Opening move

[red5angel]

Ok, just for the sake of discussion, how would you guys approach a situation where you are going to have to fight.

The two of you are squared off, neutral positions about 3 feet apart, you have no idea if your opponent has any training and they are about your size. Let's assume a pretty obstacle free environment as well, say an empty parking lot, like the park in Tekken TAG. ;)

[MightyB]

Because I would want to error on the side of caution, I'd be moving a lot and I'd try to hide my closing in to striking distance and test him with a toe kick to the shin. I'd want to be within arms length to my opponent because that's where I'm the most comfortable, plus, I'd want to force them into an area that's fairly cluttered and dense without a lot of room to move.

[Nevermind]

For the past several months or so I have been practicing a Hung Gar set called Heart Penetrating Palm. As with all the sets I've studied, I try to find techniques that I feel would be practical in a fight. In this particular set, there are several sequences where you push off of the back leg (from a cat stance) and launch into a series of fire punches (chain punches). As of yet, I have not had a chance to test this in an actual sparring session. However, it seems like a practical attack that wouldn't give the opponent much opportunity to react. Pretty quick and overwhelming. I like the linear strike approach. Seems like it would be a perfect first attack from the square off. Has anyone actually used such an attack in an actual sparring situation? Is it as practical as it appears?

[MightyB]

About 7 or 8 years ago, I fought a Jow Gar/Wing Chun guy in a continuos sparring match at a tourney. He used the chain punch on me and made me a chump. It worked well because I hadn't ever seen it used prior to that. I'd say that it's a good opener, and you're right, it doesn't give your opponent any room to breathe. (Spoken from one who was on the receiving end of it once) ;)

[African Tiger]

If we're talking your average street fight - which usually begins with the posturing and shoving match - I wonder if a high attack would be the most effective way to open?

A friend of mine was trying to be cute and came up to me in that way. I kneed him in the balls to create some space, then I started chopping him down with leg kicks. :D Needless to say, he didn't do that again...

Truthfully I think that I will always let the opponent make the first move. Once someone commits to an attack there's no way he can back out of it, and me for one, I'm going to exploit the weakness of his technique...if he has any technique at all :D

[Nevermind]

African Tiger- Its funny that you mention that about waiting for the opponent to attack. I am still new to Hung Gar (1 yr) but it seems that the philosophy on fighting is to wait for the attack. The saying at my school is that "we don't make the first move, but we land the first hit". Or something like that. :D A snap kick to the groin would, in my opinion, be another good opening attack. Only thing is that it shouldn't be relied upon. I would definitely throw something behind it. Just in case it isn't the fight stopper we always expect it to be.

Mighty B- thanks for the feedback. I hope to test it out soon in our sparring class. If it works for me, I'll keep it in my arsenal for the Great Lakes Tourney in April.

[red5angel]

I am not in the club that believes in waiting. If the guy wants to fight I like to think of myself as a waterfall and him as the rocks at the bottom. I am going to rain down on him like a ton of water, trying to slip attacks past whatever defenses he can throw up. I may open with a front kick to the gut but the minute I step into it I am not going to back off until I am unconcious.

It sounds weird but I have been reading the Nordic sagas a lot lately and it seems that in those stories the guy most ready to commit to action and who is willing to follow through until his enemy is destroyed, is the guy who wins.

By the way, my fights have never gotto the pushing phase, because I never try to push unless I am fighting for sure and if you try to push me we are fighting.

[yenhoi]

Hide my reach. Try and punch him. Then see what happens and go from there.

:eek:

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

jab to the throat/simple boxing combos ... knee to the groin/knee attack combos ... any strike to sternum followe by uppercut/punch combos/knee to groin/knee attack combos.

i dunno ... i think it would really depend on a lot of different things, but the above are techniques i currently feel comfortable opening with in sparring.

[MightyB]

Are you talking about the Great Lakes Kung Fu Championships in Cleveland?

