powerful antioxidant found in the body.

[SevenStar]

Good job man, keep it up!

[IronFist]

Nice job, bro.

How tall are you, btw?

For people using glutamine, be careful, it's an awesome supplement, but for some reason Optimum Nutrition's glutamine always gave me diahrrea. That's no fun. Only a small, 5g serving, too.

Hardgainers unite. The most I've ever been is 173, at 5'9" and 8% bf. This was on a very unclean (lots of daily pizza) diet of 5000 calories per day. Then I got sick of always being hot and sweaty (fast metabolism + tons of food = lots of heat being generated). Did you experience this at all?

Good going, though. Good luck keeping your gains.

IronFist

[Ford Prefect]

Iron,

I'm 6' tall and this is by far the highest bf% I've ever had. Even before I even started working out at all, I had a 6-pack and what-not. I've experienced eating tons of calories and not putting on any weight and being excessively hot. I think all folks with a fast metabolism have gotten this at one time or another. Since I started a structured diet, I haven't really had a problem even though it's proetin-rich.

[TjD]

whats glutamine for/do?

and ford, what was your diet like? i've just started a bulk gaining routine too for this semester - and i have the same stats as you did, 6' tall, 155 lbs :)

i'm finding the hard part is eating enough, rather than the lifting. although my program is making me ten times hungrier than i've ever been. i drink protein shakes 3-4 times a day (when i'm hungry and dont have time to make a meal). lots of lean hamburger, tuna/fish, cold-cuts, sushi, veggies and fruits.

any particular times of the day you eat more than others? i hear eating before going to bed is good for gaining weight.

[Kempo Guy]

FordPerfect,
Great job on the gains bro'. :D

TjD,
Not FP, but here it goes:

From my limited understanding, Glutamine is an aminoacid which aids in minimizing the breakdown of muscle tissues after your workouts, and helps to metabolize protein. I take it every evening as it aids in my recovery (as I work out almost on a daily basis).

As for diet, I would suggest finding out what your base metabolic rate (BMR) is and plan your meals/caloric intake around it. I've never had a problem gaining weight but for intance, my BMR is about 2050 calories a day. When I'm leaning out (which I'm doing now), I eat anywhere from 1700 - 2200 calories a day. When I'm in a bulking phase I eat 2900 - 3200 calories. If your metabolism is slow, you may want to decrease your intake by 10%, but as I eat five to seven meals a day it ain't a problem. Also, I tend to avoid fruits and cold cuts. I focus primarily on whole foods (except for my MRP of which I consume 2 - 3 times a day).

If you tend to walk around hungry a lot, what helped me was increasing my fat intake, i.e. instead of eating low-fat cottage cheese or yoghurt eat the regular version of the product. If you eat a lot of eggs (eggwhites) start eating a couple of extra egg yolks. Increasing fat intake will help satiate your appetite. Just be careful and watch your caloric intake.

Eating before going to bed... well, usually I take a low-carb MRP shake or a protein shake. It seems to work pretty well for me.

KG

[FatherDog]

Hard gainer here. I'm 6'4", 190. I spent most of college at 155. Since I've been home, though, I eat much more, so my weight has stabilized at a higher level. All I do for exercise are wrestling drills and PTP, so I don't anticipate it changing too much.

[IronFist]

How do N-Large shakes taste?

IronFist

[Arhat of Fury]

Sorry Ford, i dont beleive you. Theres no way someone can put on close to 30 LBS of muscle in 8-10 weeks(even if some fat came with it.. Hell, the human body can only gain 12-15lbS of muscle in a year. Unless your using steroids, its not scientifically possible.

This sounds like one of those BS "magical" weightgainer commercials.

Good job on rebounding from the lyme disease though:D
AOF

[TaoBoy]

Seems there's hope for us all.
I eat lilke a horse and still can't put on the weight.
I am starting a new program (weight and nutrition) this year - so let's hope for some gains.


Nice work FP!!

[Cheese Dog]

Great job, Ford! Congratulations for not letting the tick keep you down!

Can you post your workout program when you get a chance?
Thanks!

[Ford Prefect]

Ironfist,

N-Large shakes taste bad but not horrible. I just guzzle them.


Arhat,

LOL! I hope that was a joke. This is the second time in as many years that I've made gains like this, and I've never done any steroids before in my life. Either I'm some kind of mutant from another planet or your info is off. ;)


TJD,

I'm not sure if the first time I broke out of my hardgainer rut kind of broke my body into gaining weight or not, but the first time I gained weight, I was eating 5,000-6,000 calories a day. It was pretty bad because I was full all the time and I had to force myself to eat. This time around, I'm eating under 3,500 calories a day and doing fine. A typical day would look like:

Meal 1: Cereal & milk, N-large shake
Meal 2: (post workout) N-large shake
Meal 3: 4 hard boiled eggs, protein shake
Meal 4: Can of Tuna w/mayo, milk, protein shake
Meal 5: Friday's Potato Skins (frozen variety), protein shake
Meal 6: 10-16 oz of Chicken Breast, grape juice
Meal 7: (30 minutes b4 bed) protein shake

My daily supplements were: Creatine (10 g), glutamine (15g), Flaxseed Oil for EFA's (3 tbsp)

During the day, I'd snack on nuts and fruit, drink a lot of water, etc. The best thing about this diet is that I was rarely too full for my next meal and I was usually pretty hungry when it came rolling around.

[Ford Prefect]

Cheesedog,

The first time I put on weight, I was using Westside Barbell's conjugated periodization plan. You can find articles about their method at:

http://www.elitefitnesssystems.com

Heh. I even wrote some articles for them about it which if you search hard enough, you will find.

This time around, I went with the straight bodybuilder approach. I'm working out 3 days a week.

Week 1-6: Day 1-Chest/shoulders/tri's, Day 2-Legs, Day 3-Back/bi's

In this approach, I'd pyramid 8 reps, 6 reps, 4 reps, 2 reps. At the end of the pyramid, I'd use the same weight I used for the 8 reps and fail with it. I'd also superset that with another exercise for the same muscle group. I also did some ancillary work in regular BB format of 3-5 sets of 10-15 reps.

Week 8-10: Day 1: Chest/back, Day 2-Legs, Day 3-arms/shoulders

This approach is similar to German Volume Training. I'd do 10 sets of 10 in my main exercises with 30-60 seconds rest. I'd then do some ancillary work in 3x10-15 format.

Week 11-12: same as first phase

This will be my cutting phase. Basically, I'm just going to try to maintain as much mucle as possible while cutting fat. I'll cycle regular aerobic work with HIIT first thing in the morning before a meal.

[Suntzu]

I still havent gotten use to the mini-meal thing… it works for about a week than the food runs out… and I hate grocery shopping… plus the fact that I cant add weight… carrot sticks and such just don’t appeal to me…

I was using Westside Barbell's conjugated periodization plan. I just started reading and comprehending that style of planning… I like it… it might fit me better than the linear style… I have ADD when it comes to my weighttraining…

[Kempo Guy]

Ford,

Your workout seems similar to mine... I guess I was doing German Volume training without even knowing it... :o

Your eating plan is very similar to mine as well, although I'm restricting my calorie intake right now (to around 1800 - 2100/day) as I'm trying to lean out. I guess I'm doing something right for once!


Suntzu,

I hear you man. I had a really hard time with eating as many times a day as well. That is until I started planning my meals out a week in advance! :eek: These days I actually write out a schedule of meals for each day of the week that I try to follow.
This forces me to go to the grocery store once a week to stock up on food. And I prepare a lot of the meals in advance on Sunday evenings. Once you get used to the routine it's not that bad...

KG

[Suntzu]

I have ADD when it come to food too… but I get better when it comes close to fight day… that last 2 weeks I'm pretty good… but that because I usually snack on MR bars and salads and such… and being sooo focused on the fight(s) help me with my self-control... but right now... i have none... but a candy bar in my face i'm killin it...

[Ford Prefect]

Sun,

I hear ya, man. I'm on the verge of insanity right now from the eating plan and can't wait until it's over. Dietting is without a doubt, the hardest part of the whole thing.

KG,

Good to hear you're getting results from it too. Good luck with the restricted calorie dietting. I'm dreading that part.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Arhat of Fury
Sorry Ford, i dont beleive you. Theres no way someone can put on close to 30 LBS of muscle in 8-10 weeks(even if some fat came with it.. Hell, the human body can only gain 12-15lbS of muscle in a year. Unless your using steroids, its not scientifically possible.

This sounds like one of those BS "magical" weightgainer commercials.



:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Are you serious? What would be his motivation for lying about his gains? Where did you get the 12-15lbs in a year statistic from?