[Nevermind]

Yep, that's the one. I have only competed in TKD tourneys. So this will be my first. I really don't know what to expect. But I am sure it will be a lot of fun.

[MightyB]

Weather, Money Gods, and my wife permitting, I'll be there. I fought in the 140lbs San Shou division there last year and got creamed. This year'll be different. I've had a year to revamp my training and stew on what went wrong. If any of you KFOers want to fight me, that's where I'll be. Most of you'll have to lose weight though.

Nevermind, bring this up again before April and I'll PM you with who I am and what school I'm with.

[red5angel]

Your 140lbs Mightyb? That precludes me fighting you by about 70 lbs or so.....dangit!

[MightyB]

Right now I'm 152lbs. I actually would like to stay at around 155, but, when I start doing roadwork and stuff, I'll drop back to about 142. Been that way since high school. I keep getting bigger, but I don't put on weight. Kind've ruins my plans for being a bad guy pro-wrestler.

Nevermind, don't try the chain punch if you fight me, I'll f_cking kill you. Can you say Suplex? Yeah Baby!

Red5, you going to be there?

[Nevermind]

Mighty B- Suplex, eh? Actually, I wouldn't be in the San Shou division. Just the continuous sparring. I would like to try my hand at San Shou someday. Anyway, I'm about 190lbs, so I doubt we would ever end up facing each other. Too bad. :(
I still hope to see you there (and anyone else from the forum who will attend). It'll be my first Kung Fu tournament, so I am really looking forward to it. I'll be sure and touch bases with you before then.

[red5angel]

"Nevermind, don't try the chain punch if you fight me, I'll f_cking kill you"

That kills me!


I will probably be there, although in a spectator role this year since I don't exactly know if I will be ready or not, but who knows. I just located a guy who will do some serious training with me at home so we shal see.

Nevermind- 190lbs! I could wander over to the old land of cheese and kick your a$$ anytime!!!:D

[MightyB]

I would like to try my hand at San Shou someday. Anyway, I'm about 190lbs, so I doubt we would ever end up facing each other. Too bad.

I'll stand on my tippi-toes and puff my chest out. ;)

Seriously, I hope to be able to meet some of you there. We can get drunk, insult women, and get thrown out of Cleveland. We can also eat chicken feet together for dim sum on Sunday. They have a great Chinese Restaurant in this Chinese Market that's not too far from the tourney site.



Well, it's about that time that I go home, see you guys tomorrow.

[Nevermind]

R5A- Bring it on, Jabroney! I cross train in Tae Bo. So if I can't beat you, I can **** sure outrun you! :D

Mighty B- Welcome to my signature, buddy!

[red5angel]

"R5A- Bring it on, Jabroney! I cross train in Tae Bo. So if I can't beat you, I can **** sure outrun you!"

You're on sister!!!!


"Mighty B- Welcome to my signature, buddy!"

You mean your going to wait until he is old and blind and then push your arm through him?

[Nevermind]

R5A-Them's is fightin' words!

"You mean your going to wait until he is old and blind and then push your arm through him?"


:confused:

[red5angel]

heh, a Shaw brothers reference, can't remember if it wa sthe same movie as your tag but I am pretty sure it is. The blind white haired guy he kills by shoving his fist through his torso...

and my favorite kungfu flick ever.

[Nevermind]

Gotcha! I was thinking the same thing. Just didn't know which movie.

[red5angel]

By the way, I don't know if you are a Shaw brothers fan but I am trying to find out the title of the one where the guy is drunk most o fthe time and carries around of of those big ceramic jugs. I don't think it's kid with the golden arm...

[Nevermind]

Well, the character Hai To in Kid With The Golden Arm does carry one and he is drunk throughout the movie, but there are a ton of films with characters like that. So you would have to be more specific. I do consider myself a Shaw Brothers Guru. :p

[Taomonkey]

OK here's my answer, and I know some of you guys out there will definately not agree, but the science is correct.