IronFist

[Qi dup]

I've had the vanilla N large, and it really wasn't to bad. It really reminds me of something, I'm just not sure what it is. It's almost kind of, 'cake-y'. Things I liked about the N large is that it's not overly thick like a lot of shakes. It's also easy to mix, and It didn't leave the sludge in my blender.

[Ford Prefect]

inic,

I'm in Boston too (Waltham right off Rt20), so if you really don't believe it, you are welcome to drop by, and I can show you pictures of what I looked like in August/September. The change is obvious even with all my clothes on. (I won't take my clothes off for you unless you buy me dinner and movie first)

A quick search on google on theories of muscle hypertrophy should be sufficient to explain how it works theoretically. It's 5:30 and I'm outta here. ;)

[IronFist]

Hey, I looked for the N-Large shakes today when I was at GNC (booooo). They had only like 5g of fat or something per serving, right? And I think 54g of protein? That's a lot of carbs in the shake... did they fill you up? Or do they just spike your blood sugar so you get hungry again in an hour?

Anyway, it was like $30 for 11 servings, or 22 servings if you only use half a serving. That's a bit expensive, but I might try them if you recommend them. Did you mix it with water or milk? They had chocolate and vanilla... which is better?

IronFist

[Cheese Dog]

Ford:

Many thanks for the info!

Cheese Dog

[Ford Prefect]

Iron,

That's why I use them sparingly. Two full servings accounts for close to 2/3's of my carb intake for the day. Those prices you listed are pretty expensive though. I pay $40 for a 10-pound jug that has 28 full servings. I usually only do halves so that's 56 servings.

[Qi dup]

I think this is the cheapest you'll find the N large. (http://www.planetdepot.com/ProductDetail.asp?Product=1128) At least that's the cheapest I found it. When I got mine at GNC a while back I got hosed too. 29.99 for the small one. They might try and screw you with the shipping on the site aboce. If so, I'd try here (http://www.sportsnutrition.com/home.htm) Those are the best prices I could find.

[IronFist]

Ford, you didn't answer my which flavor is better question :)

Qi dup thanks for the link.

IronFist

[Ford Prefect]

It's a toss up between Vanilla and Chocolate. I got the wildberry once and that was just disgusting. I usually get vanilla.

[Arhat of Fury]

Iron, I honestly have no idea what the motivation would be to tell fibs.

30LBS of muscle in 8-10weeks naturally. Lets just sit here and say that for a minute. aahhh


Bodybuilders who are juicin are lucky if they gain that weight during a heavy cycle(stack)
If you that was the case, steroids would be used far less in numerous sports.

Pick any bodybuilding/journal/almanac and you will read that the 12-15LBs is absolutely true. Remeber-consider the source.

Ford Perfect, if you did gain 30LBs of muscle in 8-10weeks(give or take a couple of pounds of fat) you should really contact twinlab or eas beacause you truly are a scientifical miracle. You would get paid bucks for endorsements.Especially being an ectomorph. I was bodybuilding for about 10 years straight-religously and all the books ,journals, almanacs or even magazines has never claimed this to happen natuarally.

Peace

AOF

[Ford Prefect]

Arhat,

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. The gains I've made (twice now in as many years) are nothing special or out of the ordinary. To think they are shows quite a bit of ignorance on your part.

[Arhat of Fury]

Ford,
Fair enough, im not into ****ing contests, so I will agree to disagree.
Good luck with your training!

AOF

[IronFist]

30LBS of muscle in 8-10weeks naturally. Lets just sit here and say that for a minute. aahhh

Ok, let's sit here and think about it instead.

30lbs in 10 weeks. That's 3lbs per week. That's a surplus of 10,500 calories per week (3500 calories per pound x 3lbs per week). That's 1,500 extra (unused) calories per day. What's so unbelievable about getting 1,500 extra calories per day?

Once again, that math goes like this:

30lbs / 10 weeks = 3lbs per week gain

3500 calories per pound x 3lbs per week = 10,500 calories per week

10,500 calories per week / 7 days per week = 1,500 extra calories per day.

Now that we've proved that it's biologically possible to add 3lbs per week with a good diet, let's move on.

Pick any bodybuilding/journal/almanac and you will read that the 12-15LBs is absolutely true. Remeber-consider the source.

What is a bodybuilding almanac? How about you ignore what the media says about bodybuilding. A better source is biology books. If you listen to the media, then you might think that the routines you see listed in Muscle Media actually work for normal (not using steroids) people. You might even think that the bodybuilders they feature in those magazines actually write the articles themselves.

Ford Perfect, if you did gain 30LBs of muscle in 8-10weeks(give or take a couple of pounds of fat) you should really contact twinlab or eas beacause you truly are a scientifical miracle.

Or he should be proud of himself because he has an excellent grasp on both diet and training.

And finally, I don't see where he said all 30lbs of it was muscle. Even if 20lbs of it was muscle and 10lbs was fat, it would still be excellent progress.

Thanks for playing.

IronFist

[Arhat of Fury]

Iron, all you have proved is that it works mathematically not biologically. Your body will not absorb and assimilate all the food you eat. You have to factor in what your body discards. secondly, what are basing those figures on, how would you know at what rate ford perfect's body asimilates at or at what rate he burns calories. Again, you have proved mathematically it works but not biologically. 3rd ly, with all do respect- it is obvious your knowledge is from books and not practice. Go to the gym, talk to a couple of natural pro's and talk to some juiceheads and workout for about 10-15yrs religously and then form a hypothesis.




Agree to disagree.

Good luck fellas.

Arhat of Fury

[IronFist]

AoF,

I'm not trying to be a jerk here.

Iron, all you have proved is that it works mathematically not biologically. Your body will not absorb and assimilate all the food you eat.

Um, yes it does. This is why people gain weight

You have to factor in what your body discards.

It discards metabolized food. One the nutrients and stuff are taken out and stored or burned, you go to the bathroom and expel what's left. You will not be crapping out food that still has caloric value left.

secondly, what are basing those figures on, how would you know at what rate ford perfect's body asimilates at or at what rate he burns calories.

Listen. I didn't say he has to eat 1500 calories per day. I said he needed to eat 1500 extra (meaning "unused") calories per day. Regardless of his metabolic rate or anything else, he needed at least 1500 unburnt calories at the end of each day.

Again, you have proved mathematically it works but not biologically. 3rd ly, with all do respect- it is obvious your knowledge is from books and not practice.

:rolleyes:

Go to the gym, talk to a couple of natural pro's and talk to some juiceheads and workout for about 10-15yrs religously and then form a hypothesis.

Are you kidding me? I know people who have gained 40-60lbs in one 12 week cycle. These are exceptional results, but the people who did it were very knowledgable and knew what they were doing before they started. Now realize that once you come off the juice you won't still keep the 40-60lbs that you gained. But that doesn't mean it's not possible to do so.

So instead of still arguing, how about you answer this:

In the above example with Ford eating 1500 UNUSED calories per day, for 10 weeks, if he can't gain 30lbs, what happens to the calories? Since they're a surplus, they don't get burned, and according to you they don't get stored, so what happens?

IronFist

[ricksitterly]

The absorbtion of your caloric intake differs greatly depending on how many times per day you eat ( be it a meal replacement shake or actual food ). This argument about the numbers game is really a waste of time. Metabolisms differ from person to person, therefore no single mass building/ losing diet works the same for everyone. Those with high metabolisms should eat at least 5 times a day a meal that consists of both carbohydrates and protein. Water intake is a factor too. Counting the calories alone is not enough, and you must consider what is making them up. If your metabolism is very high, you can eat a very large meal indeed, but the body will simply burn off or dump the excess calories, and unless you eat in another 3 hours, it will begin tapping into the muscles' reserve store of proteins and nutrients, resulting in a catabolic effect. Gaining comes slow for those with high metabolisms, and easy with those with low ones. It also depends on wether or not your are underweight, or already overweight. Your body will go to great lengths to remain as close to its natural, genetic size as possible. If you are underweight, you can gain the weight back very quickly ( up to ten pounds a week ). The closer you get to your genetic maximum weight, the harder it is to gain.

[ricksitterly]

sorry to post yet another reply, but i wanted to make a comment about the dispelling of unused calories. Peoples' absorbtion of food differs greatly also. Some suffer from malabsorbtion, due to factors like crohns disease, intestinal mucus, and lack of digestive stomache enzymes. People with this problem can indeed, have a lot of food pass completely through the digestive system, and be dispelled along with most of its nutrients. It just "goes right through" them. Differing from person to person, it is difficult to tell exactly what percentage of a food's nutrients is being absorbed by the intestinal walls at a given time. Stool analysis is one way to find out. If you really want to show proof of your "1500 excess calories" theory, start saving your stool in small doggie bags. Personally, I would rather keep things simple and and look at it this way:
When I'm hungry, I eat food. If I'm trying to gain mass, I eat lots of it, even when I'm not hungry. If you go hungry for too long, you will not gain weight. Put down the calculator and start eating.