I would keep my center, and let him instigate, for him (or anyone for that matter)to begin his attack he must move off balance (yin energy) my counter is able to move on balance (yang),,to the untrained it may look as if I statred the attack, but I wait until his thought of attack begins. If there are many witnesses I may even let him get a little further so I can avoid any paper work, but in essence nothing comes forward. But I will take his feet, then his sight, if he raises anything his feet will be the last to see the ground. A real fight is very different from sparring, where it is a game, fainting, looking for openings, counter attacks, these are for the judges, in a fight, where the atacker means me harm, nothing comes forward.

???????guys tell em more about this tournament in Cleveland, as my teacher has a large group and several instructors in that area.
they often take their under 18 students to this type of event, and I would like to know what schools are represented there.

peace out

[TaoBoy]

Put up your fence - raise your arms in a non-threatening manner. Try to diffuse the situation. Talk the guy down a little. Make him feel a little more comfortable like you really don't want to fight. Now, if you really have to fight and you have reduced his adrenalin via conversation you can more easily sucker-punch him.

First things first - if you can talk your way out of a situation - do it!
If you have to fight - set him up - talk him down then smack him up side the head.
If he touches your fence - it's on - smack him!


"You move first. I arrive first."

[MightyB]

guys tell em more about this tournament in Cleveland, as my teacher has a large group and several instructors in that area.


It's Sifu John Irving's tournament. It's in downtown Cleveland at some college near the Ball Park where the Indians play (don't know the stadium's name). Your Sifu could just call Sifu John Irving and get all the particulars. A lot of people go there. It started pretty small, but it's growing. They have San Shou, Shuai Jou, Open hand forms, weapons forms, push hands, continuous sparring, and more.

[red5angel]

Nevermind, ok, I bet it is Kid with the Golden arm then, it has been a while since I have seen it.

Taomonkey good points. I don't usually worry too much about witnesses, first if there are plenty I will make it plain I am not instigating a fight. I am also one of those that encourage running like hell after you are done fighting. Sometimes the law isn't always right.

Taoboy - true but this thought experiment has gone past the point ofrecovery, you know the guy is going to fight you.

[Taomonkey]

r5a

"I am also one of those that encourage running like hell after you are done fighting."

Great point, since there is always a lawyer out there who sues the victim for something like throwing hot coffee on the perp while he robs your store.

I have a whole series of techniques I show my mid level students where the action is quick, walk in walk out, where your in the car before the guy realises why he is bleeding, and hurt. Also keeps his friends out of it.

[red5angel]

Taomonkey, exactly! I am not condoning the hit and run tactic of vigilanteism, just that if you are forced into a fight and there are no witnesses or no one to identify you, get the hell out because you never know what will happen in our justice system.

[Oso]

I went in 99. Fought in the continuous sparring and was pretty
dissappointed.

It would be really f'n cool to meet some of you guys there this
year.

[ricksitterly]

In the fight situation you are referring to, standing face to face, and you don't know if this person can fight or not, I would attack immidiately and without warning. I do not take part in shouting and screaming and the usual "pushing and shoving match" you often see before a fight. That is macho bull$%** that's best left in high school and for people who dont know how to fight. If you're going to fight this person, you're going to fight. Fight or dong fight(run away), dont play with the situation. When someone is getting in my face, I show them exactly what theyre getting into. I usually throw a straight punch, fast and hard, directly at one of their eyes. If this person knows how to fight, the only thing waiting and taking the "cautious" approach will do for you is get you hit. I never let someone take the first hit on me. I dont want to get hit at all! You NEVER KNOW how fast someone is or what they know, and you may not be able to block or evade their attack if you let them make the first move. Blasting someone good before things get hot can often end the confrontation right there. Also this puts the enemy on the defensive, and worrying about their own well being, as opposed to thinking about how they're going cause you harm. But it's just my opinion, I could be wrong. If I were more cautious and reluctant to fight, I might have avoided a lot of trouble I've had in the past, but then again, I also might've had a few extra scars by now.