[rubthebuddha]

that type of thinking only works for folks whose bodies only want how much they need. other people are naturally always hungry, because they have a speedy metabolism, or they need to keep weight on in colder climates, or whatever other reason.

ford is trying to GAIN weight, and, with his metabolism, he needs to eat more than just what his body wants. like gaining strength, you have to push the body beyond what is just normal use. when the body realizes that it needs more strength, it'll modify itself accordingly. this goes hand in hand with calorie consumption, as additional mass requires additional matter to work with.

just eating when you're hungry will only make sure your body gets what it's asking for. for some, it'll be a big bum, for others, they'll barely get by, and everywhere in between.

[Ford Prefect]

AOF,

Sounds good. We'll agree to disagree. ;) Sorry for calling you ignorant, I just hate to be called a liar.

Everybody else,

I eat 6-8x day depending on how hungry I am. Sometimes I have to force the 6 meals down, and other times the 8 barely dents my appetite. It's definately a battle of atrition as I'm hitting the wall hard. I'm even cutting the bulking short a week. ;) Thank God!

[Arhat of Fury]

Ford and iron,

There are a couple of things I should end on,
1st- If ford is a beginnner to the lifting world(1year or less) and has not hit it steady until this new "program" then maybe making gains close to this is not that far fetched, due to the fact that you mak all your major gains in your 1st year or so.

2ndly-If ford was way underweight at the beginning of this program then it would not be that far fetched, because the body, will go back to its normal weight with somewhat of ease, and then gaining a couaple of pounds is not that hard.

I based my statement on someone who has been lifting for a while(VETERAN) and has hit a couple of plateau's. If this is the case, then I hold my stance.


Ford-no problem on the ignorant thing,

Peace,

AOF

[Ford Prefect]

Hey AOF,

1) I never trained for mass building much before. I'm naturally skinny. The two times (one previously) that I've adjusted my diet and training approaches to gain weight, I've done just that: gain weight.

2) I wouldn't say that I was underweight, but I was incredably lean and lanky. ;) 6', 155-160 with an anatomy chart physique. I've definately softenned up a bit since I started and estimate a total of 20-25 lbs of muscle gained with an extra 10-15 of fat. I've actually hit a wall here at 195 and even seem to have lost a couple pounds in the recent days, so I think I'm plateu'ing. I hope to be 185 when I'm done cutting and am satisfied that the extra flub is gone, but we'll see. I'll make another post in a couple weeks about it.

[Arhat of Fury]

Ford, that explains alot. I can see how these gains can be made under those circumstances, Sorry for the confusion. I should have clarified from the gate.

You know I get plenty of excercise from jumping to conclusions, and knee jerking
:D

AOF

[abobo]

On how much muscle you can gain. I read this a while ago and I believe it:

http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=68

The amount of weight people can gain can no doubt vary from person to person, but this article gives an idea of the limits of the mass of actual muscle.

[morbicid]

If you really want to gain muscle quick why dont u just take steroids ??? Whats the big freakin deal here. You'll spend hundreds (Maybe thousands) on all that food, protein/meal shakes, joining a gym, etc. And you'll only gain a so much weight...even over the coarse of a whole year. I dont really concern myself with gaining muscle, but if i did, i would go out and get some steroids!! People who use them intelligently have minimal side effects, and besides, I've heard you can gain up to 50 lbs in 3 months. Surely using steroids for only 3 months wont cause too much permanent harm in your life. Addicts suffer because of abuse over long periods of time. I dunno... none of you will agree with me.... but it just seems to make more sense that way. In the 21st century, why should we rely on the old fashioned way of building muscle?

[IronFist]

Quotes by morbicid:
If you really want to gain muscle quick why dont u just take steroids ??? ... You'll spend hundreds (Maybe thousands) on all that food, protein/meal shakes, joining a gym, etc. And you'll only gain a so much weight...even over the coarse of a whole year.

Oh boy. Taking steroids instantly makes you huge, right?

When you use steroids, you have to eat at least as much, if not MORE, than you would if trying to gain while not on steroids. So, not only do you still have to spend the money on what you listed "all that food, protein/meal shakes, joining a gym," but you'll also have to pay for all your steroids. And more food.

I've actually heard of people making good gains not by using steroids, but just by taking an appetite stimulant instead.

IronFist